The Instigator
MelissaBlaze
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Emmarie
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Should we stop using male and female restrooms? Just have a single room for all?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/12/2016 Category: People
Updated: 11 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 380 times Debate No: 92638
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (6)
Votes (0)

 

MelissaBlaze

Pro

If we are to allow biological males to use the women's facilities and biological females to use the men's facilities, what is the reason to keep restrooms separate at all? Wouldn't we be better off just having one large restroom? This would end all debate about which room transgenders can use. Also, this would benefit women since there would be more open stalls available. I'm sure everyone has seen women waiting in a long line just to pee while there is rarely a line for men.
Emmarie

Con

The reason we should keep bathrooms separate is because sometimes females need a place to escape guys and "powder our noses." What does it mean to "powder our noses?" It means if we are "with" a member of the opposite sex, we can resort to the ladies room to chat with a friend about something personal, or just get away from a guy we like too much (to compose ourselves) or get away from a guy we don't like enough (to figure out how to let him down easy. This me seem like a petty reason to keep bathrooms separate, but many females made important decisions about the company they were in while in the sanctity of a ladies room. A more serious reason would be that a mom of a fussy infant needs a place to breastfeed in an environment with those of the same sex (or identify as such). Ladies rooms are more than spaces to poop or pee. We adjust our clothing, hair, faces, attitudes and children in them. We wouldn't be better off without separate bathrooms for the reasons that I sited.

As far as men's rooms is concerned, I have no idea what the ettiquette is like in one. I know I wouldn't feel comfortable watching men's backs leaning in to pee, knowing their hands were on their penis's. What about couples who are dating but haven't "done it"? Wouldn't a female be tempted to peek to know if she was interested in what he has to offer?

Having separate bathrooms may be a remedy for women who really have to "go", but it would also make guys have to wait longer.

If establishments are going to go through all the trouble of tearing down walls to make a single bathroom facility, they'd be better off adding a single toilet bathroom that is unisex. This bathroom would be able to be used by anyone - singly, and with a door that locks, so sexual assault wouldn't be an issue in one.
Debate Round No. 1
MelissaBlaze

Pro

If gender identity were no brought into this, then your argument would be 100% valid. Since gender identity is at the center of my argument, it kind of invalidates your reasoning. The odds of finding a man in the Lady's room are increasing due to this new idea of gender identity. I have a male friend who walked right into the lady's room in Target just to prove a point. Target employees told him he can use whichever restroom he wants. He is not trans gender nor does he identify as a female. So, my point is, if we are going to allow this, why should we continue to have separate restrooms? Men are going to use the Lady's room anyway. Why not make the best of the situation?
Emmarie

Con


Besides that fact that your friend is exasperating a controversial topic, transgender individuals make up an extremely small portion of the general population. Americans with disabilities make up a much larger percentage of the population, than individuals who identify as transgender. [1][2]and [3]There are laws in place to ensure that individuals with disabilities have accommodations in public places. [3]The cost to businesses must have been considerable when they needed to update their facilities to accommodate persons in wheelchairs or with impaired mobility. The amount that it would cost businesses to remodel bathrooms into unisex facilities with multi stalls would be astronomical. Page 29 shows typical costs of remodeling public bathrooms.[4] This would put a financial strain on businesses, when there are no laws that make it mandatory and also the idea of unisex bathrooms don’t have the wide support of the public, like the accommodations for those who are disabled have had.


My solution of adding one unisex bathroom who could accommodate anyone would be more cost effective and logical to serve a segment of the population that is an extremely small percentage of the population. [5]


Sources:

[1]https://www.google.com...

[2]https://www.resna.org...

[3]https://www.ada.gov...

[4]http://hvsdesignservices.com...

[5]http://www.lakecountrynow.com...

Debate Round No. 2
MelissaBlaze

Pro

Yes he was exasperating the topic, but he mainly wanted to see what Target employees would tell him. The fact that they let him use the women's room shows that we may be sharing the room with men, at least in Target, and we cannot do anything about it. I know that it can cost a lot to modify restrooms to accommodate people with disabilities, especially for small business owners. I have a close friend who was affected by this with his own business. The third room seems like a good compromise but this will cost more money than just changing the signs on the current rooms, and maybe adding a couple of urinals in what was the women's room. I suppose the would not even have to add the urinals, just change the signs. There would then be two restrooms that anyone can use for only a moderate cost to convert. Also, many trans genders hate the idea of a third room. They don't want to feel like they are being segregated.
Emmarie

Con

"The fact that they let him use the women's room shows that we may be sharing the room with men, at least in Target, and we cannot do anything about it," is not a scientific study. I would need much more evidence than your male friend entering a Target Women's room to convince me that this the norm on a wide spread basis.

The resolution of this debate is: "Should we stop using male and female restrooms? Just have a single room for all?" Single means ONE, not just changing the signs on Men's and Women's rooms. Had you posted the idea of changing the signs in the resolution or in R1 of the debate, I would not have accepted the challenge. Changing the resolution in the third and final round is not ethical.

I will address your argument for the sake of being a good sport, and speculate that if business owners merely changed the signs, genders would separate on their own for the most part, and give "looks" to anyone who "appeared" to be a member of the opposite sex for using the opposite bathroom of what they appear.

Even if your idea of changing the signs was viable, the cost would still be considerably higher than adding a single stall bathroom. Stalls would need to be added around all the urinals or women and girls could cite men for indecent exposure if their genitals were in view. Cost of adding stalls: 3 stalls on sale = $2,517.76 [http://www.sustainablesupply.com...]

Cost of a commercial urinal: $639 - 956 for the urinal alone, not to mention the cost of the additional plumbing, installation and wall repair. [http://www.faucetdirect.com...]
639 x 2 = $1,278....956 x 2 = $1,912 ...so it would cost $1,278 to 1,912 for 2 commercial urinals not including additional plumbing, installation or demolition/re-construction.

I'm sorry that trans gendered people don't have an easy solution to using the bathroom without being uncomfortable, but changing bathrooms to a single bathroom for everyone (the resolution of this debate) is too expensive for businesses, and changing the signs wouldn't do much, because genders would most likely continue to separate themselves.

My solution of adding a single unisex bathroom with a lock, is the most realistic and cost effective solution to the problem. My solution would even offer an added benefit: caretakers of disabled people of the opposite sex would be able to assist them with their bathroom needs privately. Cost of a commercial toilet: $318 - $864 / cost of a commercial sink $126 - 290 not to mention the cost of additional plumbing, installation and construction, but still less than even just adding commercial stalls around urinals.

This link shows how much planning goes into designing or remodeling bathrooms. http://www.inpicta.com...
Debate Round No. 3
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by MelissaBlaze 11 months ago
MelissaBlaze
I decided to argue against my own view just to see if I could do it. I had a professor in college that suggested this a many years ago and figured this is the perfect opportunity to try it. I recommend everyone try taking the other side and see where it leads them. I can say it definitely was not easy. My daughter asked me "What if you win the debate? That would be weird!" Looks like there will be no winner since there are no votes.
Posted by Rightreform 11 months ago
Rightreform
This is a real uncomfortable discussion, I'll tell you one thing men's restrooms are disgusting, so when there is nobody around I will sneak into the ladies restroom because it is cleaner. I do not even want to tell you about a Denver Broncos game I went to, but I will anyways. Apparently some guys didn't want to wait or they were so drunk they couldn't tell a urinal from a sink.
MelissaBlaze Great strategy I am not sure if you are trying to look disinterested in your argument because you saw it wasn't going your way and you wanted to protect your virtue, or if it is like trying to get a teacher or a parent to make you do something you wanted to do by arguing against it. Good job.
Either way, trust me you do not want disgusting guys in your bathrooms leaving it a filthy mess!
Posted by Emmarie 11 months ago
Emmarie
Lol - I keep getting ads for urinals after doing my research.
Posted by MelissaBlaze 11 months ago
MelissaBlaze
I've never set foot in a men's room and I never want to :) There is something about urinals that's kinda creepy, I guess. I agree that I don't want to see men standing there, knowing where their hands are.
Posted by Emmarie 11 months ago
Emmarie
Thanks, it's not that I personally care so much if I had to share a bathroom with everyone, now that I'm past the years when I was hit on alot - lol, but I would care for moms, and girls and young ladies. I've thought about this topic in depth, because a member brought up your resolution on a forum a couple of months ago which got me really thinking about what transgender people face when they need to use a restroom. It also got me thinking about why a young guy, (he is a really kind guy) would want this and it made me worry that young guys are "messed" with in men's rooms and possibly they would feel more comfortable with everyone. When you really think about it, who knows what men's rooms are really like for boys and young guys? I did use a men's room once when I was 9 months pregnant at the state fair, but I looked at the ground till I got to a stall and got out as fast as possible.
Posted by MelissaBlaze 11 months ago
MelissaBlaze
Emmarie, great points. Sorry about the apparent change. I didn't realize I did that. It just seems that since there are already two rooms, it would not make sense removing one. They usually have a common wall so perhaps that wall could be removed? I have a confession to make. I went in to this debate arguing against my own beliefs. I actually agree with you. When I joined, I decided to try arguing for the other side to see if I could do it. I have another debate on here where I did the same thing. I have to say it was fun trying to debate from the other side but I was unable to convince myself that we should have a single restroom for all.
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