Should transgender people be allowed to use the bathroom of the gender they choose to identify with?
Debate Rounds (3)
Okay. I don't believe that trans-genders should use the bathroom with the gender they choose to identify with because it could raise a lot of problems. My first reasoning for this is because people can abuse it. My second reasoning is, young girls could be going in the bathroom with men. Young innocent girls could get molested or hurt by a man because they were aloud in the girls room. My third reasoning is the people privacy. With this issue, ladies, and even men might feel like their privacy is being violated, etc.
- This is true, People can abuse the privilege. Is that a good basis to not allow something to be legal? People abuse medicine, alcohol, food, spouses, themselves, etc.. The possibility for abuse is not a valid reasoning to not allow something to happen. To combat abuse, you set up protocols, guidelines and clear consequences in the event someone is caught abusing the privilege.
Reasoning two: "Young girls could get molested or hurt by a man."
- This statement like the first is also true girls can get molested in a restroom. Now girls can get molested at home, school, daycare, friends house, taken from the street, etc.. similar to the first reason you cant, not, allow something because a small danger COULD be present. Statistics show that an overwhelming amount of sexual assaults of minors occur via someone in there close circle. Strangers come no where near the family in this regard. So in reality the chances of a young girl getting sexually assaulted in a public restroom by a Transgender male identifying as a female are very low. Chances of a unknown straight male pretending to be a women to molest your child in a restroom is also very low.
1. When would a parent allow a "young girl" to go to a public restroom alone? I have gone into women bathrooms with my young sisters just to make sure there okay. Most parents wont allow a young female child out of there sight in public let alone in a busy public restroom.
2. The trouble one would have to go through to sexually assault a young girl in a public restroom make it a very bad place to attempt it. You cant control the traffic for one. Then assuming the young girl is alone you will have to know when the parent would suspect something; and that's only in the instances a parent doesn't take there young girl to the restroom themselves. Child Molesters crave control, a public restroom is not a controllable environment.
Reasoning three: "People privacy...might feel like privacy is being violated."
- This is not a valid argument either. Men and women share bathrooms all the time in the home with no problems.
- Public women restrooms have dividers around every stall, privacy is not an issue. I doubt there will be an increase of people climbing over dividers to get a look at the transgender male trying to pee like a women.
- And for the men's room. Anyone who uses a male restroom knows the unwritten rules. when you use the urinal you keep your eyes forward, and when applicable you leave an empty urinal in between you and the next man. Now as I stated in response to your first reasoning there must be guidelines and consequences. Here is an example of both in practice. If a man is caught looking at the genitals of another man that is instant grounds for at the minimum a verbal exchange, and not a nice one either, or at the max a physical altercation. Men wont and don't care if a women comes in a bathroom while there in it.
So to sum this all up your reasons are real reasons but they are not reasons that should be stopping a person who is identifying as a women to use a women's restroom. Furthermore they are absolutely not a reason to pass a law banning it either. I'm okay if you don't want to pass a law that allows it. However it would be a greater injustice to pass a law that makes it illegal. People must come to the understanding that our world is changing.
Thank you and I will end it here
First let me point out that getting molested isn't a "small danger." Getting molested is one of the worst things that could happen in a girls life. It can cause them to be afraid of men for the rest of their lives, they could be scared to just go out in public in general, etc.
I do agree with you, people do abuse many things, but what the perverts out there who are going to pose as a woman and go into the girls restroom? Sure they might do something about it AFTER the girl is molested. They would say, "Its not to late! we can stop this from happening again." But it is to late, the damage is already done to the first victim.
And your view and my view on "young girls" is different. I'm not just talking about a toddler, I'm talking about teens too. Teens who can go out by themselves, and go into the restroom by themselves. Not all perverts are attracted to a toddler. About 44% of rape victims are under 18.
15 out of 16 rape victims get away. 61% of those rapes aren't reported to the police. This gives a high chance of a rapist getting free in a public restroom.
"Men and women share bathrooms all the time in the home with no problems."
Well yeah! people feel safe in their own home. No one is going to think that someone in their family is going to sexually assault them.
"Public women restrooms have dividers around every stall, privacy is not an issue."
What about when those women step out of those dividers? The dividers aren't going to protect them from the man causing these acts.
" I doubt there will be an increase of people climbing over dividers to get a look at the transgender male trying to pee like a women."
I-I don't even know what to say to this statement. I guess I agree, even though I don't think people would ever do this.
In regards to the second point. I am glad you narrowed it down to "perverts out there who are going to pose as a woman and go into the girls restroom" because right now in this very moment what is stopping that particular pervert from doing it. Even as we speak that could happen with out any political intervention. If anything, allowing transgender males identifying as a female to use a female restroom would raise awareness about a pedophile possibly dressing as a women for ill means. Thus lowering the chances it could happen. By making it legislature that Transgenders CANT use either bathroom, does nothing to prevent, or even lower the possibility that a man dressing as a women for the purposes of molestation will go in a female bathroom. I could argue that it would lower peoples guard into thinking that since its illegal no man will do that and cause young females to be less aware of the danger of possibly being molested in a public restroom.
With that said I think allowing it will raise awareness of the possible danger therefore reducing the chance a young female will fall prey to that type of predator.
I stand corrected on my view of young girls. I am aware that teens fall prey as well. and you are correct in saying not all predators are attracted to toddlers.
On the sharing of the home bathroom, I was actually shocked you stated "No one is going to think that someone in their family is going to sexually assault them." since 3 out of 4 adolescents who have been sexually assaulted were victimized by someone they knew well. Also only 14% of children who suffered sexual abuse were violated by an UNKNOWN perpetrator. Lastly 60% of children are sexually abused by someone in their social circle. Hence, the phrase "Stranger Danger" is misleading. So one could conclude that you should be more scared of being assaulted by a family member in your own bathroom rather than fear a man dressed as a women in a public bathroom. So no people should not feel safe at their own home, specifically young girls.
In regards to the dividers, I am under no delusion that the dividers will protect against an attack but what they will do is give a since of privacy while using the facility. When you ask about stepping out of the dividers, I'm confused because what privacy do you expect when your just in a bathroom, a public restroom no less. You are not required to be the only person in there unless it has only one stall. When you are just standing around or in the bathroom but not using it I don't know what privacy you expect. Are people just not supposed to be allowed to look at you?
And you agree with my last point however silly it may be.
So in closing there presents no real increase of danger. Meaning the danger that exist now would still exist after the change. There is no real decrease of privacy. Meaning that the same privacy you have now you will have after the change. Plus there is actually a automatic rise in awareness of possible dangers in the restrooms if transgenders are allowed to use the opposite facility as the birth gender. Making Laws to discriminate against a particular group of people is form of segregation. I wont compare this to the segregation of blacks, Jews, Etc.. but this is a form of segregation by excluding transgender from using the restroom they choose. When transgender men identifying as a female want to use a female restroom they do it out of safety a lot of times because men believe it or not actually physically assault transgender men. Now I'm not saying there needs to be laws written to allow or disallow. What I'm saying is we all have the intuition to know when a real Transgender is in the restroom to just do there business and move on. We owe them the respect to just leave them alone and let them move on.
Again by not allowing Transgenders to use the restroom the identify with does not raise the chances of any of your original 3 reasoning's from happening. Since that is the case I don't see a problem with allowing transgenders to use the bathroom they identify with.
You have given a well written argument and I appreciate the opportunity you have given me to speak against your views peacefully, honestly, and respectfully.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by SkyLeach 5 months ago
|Agreed with before the debate:||-||-||0 points|
|Agreed with after the debate:||-||-||0 points|
|Who had better conduct:||-||-||1 point|
|Had better spelling and grammar:||-||-||1 point|
|Made more convincing arguments:||-||-||3 points|
|Used the most reliable sources:||-||-||2 points|
|Total points awarded:||0||0|
Reasons for voting decision: Again with this, as in several other debates lately. Con was straw-manning and slipery-sloping all of the opposition arguments. Pro, however, addressed only the arguments of con and never presented a position which is required for burden of proof. Arguing against the negative reasons doesn't do a thing to present a positive case, at best it simply stays slightly negative. I can't give anyone points on this.
You are not eligible to vote on this debate
This debate has been configured to only allow voters who meet the requirements set by the debaters. This debate either has an Elo score requirement or is to be voted on by a select panel of judges.