The Instigator
J3ssi143
Con (against)
Losing
2 Points
The Contender
Defro
Pro (for)
Winning
6 Points

Should we have to do 3 debates before we can participate in voting?

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
Defro
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/7/2014 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 448 times Debate No: 56234
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (0)
Votes (2)

 

J3ssi143

Con

I think that it is ridiculous that just because I haven't participated in three debates that I am not allowed to vote.

Even if I don't have experience I know how to read, and also have opinions about what a read. I am waiting for people to rebuttal or accept my challenge and am bored and would like to vote on others debates.
Defro

Pro






Rebuttal:

"Even if I don't have experience I know how to read, and also have opinions about what a read."

-This statement alone proves that you are not qualified to vote. Voting is not about having opinions about what you read. In fact, when voting a debate, you must keep your opinions out of your RFD (explanation for your vote). If you have opinions, you are biased and thus, is not qualified to vote.



Reasons why the "3 debates before voting" system should be kept:

1. It inhibits mulit-accounting. If you could just straight up vote upon registering for this site, people can cheat. For example, if you lost this debate, but you want to win, you can cheat and make 5 new accounts and vote for you in this debate using their accounts. This is not fair.

2. It teaches how to vote. Many people do not know the guidelines to voting. Having gone through 3 debates, you will have read through RFDs for 3 debates and have a better understanding of how to vote.
Debate Round No. 1
J3ssi143

Con

Rebuttal:
1. Multiple Accounts.
In order to get voting privileges you have to: participate in three debates, and give your cell phone number. Now if people wanted to have the right to vote for their own debates they could make multiple accounts do three very quick debates with themselves and then vote. I think the cell phone confirmation should be enough because rarely do people have more then one personal cell phone.

2. It teaches how to vote. Who is to say that the voters were ever taught the correct way to vote? Not every person who votes on my debates will offer or have a valid RFD. It would not be that much work for DDO to set up a quick tutorial and explain some guidelines. Which they already have http://www.debate.org...


Just because I do not have experience one this site does not mean I am completely lacking in experience. I have read debates on here where my personal beliefs and opinions have been with pro but I would have given most of the seven points to con (pro would have got my who do you agree with before vote). Opinions on the debate don't have to be personal and no matter what you think it is with an opinion that you vote. If you did not have an opinion on:

  • Who had better conduct?
  • Who had better grammar and spelling?
  • Who made more convincing arguments? and
  • Who used the most reliable sources?

You would not be voting. Lets not forget that two of the seven points are for your opinion.
  • Who did you agree with before?
  • Who did you agree with after?

The subject has to be dealt with objectively, but you will form opinions on the debate itself.

If I were allowed to vote now:

1. I would get more learning experience because I would be reading/following more debates. This experience coupled with the voting guide lines and previous debate experience would help me in my endeavours to become a better voter and a more active member in DDO's growing debate community.

2. It would help others because I am an insightful person at times, I like to believe, and I can help them grow and improve their debate skills as well.

Debate Round No. 2
J3ssi143

Con

I read the voting rules after I posted, and I am a girl, so herself, she, ext.

If someone was going through the effort to cheat the system 1. they wouldn't mind waiting 3 days seeing as most voting periods, for debates I've seen at least, are 10. If someone is going to cheat and is that desperate to get points they will find a way. It doesn't matter what precautions you have put in place. To make arguments look real they simply need to go back to older debates or other sites and copy and paste and you would be none the wiser.

If it is as you say and they have the power to delete my vote if it is not up to standards then clearly their system doesn't work because people have not learnt. Plus if they are going to delete poorly summarized reviews anyway why not give beginners the vote. Maybe not on the more serious intellectual debates but at least let us get our toes wet without having to wait 2-3 weeks. I mean if "why Patrick Star destroyed Bikini bottom" is worthy of top notch, excperianced judges, I do not think many of us would come close to worthy to vote on some of the more profound and intellectual topics on this site.

There are many different ways to learn and some of us learn by doing. Trying stuff making mistakes and starting again. I feel that beginners should have a say and they may surprise you especially if it wont really effect the results if it was done incorrectly.

Thank you by the way. I had fun making my mistakes, I will take what I have learnt and grow from this. I hope you weren't too bored. :)

Jessica
Defro

Pro

"they wouldn't mind waiting 3 days seeing as most voting periods, for debates I've seen at least, are 10."

-Yes they would. Let's say you are winning debate with a 10 day voting period. But on the 8th day, someone votes against you and you are losing.

-It would also likely take a cheater more than 3 days. Their debates could get reported if it's a nonsense debate. Otherwise, the cheater would certainly have to work hard to write up an argument that looks legitimate. It is tedious and not as easy as you make it sound. This system does work to discourage people from creating multiple accounts and cheating. I myself was tempted to create another account but decided not to because of this, and I know other people as well.

-Furthermore, many people cannot provide their cell phone numbers because they don't have one or they live in a country where the phone service is not supported in this website (like me).

-For people who live in countries where their phones don't work for DDO, they must verify their account manually by contacting a monderator after 3 debates, in which he will view your profile and decide whether you are eligible or not. Mods can easily spot a nerf account and deny them voting privilages if their 3 debates were 1 round 5 minute debates with 3 days voting period.


"If it is as you say and they have the power to delete my vote if it is not up to standards then clearly their system doesn't work because people have not learnt."

-There will always be bad voters. It would be unrealistic for us not to expect improper RFDs. But they are very rare. Without this system, there would be much more bad voters. Voters who don't know how to vote and have never even been in a debate. How can you be a judge of a debate if you've had no experience debating? I've performed in piano competitions, and the judges are always proffessional judges who know how to play the piano and has been in competitions before as well.

-The primary purpose of this system is not to discourage bad voters from voting. There will always be bad voters. This system is to discourage people from creating multiple-accounts and cheating because if they do, they will come up with a valid RFD that moderators can't do anything about. But regardless of the validity of the RFD, it's still cheating because you're voting for yourself multiple times.


"There are many different ways to learn and some of us learn by doing. Trying stuff making mistakes and starting again."

-Unfortunately, the DDO community cannot risk this way of learning, because like you say, you "try stuff, make mistakes, and start again."

-We cannot afford a mistake. A mistake in voting can mean the win or the loss of a debater's debate. Just like I could not afford a mistake when dissecting my cat, because if I accidentally cut something I wasn't meant to, I can't glue it back together.
Debate Round No. 3
No comments have been posted on this debate.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by Cold-Mind 2 years ago
Cold-Mind
J3ssi143DefroTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
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Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:13 
Reasons for voting decision: Conduct goes to Con because links to round are not allowed.
Vote Placed by FuzzyCatPotato 2 years ago
FuzzyCatPotato
J3ssi143DefroTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:13 
Reasons for voting decision: Good debate. Conduct to Con cuz GDocs. Pro wins on better judging thru experience.