The Instigator
Herooftheyear
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Coveny
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points

Should transsexuals with penises use the girls restrooms or locker rooms?

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Post Voting Period
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/28/2017 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,037 times Debate No: 102264
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (30)
Votes (0)

 

Herooftheyear

Con

I don't think gender dysphoria should be encouraged just because someone thinks they are something that they are not. I will not call a cat a dog even if the cat thinks its a dog. Your mental state doesn't or shouldn't effect reality nor will i let it.
Coveny

Pro

You will call a cat a cat even if it thinks it’s a dog. In other words, you think it’s binary (better known as the black and white fallacy) even though there is a mountain of evidence to the contrary. You don’t care, fingers in your ears you scream at the world. So I expect this to a debate where I post facts, and you post emotions. So I’ll start in with the facts now:

Females can be XX and males be X (insects)

Females with ZW and males ZZ (birds)

You can have be female because of a warm environment, and be male because of a cool environment (reptiles)

You can have female because they lost their penis in a sword fight (some flatworms)

You can have males turn female because there are no other males (parrotfish and clownfish)

You can have males pretend to be females so they can mate with females (cuttlefish, bluegills, others)

Or one of thousands of sexes (slime, mold, some mushrooms)

Just want to look at humans though, ok

Born with female chromosomes but you have 5-alphareductase deficiency so you have a penis

Born with female chromosomes but you have SRY gen so you have a penis

Born with male chromosomes but you are insensitive to androgens so you have a vagina

Born with male chromosomes but missing the SRY gen so you have a vagina

Born with just an X chromosome, or three X chromosomes.

Born with an extra Y chromosomes

And this is just at the chromosome level, this hasn’t even touched on psychology. THAT is reality, which doesn’t seem to be effecting your mental state. We emulate our parents (both of them) when we are growing up. Boys play with dolls, girls play with army men. This is completely natural because it’s a spectrum. Very few people are completely straight, or completely homosexual, and there are so many variations in the middle. It’s not binary, or even close to binary physically or mentally.

Now I’m going to call out just how sexist you are being with this post. You just mentioned girls not boys. If you really cared about children this wouldn’t just be about what you view as male being around girls, it would be BOTH what you view as male being around girls, AND what you view as female being around boys. But it’s, not is it? Because as a male you only see females as sex objects.

On that same point, please show me the statistics where transgenders have assaulted children in bathrooms because I’ve never seen them. I have however seen a LOT statistics on priests who were STRONGLY against homosexuals and transgenders like you who did have sex with children, I mean seriously it’s become a weekly occurrence. Those who seem to be the strongest against transgender, seem to be the ones who like to have sex with children the most. If you actually want to protect your daughter (because you don’t care about your son) then keep them away from priests. Oh and politicians they seem to like having sex with children as well. Here are a few links on pedophile priests I can get you a BUNCH more if you like. (and no it’s not just one denomination)

http://www.joemygod.com...

http://news.bbc.co.uk...

http://religionnews.com...

http://stopbaptistpredators.org...

But it’s not about any actual danger, is it? I mean you watch lesbian porn and think that’s hot, but the idea of two guys going at it that creeps you out. And the idea that a guy would willing give up his “power” and “pretend” to be a woman… well you think there must be something wrong with him. Just own it, own that sexism, and quit trying to disguise it as being protective.

Lastly I’ll throw some medical articles on how it's not binary in for you to ignore. (facts can be so annoying)

Stanford Medical - http://scopeblog.stanford.edu...

Harvard - http://sitn.hms.harvard.edu...

Nature - http://www.nature.com...

Science Daily - https://www.sciencedaily.com...

Debate Round No. 1
Herooftheyear

Con

Simply understanding labels of other animals sexes doesn't mean you can then transfer them in an argument about Humans.
There are 3 sexes that can exist with in the human Genes. They are Man, Woman, and Hermaphrodite. Males produce sperm, Females produce eggs, Hermaphrodite can do either or neither. Knowing the difference is in important especially when Doctors need to diagnose a patient.
Now allow me get back on subject. One of my fears (as you seem to sweep under the rug) is that predators can and have used this to take advantage of your 'acceptance movement' situation. here is a reference http://www.dailywire.com...

Another important point is culture. Only 0.3 percent of the United States population is comprised of trans people yet this 'acceptance movement' is willing to put years of tradition in the trash based on minority within a minority that has a suicide rate of 41 percent. If we continue to encouraged a mental disorder more people will suffer a loss of a son or daughter. This will grow beyond bathrooms and trans people all together. The Truth is that Trans people have been using the bathroom of their choice for years and no one cared. Millions of dollars have been donated to allow gay people to marry. After getting that, they now needed a new subject to focus on because if they don't, they no longer will receive money, So now they call themselves lbgtq. Also i disagree with private businesses being FORCED to go along with this absurdity rather than letting the free market drive their choices.
Coveny

Pro

You say that 3 sexes can exist with the human genes, but if you define sex by the genes that’s patently false. There are roughly 25 different know gene variations, on top of that there are situation (listed above) where you have the “male” genes, but female genitals, and vice versa. Where do those fall in your three sexes? The answer is… they don’t. And that’s my point, and the subject of this debate.

Let’s address your fears… again. Ok transgenders comprise 0.3 percent of the population, and you’ve found five times where a transgender person may or may not have done something to a child in the bathroom. Even if I give you that, and I double it, nay triple it, you know what let’s just say it’s actually 100 hundred times more prevalent than you can prove and 500 children are assaulted in bathroom by transgender people. The Vatican alone consistently has 400 cases reported against them annually.

http://www.cbsnews.com...

That’s just the Catholics, and the rest of the various theist groups dominate the pedophilia arena, and have for decades.

http://www.patheos.com...

So if you actually have a fear that your child will be molested, then the people in dresses you should be worrying about (by a factor of 100) are the priests. To say that transgender people can’t get away with sexual molestation like theist can is a HUGE understatement. I can show you case after case where accusations were made, they moved the priest to a fresh set of children, and no charges were filed. Up until the last decade or so the church actually defended it, because the bible does not have any passages stating it’s “wrong” to have sex with a child. Some priests even go so far as to blame it on the child.

http://thefreethoughtproject.com...

As for the 41% suicide rate your comment that it’s a mental disorder is the sole reason for that. Our whole society has a culture that does not accept them, and abuses them. But if it really was about transgender, then the rate wouldn’t drop by 57% when they have affirming parents. Or having legal documents consistent with their gender identity wouldn’t drop it by 44%. If they experience less transgender hate they are 66% less likely to commit suicide. Your attitude is literally killing people.

https://thinkprogress.org...

So, you went from them sucide to them just doing it for the money. Really? They are still fighting for the right to marry, that battle is NOT won. They are still fighting against conversion therapy, that battle is not over. They are still fighting against the hate from people like you who consider them a mental disorder, obviously that battle isn't over. They don’t “need” to find anything to fight to spend money on, but I’ll tell you who does, politicians. They get up there and thump their bibles and act all sanctimonious to get you vote, and distract you from the real and proven pedophiles in this country… theists.

Debate Round No. 2
Herooftheyear

Con

Everyone who reads this please note, I haven't insulted nor shamed him once. I can't say the same about him.
Aristotle once said the first person to name call losses the argument. This is what the liberal progressive Left does automatically when confronted with an opposing option, Quickly to label him or her in order to create a superficial villain.

Your genetics determine if you produce eggs or sperm which includes the determining factor of your sex, male or female.
I'm sorry you still can't understand that. Chromosomes are arbitrary to this argument. Males and Females aka Man and Women is determine if your body is build to produce eggs or sperm. (exceptions are mutations)

Labels love to get in the way. So maybe we should put Egg Dispenser and Sperm Dispenser on the bathrooms so people can't morph reality into whatever they want?
I encourage people to be themselves but not people who have real problems statistically speaking.

Yes. Why do people like you love using the power of the government to force your beliefs on others instead of making a convincing argument for the people? Its always AstroTurf and name calling and superficial factoids.
Coveny

Pro


Everyone else reading this please note he has insulted and shamed roughly 3 million people with this post. He has dismissed their feelings as a mental disorder, feels that it is absurd to have to service them like everyone else, and equated them to a DOG! He has also stated their motives to only be monetary. I find all of that VERY insulting, and an attempt to shame other human beings.



Did I call him sexist because of this… yes. Is that “name calling”? No. When you stereotype sex, you are being sexist, stating the facts is not name calling. Or as he put it, it’s calling him a dog… because he’s a dog.



I’m not a liberal or a conservative, I’m not left or right. Check my debates. I’m advocating guns, and corporal punishment just as I am advocating freedom for all in this debate. Some people can’t understand you unless they put you in a box, and just because you want to do that doesn’t make it right.



Genes can’t and don’t determine male or female, neither do chromosomes, and neither do producing eggs or sperm. None of these things along determine male or female. The biggest example of this is when the Olympics tried to enforce gender on female athletes. You know what happened? They took it out because male and female aren’t binary. Science has proven this, the examples I’ve given prove this.



And we’re back to the insults. “people who have real problems”. Look, they don’t have problems you do. They are completely natural. Everything they are doing occurs all over nature in 1000s of different species… as I’ve already listed. But if we are going to go into changing the label on the bathroom why don’t we fix the problem and make individual bathrooms. I really don’t want to pee beside people like you.



Wait you are the one who wants to make it so that trans can’t go into the bathroom of their choosing. You are the one who wants to use the power of the government to force your beliefs on others. You want to play the victim now? Seriously? You acknowledge that they have been going into the bathroom of their choosing for decades without any laws. YOU are the one who wants to force your views. You are the person who loves to use the government to force your beliefs on others. They just want to be left alone, and have people stop saying they have a mental disorder, refuse them service, and equate them to dogs.


Debate Round No. 3
30 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by whiteflame 1 year ago
whiteflame
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>Reported vote: Cinnamon// Mod action: Removed<

4 points to Pro (S&G, Arguments), 3 points to Con (Conduct, Sources). Reasons for voting decision: Con doesn't do well at forming an argument but i disagree with pro because I know alot about this subject.

[*Reason for removal*] The voter doesn"t explain any of the point allocations. It is not enough to say that one side didn"t form an argument well without explanation of what that means, or how the other side managed. Personal disagreement with one side is also not sufficient reason to award points.
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Posted by whiteflame 1 year ago
whiteflame
*******************************************************************
>Reported vote: gomergcc// Mod action: Removed<

5 points to Pro (Arguments, Sources). Reasons for voting decision: Con gave no real argument on why they shouldn't only makes one claim from a source with a bias towards Con. Pro listed humanitarian reasons and sites a wide range of sources

[*Reason for removal*] (1) Arguments are insufficiently explained. The voter is required to specifically assess arguments made by both sides, which requires more than just stating "listed humanitarian reasons" for Pro. (2) Sources are insufficiently explained. Merely having more sources is not sufficient reason to award these points. It must be explained how those sources were higher quality.
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Posted by Coveny 1 year ago
Coveny
I didn't say you couldn't say them, but don't expect me not to call you sexist because of them. When I do you cry about what a poor little victim you are, you didn't say anything mean, and I'm just picking on poor little innocent you. I show you how that's not the case, and how you started it... now you flip flop to I'm butthurt. This is so common amongst you snowflakes. You complain about others complaining. You cry because you can't be racist and sexist anymore. Boo hoo, your male privilege pass got revoked. But remember you always have your second place trophy flag...
Posted by Herooftheyear 1 year ago
Herooftheyear
Maybe you would like to explain to me how i'm suppose to empathize when words don't offend me?
I would love to know why my words are limited in fear of offending someone else especially when i can't feel bad if someone insults me. Stop telling me what i can and can't say. i seriously someone is crying their eyes out because i say the you are retarded or thats gay. boo hoo's.
Posted by Herooftheyear 1 year ago
Herooftheyear
Maybe you would like to explain to me how i'm suppose to empathize when words don't offend me?
I would love to know why my words are limited in fear of offending someone else especially when i can't feel bad if someone insults me. Stop telling me what i can and can't say. i seriously someone is crying their eyes out because i say the you are retarded or thats gay. boo hoo's.
Posted by Herooftheyear 1 year ago
Herooftheyear
That's because i'm a transsexual and know what i am talking about. I bet you don't have one trans friend either.
Posted by Coveny 1 year ago
Coveny
The guy who says "I haven't insulted nor shamed him once. I can't say the same about him." is mad because I proved you lair, and say's I'm butthurt? Dude I didn't cry when you talked smack, don't cry foul when I return fire. Own it, like you own that homophobic mental disorder, and deserve for man love that you don't want to admit to.
Posted by missmedic 1 year ago
missmedic
Like all people, all they want is love and to be accepted, what is wrong with you that you don't want that too.
Posted by Herooftheyear 1 year ago
Herooftheyear
mental state*
Posted by Herooftheyear 1 year ago
Herooftheyear
Hey, How about you pseudo-intellectuals google Race and intelligence. Coveny do you have a coccydynia?
Bunch of loblolly, Always getting butthurt. You having a problem with the word disorder? 'disrupt the systematic functioning or neat arrangement of' which fits trans people metal state. I don't need science nor links to define a definition.
No votes have been placed for this debate.