The Instigator
gonovice
Pro (for)
Losing
19 Points
The Contender
asian_invasion
Con (against)
Winning
22 Points

Should we pull troops out of Iraq?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/16/2007 Category: Politics
Updated: 6 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 3,105 times Debate No: 512
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (20)
Votes (11)

 

gonovice

Pro

It's hard to watch the news and watch the death rate climb to an all time high in Iraq. Having family go over there is even harder. I know that they did it for our country but I still hate that Bush made them feel that they had to. When we went over to Iraq I believed that it was for a good reason. Now I see that no good is being done and I feel that we have put our troops through enough. Some soliders feel that we still need to be over there, some don't. When we went to Iraq it was to help them form a democracy and get their country back on its feet.

They obviously don't want our help, if they did they would be using it. Instead, they kill eachother and Americans. Why are we putting our troops in danger when they don't need to be?

My theory is that every country needs to take care of itself, without every other countries help. It is their job not ours.
asian_invasion

Con

I will not contradict your argument that Iraq's initial invasion was not justified. However, I believe the point of this debate is to argue whether we should pull out of Iraq now. The Iraqi government DOES want our help. In fact, Nouri Maliki has expressed dismay over talks of America pulling out of Iraq.

You stated that Iraq's situation is not our job. It is our moral obligation to finish what we started. By going into Iraq and removing the infrastructure of power that was already there, we ignited a centuries old tension between the Sunni's and Shiites. Since we started this problem, it would not be right to just leave them at this time and leave the country in a chaos that was not there previously.

We must think about American reputation in the world. Our original message with the War on Terror was to make the world more secure and peaceful. However, Iraq has shown that we have actually increased conflict in the world. It would be hypocritical of us to say, "oh, we messed up. Sorry, here's your country back." It would be like breaking a little kid's toy and then handing it back and leaving. American image in the world, especially the Middle East, are what fuels the hate that fuels terrorism against the US.

We can further analyze the situation to see that Iraq cannot stand by itself. The IM is infiltrated, and cannot keep peace in the country without US help. While I am against the idea of a troop surge, pulling out troops completely would leave the Iraqi government with virtually no control. The situation in Iraq would degrade into anarchy and chaos. Remember the fact that we started this problem. Leaving the country in such a state is not the correct thing to do.

In summary, the arguments I have made in this round are:
1)It is the Moral obligation to finish what we started
2)If we leave the country in situation that it is in, only fuel US hate in the world
3)Iraq cannot stand on it's own without US help.

Finally, I would like to thank you for starting this debate. I am looking forward to the other two rounds.
Debate Round No. 1
gonovice

Pro

Thanks for accepting the challenge.

How is it our moral obligation to help someone who killed 3000 of our people? They killed us and they still are. What good are we doing over there? All we hear in the news is that there are a lot more suicide bombings going on. We don't hear the good that we're doing. Bush is trying to help people who are acting like they don't want it. And yea, we screwed up by reopening the fight between, the Sunnis and the Shiites, that is why America sucks. Hopefully, when we get a new president we won't have that problem anymore. But until then we have to pay for our mistakes. Pres. Bush isn't paying for it, all of our troops are.

America, to me, has the reputation of the country who likes to suck up to every other country. Alot of people hate us, and this war is increasing that number of people. We have shown that Iraq is causing very much confliction in the world and that IS OUR FAULT. But I don't think that it is our troops job to fix that conflict.

Maybe Iraq will have trouble running it's country but every country goes through that. American men and women don't deserve to die a horrible death because Iraq can't govern it's own people.

I hope to bring up many more arguments in the following rounds.

thanks again for accepting this.
-nikki
asian_invasion

Con

You say, "how is it our moral obligation to help someone who's killed 3000 of our troops." However, I would like to point out that it is the militias that are killing our troops, and we are helping the government of Iraq try to stabilize the militias. These two parties are not interchangeable.

If you have not realized, the violence in Iraq has gone down, especially after the troop surge. Therefore, your argument that we are doing nothing to bring about peace in Iraq is invalid.

You say that by opening up conflict in Iraq, this is our fault. If you can recognize this, do you not agree that we should clean up what we started? You say that Iraq can't govern it's own people, and it should not be up to American soldiers to help them, but our military presence removed the stability in the region. A pull out is not realistic now, as these problems eventually all tie back to the United States responsibility.

I would like to bring up a new argument: hegemonic stability theory. This states that as the most powerful nation in the world, the United States has a responsibility to spread world peace. Now, whether you believe in this is not of consequence in this debate. However, by launching a War on Terror, by heading a Coalition for freedom, the United States has accepted this role to the rest of the world. Ending it before our projects were finished would be like a President being elected, and then saying, "screw this job." It would damage US interests and image throughout the world enormously.

In summary, the US should preserve troop levels in Iraq because:
1) moral obligation to finish what we started
2) we are achieving a positive affect in decreasing violence in the region

thank you, and I look forward to the rest of this debate.
Debate Round No. 2
gonovice

Pro

If the government is trying to stop these militas then they are doing a sucky job. If they are helping people then why are people still dying? the iraqi people are suffering because of these two groups that are fighting because of us. We reopened a fight that is causing theirs and our people to die. Because of Bush we are all suffering. we are all losing loved ones. All we are doing is "helping" them kill eachother. If we would have never gone there in the first place then our people wouldn't be dead.

We made a horrible mistake, we started a fight between two groups. We are the ones to blame here. We are the ones who have to pay for this problem. All because we needed to "help". That is just great of us. I bet people in other countries are sitting there laughing at us, because we screwed up SO BADLY. It is about time that we all realize that we are not helping. War is not something that you can take lightly, as America is doing. We are jsut sending more troops. Maybe,it's time that President Bush gets off his high horse and starts to reevaluate whats going on over there.

I will respond to your other arguments but I have to get off the computer right now. Talk to you later.
-nikki
asian_invasion

Con

Yes, but less people are dying than before the troop surge. You say that the Iraqi people are suffering because of these two groups, however the key problem is that the Iraqi population mainly belongs to one of two groups. There isn't a battle between small groups of Shiites and Sunnis, it's an overall clash of the two ideologies. I'm not exonerating the Bush administration of any blame in the area. In fact, like I have stated before, I agree that the situation in Iraq is the US's fault. However, while other countries are pointing fingers at us, they will only do more so if we admit failure and pull out without completing the job. You stated, "all we're doing is sending more troops." If you have read the news, there are no further troop increases to Iraq, and the last main troop surge President Bush pushed through caused a noticeable decrease in violence. Clearly we are not just "helping them kill each other," but we are making a noticeable impact on peace in the region

Finally, I would like to recap what was addressed in this round:
1)Troop surge has decreased violence
2)Yes it is our fault, however this is no reason to simply cut and run.
3)Yes we are helping in the region, the violence would return to more than pre-surge levels if US troops were pulled back

Iraq may have been a mistake. However, it is a mistake that has been made. Just pulling back troops will only exacerbate the problems that our mistakes started. We should not focus on the fact that because this conflict should never have happened, we should not be involved in it. Only by looking to the future of Iraq, will there be progress.

Finally, I would like to thank you for this debate, I enjoyed it.
Debate Round No. 3
20 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by gonovice 6 years ago
gonovice
i guess you agree with me, or you would respond to that.
Posted by gonovice 6 years ago
gonovice
why not? are you afraid to admit that? i think that even you know that's true. so don't respond, but you could at least agree.
Posted by kels1123 6 years ago
kels1123
that doesnt even merit a response.
Posted by gonovice 6 years ago
gonovice
are you proud of the soldiers that are over there and raping the innocent girls?
Posted by gonovice 6 years ago
gonovice
good for you I guess. but I am sorry for offending you.
Posted by kels1123 6 years ago
kels1123
Youre right I do think my husband is great for being there. I also know that he does see what is going on there as the press is now even finally starting to report how much better things are now ... I am proud of my husband and every other soldier over there.
Posted by gonovice 6 years ago
gonovice
are you ignoring me kels?
Posted by gonovice 6 years ago
gonovice
did i insult him by saying hes deaf because he can't see what is really going on over there. that to me is true. how was it uncalled for. you obviously think that your husband is so great for being over there. and i don't even mean that offensivly. it's great that you support him. but maybe you both are either oblivious or in denial of the tragedy overt there. I'm sorry that i insulted him, maybe you won't believe that but I really do mean it. I hated it when I did believe in the war, people telling me that my dad was deaf because he did'nt hear what was realy happening. I am truly sorry for the insult. you can believe it or not but at least i said it and actually meant it this time.
Posted by kels1123 6 years ago
kels1123
noone said you dont know how I feel , someone said your comment was uncalled for . If you supposedly know how I feel , you should understand that was an offensive comment. You can say you disagree with what he feels , but dont insult my husband. He is over there right now and he is telling me each day what it is like. You dont have to agree , but dont insult him. I will not make comments about your dad , because to me he made a great sacrafice for our country and he is entitled to his opinion ...just as anyone else is. You cant insult anyone personally just because you do not agree with him, Its immature
Posted by gonovice 6 years ago
gonovice
I don't think that it's fair for you guys to tell me how I don't know how she feels, when I could have lost my dad over there. I know how everyone feels who has family over there, so don't any of you tell me how I don't know how she feels.
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Vote Placed by asian_invasion 3 years ago
asian_invasion
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