The Instigator
Momo12345
Pro (for)
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The Contender
jadenrfairbanks
Con (against)
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0 Points

Should women be required to register for the draft?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/7/2018 Category: People
Updated: 2 weeks ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 162 times Debate No: 107690
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (6)
Votes (0)

 

Momo12345

Pro

R1-acception only
R2-cases
R3-rebuttal
R4-conclusion (no new evidence)

Please try to keep this debate factual and not emotional. I look forward to a good debate.
jadenrfairbanks

Con

ok ill keep it fact wise well start next round
Debate Round No. 1
Momo12345

Pro

1. There is no such thing as selective equality. Equality means shared burdens as well as shared opportunities. Unfortunately our recent history with wars of aggression has given a lot of women (and men) fair reason to question the morality of the draft for either sex. In other words, equality is better achieved by relieving men of the burden of registering for the selective service rather than expanding the burden to include women. But regardless of how you feel about the current landscape of warfare or geopolitical posturing, it"s hard to argue for gender equality while insisting upon a gender-based exemption when it comes to national defense. What the selective service is really about is worst-case scenarios. When our borders and property and collective culture are threatened with foreign violence and the volunteer Army appears to be inadequate to defend us, aren"t women just as capable and just as willing to stand up and defend the rights we"ve earned and the society we"ve established? You don"t have to believe in the Iraq War or the airstrikes in Syria to believe in this shared responsibility.

2. There are a number of ways for women to contribute that don"t involve combat. A draft doesn"t mean that women will be air-dropped into enemy territory with M-4s at their sides. The military needs doctors, lawyers, and dentists. It needs IT professionals, police officers, and intelligence analysts. It needs musicians and journalists. It needs human resource specialists, linguists, and logisticians. It needs cooks and truck drivers. It needs pilots and mechanics. Women can do all of these things. They don"t require an exceptional amount of brute strength or hazardous warrior training. Just brains and effort.

Obviously, not everyone is well-suited for a military career" but that statement is no more true of women than it is of men. And if young men can be called upon to fill a temporary need, even if it doesn"t quite suit their ideologies or sensibilities, there is no justifiable reason that the same sacrifice shouldn"t be asked of women.

4. Equal participation fosters a sense of community, responsibility, and civic engagement. There was a time in America"s past when the entire nation went to war. Young women went to work in factories. Older women darned socks for soldiers. Families grew vegetables in gardens. Everyone felt the scarcity and the personal cost of war in at least some small way. When the draft was our principal means of assembling and training our Armed Forces, even celebrities like Elvis Presley or Joe DiMaggio were called to assist the war effort. The transition to the volunteer Army didn"t do away with warfare, but it did ensure that the responsibility fell on a far smaller and less representative segment of the population " mainly minority and poor communities with little resources or opportunities. Requiring women to register for the selective service isn"t going to bring back this shared burden or sense of national commitment, but at the very least it will set the expectation that no one, not even Kylie Jenner, is exempt from service should the need arise. And maybe, just maybe, if everyone were subject to the same rules, we"d put a little more thought into when and where we go to war.

6. Equal Pay. Military pay is tied to rank and pay scales are publicly available. A female private earns the same pay as a male private. A female general earns the same pay as a male general. There are no negotiated salaries. No uncomfortable rituals in which women must carefully balance the need to argue their own worth without coming across as too aggressive or demanding. Women in the military can perform their jobs without questioning whether they are being undervalued or under-compensated in comparison with their male peers.
jadenrfairbanks

Con

1- I know gender equality is a reason but we are drafting women the us barley held it self up in ww2 they were very close to having women drafted but that was cause we were under heavy war ted cruze sent this post """We have had enough with political correctness, especially in the military,” Cruz said. """Political correctness is dangerous. And the idea that we would draft our daughters to forcibly bring them into the military and put them in close combat, I think, is wrong. It is immoral. I’m the father of two little girls, they are capable of doing anything they desire, but the idea that their government would forcibly put them in a foxhole doesn't make any sense at all.

2- Having women forced to draft will not make the gender equality go up it'll put men higher making this back to where we were according to thefederalist.com it has been proven that women are better land care takers then men and men are better at protecting there homes but thats just the dicta's of nature to decide this so don't tell me I'm being sexist

3-women should not be required to register for the drafts I walked to a women and asked her this question she said she doesn't want her daughter to be drafted into the war it also has been proven that America will not be able to support it self with out women in fact only 31 percent of women want to be drafted but mainly its men saying that they should infact 61 percent of men said that they should and also how will drafting them help us except that it helps in war and losing almost half the population would not help America in war in long term like who are we gonna draft if we need more people to the war after we draft women ,

4- Equal valve does not mean equal capability being equal is not the objective but treating women as if they were men is the objective tocqueville wrote this One can easily conceive that in thus striving to equalize one sex with the other," Tocqueville wrote, "one degrades them both; and that from this coarse mixture of nature"s works, only weak men and disreputable women can ever emerge." By transfiguring women into men and vice versa, we are corrupting both. Men won"t be challenged to be at their best because they will be expected to be something they"re not, and women the same. We are at our finest as human beings when we are true to who we are, to the identities we have been given by our Creator. Part of that identity is being a man or a woman and respecting the power and strength of each within our particular context. The dog who is forever trying to be a cat, and the cat who longs to be a dog, is in denial of nature and chasing an illusion that only leads to frustration, defeat, and despair. How is that an improvement for society? how how will forcing women to do this make us equal and happy its not like ladies sit around and do nothing during the war ww2 for example women took the jobs did baseball became doctors mechanics this is what women do and america cant hold it self up through drafting women. The argument that women must be drafted because they have an equal responsibility to protect this nation is a foolish notion. The duty of women to keep our families together and our society working while our sons, husbands, and fathers fight the enemy is just as valuable, just as heroic, and just as patriotic as what the men do. That is their responsibility!

5-If you don"t see that women should not be drafted then you are blinded by politically correct lies, unable to see the beauty and the strength of being a woman. This is an ironic point because advocates of drafting women, like Rubio, Christie, and Bush, think they"re honoring women by saying they should be forced to register with Selective Service. They think they"re doing what"s best for their daughters by giving the same opportunities as their sons. But being forced to fight a war is not an opportunity. It is a responsibility. To say women must share in this responsibility is to devalue and disrespect the responsibility women have traditionally fulfilled""the hard, lonely, difficult task of supporting the men who fight, caring for their homes, meeting their children"s needs alone when they"re tired and filled with worry, working jobs""sometimes seven days a week""while their husbands are away, and suffering through the heartache and pain of losing the men they love or watching them come home broken and picking up the pieces of their shattered lives.
Debate Round No. 2
Momo12345

Pro

First off, I would like to thank you for what I see is going to be a very good debate.
I would like to start by saying that drafting women is not "politically correct." I personally am against political correctness because I believe it blinds society. Also I would like to say that you said that "the idea that their government would forcibly put them in a foxhole doesn't make any sense at all." Which makes me question if you even read my case. Because in my point clearly marked 2. I told how there are other jobs than combat. And women would not be forced into combat positions. Most women are not suited for combat environments.
I don't think you totally understand the draft. All it does is, if you pass physical aptitude tests, it puts you into military service. Which could be anything from doctors, to cooks, to lawyers. My grandfather was in fact drafted during the Vietnam war and since he had a law degree, he never went overseas and instead joined the JAG corp. A part of the military in which they try and convict military men for war crimes or any other form of war/military related trials.
The fact that a lot of women do not want to register for the draft, proves that they want selective equality. They want some equality here. but not there. Women are no more or less capable than men and that is why they should register for the draft. As I mentioned it would give them MORE equality, opposite to what you said about it dividing them. pay is based off rank so equal pay would not be an issue. Rank advancements are based off of work so getting passed up for a promotion because of gender would not be an issue.
Honestly, you have an extremely sexist stance on this topic. you state that women should not have to put in the same effort as men is wrong. and you go on to say continuously that women should not have to fight in war becayse they are not "equally capable." As I stated THERE ARE OTHER OPTIONS. being in the military doesn't necessarily mean you will se combat.
You stated in your case that "The duty of women to keep our families together and our society working while our sons, husbands, and fathers fight the enemy is just as valuable, just as heroic, and just as patriotic as what the men do. That is their responsibility!" You said that making women register for the draft would bring us back to where we were, but your statement right here shows us that we already are where we used to be! giving women the same responsibilities as men makes them more equal and causes less people to think wrongly as you do!
you state that you are not sexist but everything you are saying goes against that. I stand firmly pro because I believe in equality! because I know women are more than capable of doing what a lot of our brave men already do. And in a time of war, we don't just need our men. We need our women too. Because they are a lot of the reason we won WW2. They are the reason we exist as a species. We rely on them and we need to continue to rely on them. Which is why women need to register for the draft.
jadenrfairbanks

Con

I would like to thank you to for this great debate
first I knew what you meant drafting is a matter of war to be a doctor and be drafted you will be a field medic drafting means we need combat ready soldiers for war not come to be a musician or a artist and also excuse me I was not sexist I said I don't mean offense and I'm not trying to be sexist second I'm trying not to be sexist but men are biologically proven, almost entirely undisputable fact that the average male is physically stronger than the average female. I"m not being sexist. I"m not saying women are weak. I"m just stating a fact. A particular woman could be stronger than a particular man, but a draft would not screen carefully for these particulars. It would be indiscriminate and thus, create a battlefield with sizeable gaps in strength. This is far from ideal, much less beneficial. There is no guarantee that other nations would also require females to fight. Wars would be fought on asymmetric playing grounds.

If the draft were to be reinstated, this time calling women to fight as well, females age 18-25 would be put into combat roles. While I entirely affirm the notion that women are not on this earth for the sole purpose of having babies, reproduction is necessary for society to continue to exist. Deliberately forcing our most fertile females into front-line positions might lead to a decline in birth rate. And while this planet is overpopulated as it is, I think this is an important factor to consider. I support the right women have, by virtue of being citizens and permanent residents of this nation, to volunteer themselves to occupy combat positions. By nature of the fact that this would occur on a volunteer basis, the process is self-selecting and thus would automatically screen for the particulars I mentioned earlier.

Finally, we can approach this topic normatively in order to figure out what is fair and just in such a situation. Let"s start with some statistics. A woman makes 77 cents for every dollar a man makes. A woman is 6 times more likely to be raped and 20 times more likely to suffer from an eating disorder. Over 60% of those living in poverty are women. The list goes on. Some call this equality. I call it second-class citizenship. It is difficult to justify forcing a woman to put her life on the line for a society which does not afford her the same benefits as it does a man, for a society which asks "what were you wearing" all too often, for a society which thinks that the right to vote is all it takes.

Moreover, it"s a mistake to think that the draft could never return because people would overwhelmingly oppose people being forced into combat. drafting has another side women could start a revolt against this causing a civil war and if we go back to the civil war we had in the 1700-1800 will ultimately devastate america

combat roles are already open to women, but of course, if women registered for Selective Service and a draft was in fact implemented, the number of females on the military front lines could skyrocket This would weaken our forces and unnecessarily cost both male and female blood. I'm not being sexist I'm telling the biological fact
Debate Round No. 3
Momo12345

Pro

I would like to mention like I did a little earlier that to be drafted doesn"t necessarily mean combat. All it means is military service. You could stay in country all the time you were in the military. Drafting just bring you into military service. And as I stated sooner if you have a special skill they will often keep you in a position like that, like my grandfather. So if you come in a musician after being drafted, there is a possibility for you to stay a musician.

Again I"m not saying to have women fight, that is a totally different debate. I"m just saying that equality cannot be upheld if men are required to register for giving up years of their life while women are not. I see no reason this is not beneficial. Like I said it is not guaranteed combat but just service and employment.

Our current laws for women in combat are in the very early stages, a draft being implemented would not make them go to combat. You continuously hit that point that women shouldn"t be forced into combat and I have continuously disproved this as false.

I can honestly say that we are currently not equal. You are right, women are a lot worse off than men. But what you don"t understand is something I stated in my original case. The military is a rank based pay system so women would be paid exactly the same as men in their same rank.

The draft could give women the opportunity to not only be paid equally, but have equal job opportunities as men. And I would like to mention on rape. The military is very harsh on their sexual rules. Of course they are not perfect, but they do all they can to enforce safety for their women in the military.

I believe the draft could very well be put into place soon. The fact you mention a civil war I find very funny. It proves the selective equality point. If women rebelled because of having to sign up for the draft then it proves that the only reason the draft isn"t already implemented for them is because they are lazy.

Now i"m not saying Women are lazy i"m saying it is an unwant to do things that is causing this issue. As I have proved women would not be forced into combat roles. They would be made to do what they were most capable of. Thank you for this debate.
jadenrfairbanks

Con

id ike to cangratuat you for this great debate (accept my request) but this isn't over so i still have to finish my point

not being sexist I'm not trying to but as it is already women don't have equality but men want even more on there side and don't say I'm being sexist I'm a male to but women have a greatly gender equality difernce from men for example men flirt with girls randomly and just get to do the most inapropret things but women get scolded people don't like them if they do things men can do but that is a deabate for another time another reason women shouldn't be forced to draft According to a Rasmussen survey, only 38 percent of women agreed that women should register for Selective Service. While this is already a low number, it is likely inflated for two reason: one, the report surveyed women of all ages and not women who would potentially be mandated to serve if said draft were to be implemented, and two, the survey was taken earlier this month, a time when the draft was (and still is) dormant. Arguably, if women who were liable to the mandate were exclusively surveyed, or if this survey was taken at a time when the draft was active and thus more of a reality, the already low 38 percent of women in favor of the mandated would be even lower.
Clearly, mandating women to register for Selective Service would force women to participate in something they overwhelmingly reject.Obviously, this notion that fixing mythical "inequality" trumps safety of both men and women is morally reprehensible. To sum it up in one line from a man who served this fine country: "The moral point that a country which sends its wives, mothers, sisters, and daughters into the meat grinder of combat has preemptively surrendered a vital portion of its own humanity thus ending my case that women do not and will not be forced to register for the drafts
Debate Round No. 4
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by jadenrfairbanks 1 week ago
jadenrfairbanks
no one voted lol
Posted by jadenrfairbanks 1 week ago
jadenrfairbanks
sorry for spam it laged
Posted by jadenrfairbanks 1 week ago
jadenrfairbanks
no i don't think men want to but we haven't had a draft in years but like i said men mainly want women to be forced to draft a
Posted by jadenrfairbanks 1 week ago
jadenrfairbanks
no i don't think men want to but we haven't had a draft in years but like i said men mainly want women to be forced to draft a
Posted by jadenrfairbanks 1 week ago
jadenrfairbanks
no i don't think men want to but we haven't had a draft in years but like i said men mainly want women to be forced to draft a
Posted by Momo12345 2 weeks ago
Momo12345
you think men want to register for the draft? using the unwant as an argument is so wrong.
No votes have been placed for this debate.