The Instigator
HunterBrown38
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
retroz
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Should there be stricter gun laws?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/6/2016 Category: Politics
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 482 times Debate No: 84614
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (0)
Votes (0)

 

HunterBrown38

Pro

I'll keep this opening statement relatively short and react upon further responses: regarding the numerous instances of mass gun violence and mass shooting in the United States, it seems fairly reasonable to at least provide stricter gun laws in order to provide the American people with a better sense of security and safety. It has been statistically proven that countries that control less guns have less gun violence. Knowing that information alone, shouldn't that be sufficient enough to persuade right-wing conservatives? Not necessarily suggesting that we should ban guns entirely, but at least make it more difficult in order to obtain guns only seems fair after the recent events and thousands upon thousands who have been killed via gun violence.
retroz

Con

Pre-case analysis- The topic is in question format... Thus, there is a shared BoP for this topic.

As my opponent did I will keep my opening case short...

Internationally, an increase in the strictness in gun laws has been shown not to reduce crime, but to increase violent crime. On top of this, a more rigorous background check process would not be effective because a person who's background check is "clean" can purchase a gun and go commit a crime and that background check would have done nothing.

Plus, an increase in the strictness of laws just creates a larger demand for a black market. Which is an unregulated exchange of weapons that in essence contradicts the whole point in stricter gun laws.

But there is one role model country that we can all look at, Switzerland... Almost all adult males (excluding felons) are legally required to own a firearm and receive training. Gun crime is non-existent and the total crime rate is .1%.

And my opponent is over exaggerating the amount of gun deaths...
In fact, Guns are not a major cause of death in the United States, if we look at 2013 we can see this...

There were 2,596,993 deaths in 2013… the top 10 causes of death; none of which were homicide; were 73.5% of those deaths. 11,208 gun deaths occurred that year… So less than 1% of all deaths in 2013 were that of gun violence.

Source: CDC

Debate Round No. 1
HunterBrown38

Pro

Considering there has only been 1 mass shooting in Australia since they removed guns from the people in 1996, that's just one of many reasons as to why stricter laws does work. You mentioned Switzerland as an example of how more guns wouldn't be harmful, but Switzerland currently ranks second in the world among gun related deaths. Only behind the United States. Now, mentioning countries that provide more than their fair share of guns to the people, you provided Switzerland which is currently ranked third in the world for guns per capita and the United States is first; second being Yemen. Between 2001 and 2013 there have been roughly 407,000 American deaths caused by gun violence. Mathematically, that would be 31,307 deaths per year via guns. It has been very clearly shown that guns are very much apart of crime and murder through numerous mass shootings and statistics to back it up even further. I'm not entirely sure that after we had circa 400 mass shootings in 2015 alone, it would be wise to oppose stricter gun laws. We're already number one in the world among guns per capita and we're obviously being put in cross-hairs regardless of where you're at. Whether you're at elementary school, church on a Sunday morning, or trying to catch the new Batman film. No matter the circumstances, there is very much a possibility that someone will have a gun and you could easily be caught at the wrong place at the wrong time. It could easily be you or I next time America hears about innocent lives taken via guns. As for the black market, drug gangs and mobsters; they buy guns in mass numbers. The guns they buy are either lost guns or purchased via the Internet. Easily you could resolve this issue by placing stricter laws on the selling and distribution of guns, while keeping track of where all guns sold end up going.

http://www.cnn.com...
http://www.abc.net.au...
retroz

Con

"You mentioned Switzerland as an example of how more guns wouldn't be harmful, but Switzerland currently ranks second in the world among gun related deaths."

Actually, Venezuela is the second in total gun deaths in the world... "Venezuela " Gun Facts, Figures and the Law". Gunpolicy.org. University of Sydney School of Public Health. Retrieved 2014-01-27

"Only one mass shooting in Australia since they removed guns in 1996"
The lack of mass shootings in Australia can be explained by total happiness... Australia ranked 10th in total happiness.

But total crime since the gun ban has been disastrous... Australia-wide, homicides are up 3.2 percent, Australia-wide, assaults are up 8.6 percent; Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent!). In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now up 300 percent
http://www.snopes.com...

guns and gun homicides are not correlated... Look at Germany: Guns 25 million: 30 guns per 100 people: gun homicide 158... Washington Post

"As for the black market, drug gangs and mobsters; they buy guns in mass numbers. The guns they buy are either lost guns or purchased via the Internet. Easily you could resolve this issue by placing stricter laws on the selling and distribution of guns, while keeping track of where all guns sold end up going."

This statement is ignorant... The definition of a black market is "an illegal traffic or trade in officially controlled or scarce commodities" Thus, because it is illegal, it cannot be controlled... Thus, laws would have no effect and by limiting guns the black market would grow. Thus, making it completely useless to limit guns because the black market would then control an unregulated supply of guns.

"It has been very clearly shown that guns are very much apart of crime and murder through numerous mass shootings and statistics to back it up even further."
I've already shown that guns are not a major cause of death in the United States
Debate Round No. 2
HunterBrown38

Pro

Your sources are false my friend. Snopes is a satirical website and utilizing any facts retrieved from there is just about as useful as facts from The Onion and the research conducted by the University of Sydney School of Public Health was carried out by students at the school. Which, my number was given per million not total deaths. Your attempt at refuting my point was a completely different angle at the same argument. As for the remark for happiness in Australia, couldn't that be a direct result of national increased moral after the incredible drop in mass shootings? Consider correlation and causation on this one.
It has been statistically proven that there is very much a correlation that, simply put, more guns will likely lead to more gun violence. In nearly every category of gun violence, America reigns supreme amongst the First world and it's no comparison. Even a state-by-state level, the states with the most gun laws see the fewest instances of gun violence.
http://www.nationaljournal.com...
Back to black market, I pointed out the indirect affect on the results on preventing this to happen. The laws wouldn't stop them directly, but would make it absolutely more difficult to place guns in there hands considering the guns they possess are either lost or obtained via the Internet. You could easily prevent this by keeping a tighter leash on when and where guns go by following up on the sales of the guns.
Lastly, I never said guns were a major cause of death in the United States. Compared to the rest of the world it is, but my argument lies with gun violence and crime, which is not disputable. America has around 400 mass shootings last year alone, and you believe that gun violence isn't an issue in America? I'm all for individuals wanting to keep their guns, which I'm assuming you have guns, but eventually selfish wants isn't a good enough reason to allow gun violence to continue
retroz

Con

I guess you are not familiar with DDO rules, the last round is not for new arguments/rebuttals/evidence as I would not have time to refute it and get my voters round in, and you would not have time to refute my rebuttal... It's for fairness sake

IGNORE EVERYTHING MY OPPONENT JUST SAID

So on to voters:
Pro Arguments- mass shootings in the US (evidence (CNN says 90 in US, 292 in the world not 400)not supported by source provided...), violence in the US, stricter gun laws would reduce crime, guns are a major cause of death, Australia, gangs and mobsters buy guns in mass numbers (claimed to be resolvable by increasing strictness)
Con Arguments- strictness creates demand for a black market, increasing strictness increases crime, Switzerland

Points refuted or left unsupported PRO- Guns are a major cause of death (refuted), Australia (refuted), gangs + mobsters(refuted), stricter gun laws reduce crime (unsupported)
Points refuted or left unsupported CON- increasing strictness increases crime (unsupported)

Final points (dropped by opponent)- Mass Shootings in the US (not supported by source provided)
Final points (dropped by opponent)- Black Market, Switzerland

So, if you are judging this debate look at the Final points, The Con has 2 unrefuted points, stricter gun laws will increase the Black Market and the example of Switzerland. The Pro has the fact of Mass shootings in the US (which is different than the source provided by a large margin) and stricter laws will reduce mass shootings, in theory.

So judges, The Con ought to win based on the fact that side has more unrefuted points.
Debate Round No. 3
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