The Instigator
dsjpk5
Pro (for)
Winning
21 Points
The Contender
kasmic
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Since Christians are monotheists, and Mormons are henotheists, they're not Christians

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 4 votes the winner is...
dsjpk5
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/11/2014 Category: Religion
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 779 times Debate No: 58839
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (2)
Votes (4)

 

dsjpk5

Pro

First round for Con is for acceptance.

Definitions: mon"o"the"ism
G2;m"nəG6;THēG6;izəm
noun
the doctrine or belief that there is only one God. [1]

Henotheism (Greek ^9;O91;`2; _2;^9;a2;`2; heis theos "one god") is the belief in and worship of a single God while accepting the existence or possible existence of other deities that may also be worshipped. [2]

Sources:
1.http://www.google.com...

2.http://en.m.wikipedia.org...
kasmic

Con

I accept. Good Luck!
Debate Round No. 1
dsjpk5

Pro

I appreciate my opponent for accepting this debate. With all due respect to him, I think my resolution is pretty easy to prove. Having said that, I will begin. I will begin by showing Christianity is defined as monotheistic, and then illustrate how Mormonism is not monotheistic, but rather henotheistic - worships one god, but believes other gods exist. Now for the definition of Christianity:

Christianity (from the Ancient Greek word ]5;`1;_3;`3;`4;a2;`2;, Christos, a translation of the Hebrew מָשִׁיחַ, Mā""ăM17;, meaning "the anointed one",[1] together with the Latin suffixes -ian and -itas) is a monotheistic[2] religion based on the life and oral teachings of Jesus as presented in the New Testament. (Wikipedia.org)

As you can plainly see, Christianity is a monotheistic religion. Now I will illustrate that Mormonism is not.

Mormonism and the existence of other gods:
General Authorities teach that there are many gods beyond the LDS Godhead.

"I will preach on the plurality of Gods (p.474)... The heads of the Gods appointed one God for us"(p.476)...
Joseph Smith - Mormonism founder
History of the Church 6:474

"In the beginning, the head of the Gods called a council of the Gods; and they came together and concocted a plan to create the world and people it."
Joseph Smith - Mormonism founder
Ensign, April 1971, p.13-14

"If we should take a million of worlds like this and number their particles, we should find that there are more Gods than there are particles of matter in those worlds... One world has a personal God or Father, and the inhabitants thereof worship the attributes of that God, another world has another, and they worship His attributes..."
Orson Pratt - Mormon apostle
Journal of Discourses 2:345

"How many Gods there are, I do not know. But there never was a time when there were not Gods and worlds, and when men were not passing through the same ordeals that we are now passing through."
Brigham Young - Mormon prophet
Journal of Discourses 7:333

"God, angel and similar terms denote merely intelligent beings of varying degree of development. The thought, however, that there is a plurality of gods and other beings of varying grades, is a though of fundamental truth."
John A. Widstoe - Mormon apostle
Rational Theology, p.62

"Consequently every earth has its redeemer, and every earth has its tempter; and every earth, and the people thereof, in their turn and time, receive all that we receive, and pass through all the ordeals that we are passing through."
Brigham Young - Mormon prophet
Journal of Discourses 14:71-72

"But if God the Father was not always God, but came to his present exalted position by degrees of progress as indicated in the teachings of the prophet, how has there been a God from all eternity? The answer is that there has been and there now exists an endless line of Gods, stretching back into the eternities, that had no beginning and will have no end. Their existence runs parallel with endless duration, and their dominions are as limitless as boundless space."
B. H. Roberts - Mormon apostle and LDS church historian
A New Witnesses for God 1:476 [Google - 7MB PDF]
kasmic

Con

My opponents resolve is illogical and fallacious.

First to say that Christians are monotheistic is a misnomer. The definition as provided by my opponent as to what makes one a monotheist is as follows "the doctrine or belief that there is only one God." As opposed to being a henotheist. Which was defined as follows, "Henotheism (Greek ^9;O91;`2; _2;^9;a2;`2; heis theos "one god") is the belief in and worship of a single God while accepting the existence or possible existence of other deities that may also be worshipped.

I will prove that Christians are Henotheists.

I will for my sources be quoting from the Bible, as it is the main authority in Christianity.
Consider,

Genesis 1:26 "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:"
Notice that it does not say and I God will make man in my image, and after my likeness. Emphasis on the words us and ours implying plural.

Exodus 20:3 "Thou shalt have no other gods before me."
Notice that it does not read I am the only God and worship me, emphasis on "other gods."

John 10:34 "3 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?"
There you have it out of the mouth of Jesus Christ himself saying gods, as in plural.

The definition of Christianity that my opponent provided includes the definition: "religion based on the life and oral teachings of Jesus as presented in the New Testament. (Wikipedia.org)"

If a religion based on the teachings of Jesus Christ makes one a Christian" and Jesus Christ just stated as clear as possible that there are Gods, not God. Then being a Christian is to be henotheistic. This of course makes the definition provided by Wikipedia suspect and illogical.

My opponent"s resolve might as well read "Since Christians are Henotheists, they are not Christians" This of course would not make sense.

If being a henotheist does not exclude one from being a Christian then saying that Mormons are henotheist and therefore not Christian, is not a valid statement.

All references from the Bible are from the (KJV)
Debate Round No. 2
dsjpk5

Pro

My response in this round will proceed as follows:
A. Discussion concerning the definition of Christianity.
B. The problem with personal interpretation of the Bible.
C. Rebutting my opponent's interpretations.
D. Offering Bible verses that support my claims.
E. Showing what the early Christians believed.

A. In the previous round, I offered an unbiased source that defines
Christianity as a monotheistic religion. My opponent CLAIMED that
Christianity is not monotheistic, but rather henotheistic. One thing
he did not do was offer an unbiased source to support his claim. All
he offered were his personal, private interpretations of the Bible.
With this in mind, unless he can offer a source that defines
Christianity as henotheistic, the definition I offered stands. And as
long as my definition stands, I have one the debate. Christianity is
monotheistic, while Mormonism is not. Therefore it is not Christian.
Notice how my opponent has not denied that Mormons are henotheists, so
this is no longer in doubt for the remainder of this debate. It has
been dropped. And with that, I have met my BURDEN OF PROOF. I have
shown that Christianity is monotheistic, and my opponent has not denied
Mormonism as henotheistic.

B. Personal interpretation of the Bible.

"I never said you stole money."

Whenever one reads a statement or a book, in order to understand what
the author wrote, it's best to ask th author. If unable to ask the
author, th next best thing is to talk to someone who was taught by the
author. Without such access, it's easy to misunderstand the words you
read. For example, what if 2,000 years ago, someone wrote "I never
said you stole money."? At first glance, understanding those words may
seem easy. But what if the author meant:

1. I never said you stole money... My friend said it.
2. I never SAID you stole money... but I sure thought it.
3. I never said YOU stole money... I said your friend did.
4. I never said you STOLE money... You borrowed it.
5. I never said you stole MONEY... You stole my car.

Now take that one verse multiply it by 20,000, and you have.the Bible.
It's a book written in different times, by different authors, in
different languages, to different audiences, for different reasons. And
if you don't have access to the original Christians who knew the
authors, all you have is an interpretation that may not be taking what
was said in context.

C. Rebutting my opponent's claims about the Bible:

" And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:"
Notice that it does not say and I God will make man in my image, and
after my likeness. Emphasis on the words us and ours implying plural."

Here God could have been using the words "us"and "our" in the same way
an ancient king used the "royal we" while consulting his court. In
other words, God may have been consulting the angels. This is a belief
held by a number of Bible scholars such as Franz Kelitzch [3]

My opponent quotes Exodus 20:3 "Thou shalt have no other gods before
me."

The reason God forbid anyone from worshiping anyone else could be
because He is the only one. False gods don't exist just like unicorns
don't exist. You shouldn't believe in either.

My opponent quotes:
John 10:34 "3 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I
said, Ye are gods?"

Jesus is not saying other gods exist. When he said this, he was
referring to Psalm 82:6. Here we see God using a figure of speech. He
is referring to the judges of Israel, who because of their power to
judge, were godlike. But being like God doesn't make one actually God.
We know that the Psalms weren't referring to the judges as actual,
eternal gods because in the very next verse He declares them mortal:
"nevertheless, you shall die like men, and fall like any prince"

Having now offered alternative interpretations of the verses my
opponent offered, we can now see that has done nothing but five a
biased opinion about the definition of Christianity. I, on the other
hand, offered an unbiased source that says that Christianity is
monotheistic.

D. Offering Bible verses that support my claim that Christianity is
monotheistic, and not henotheistic.

I will now go beyond my burden of proof and show where the Bible
clearly teaches that Ther is only one God:[4]

Yahweh, He is God; there is no other besides Him." Deuteronomy 4:3

"Yahweh, He is God in heaven above and on the earth below; there is no
other." Deuteronomy 4:39

"See now that I, I am He, And there is no god besides Me" Deuteronomy
32:39

"You are great, O Lord God; for there is none like You, and there is no
God besides You" 2 Samuel 7:22

"For who is God, besides Yahweh? And who is a rock, besides our God?" 2
Samuel 22:32

"Yahweh is God; there is no one else." 1 Kings 8:60

"O Lord, there is none like You, nor is there any God besides You" 1
Chronicles 17:20

"For who is God, but Yahweh? And who is a rock, except our God" Psalm
18:31

"You alone, Lord, are God." Isaiah 37:20

"Before Me there was no God formed, And there will be none after Me."
Isaiah 43:10

"'I am the first and I am the last, And there is no God besides Me."
Isaiah 44:6

"Is there any God besides Me, Or is there any other Rock? I know of
none." Isaiah 44:8

"I am Yahweh, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God."
Isaiah 45:5

"Surely, God is with you, and there is none else, No other God." Isaiah
45:14

"I am Yahweh, and there is none else." Isaiah 45:18

"Is it not I, Yahweh? And there is no other God besides Me, A righteous
God and a Savior; There is none except Me." Isaiah 45:21

"I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is no one like
Me" Isaiah 46:9

E. What the early Christians believed.

I will now show why claiming the Bible teaches monotheism can be
trusted... those who had a connection to the Apostles were
monotheistic. [5]

Irenaeus
"For the Church, although dispersed throughout the whole world even to
the ends of the earth, has received from the apostles and from their
disciples the faith in one God, the Father Almighty . . ."

Tertullian
"We do indeed believe that there is only one God..."

Sources:
3.
http://www.hebrew-streams.org...

4.http://www.bible.ca...

5.http://www.catholic.com...
kasmic

Con

Unfortunately I will not have sufficient time to respond fully, as such I will concede this debate to my opponent.
Debate Round No. 3
dsjpk5

Pro

My opponent has conceded.
kasmic

Con

I conceded.
Debate Round No. 4
dsjpk5

Pro

Please vote pro.
kasmic

Con

I conceded.
Debate Round No. 5
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by dsjpk5 2 years ago
dsjpk5
Hello GoOr! As I am unable to understand your comments, I am unable to offer you a proper challenge. Could you either clarify the exact challenge you want, or challenge me?
Posted by GoOrDin 2 years ago
GoOrDin
Pro, dsjpk5, although you won this debate,
I turn over your win as redundant. You are wrong, and I can win this debate I favor of CON.

Had you said that the sea was in fact a pool of chlorine you would be equally as correct as this current assertion, Mormons cannot be Christians based on this henotheism argument.

please invite me to a debate so that we can verify my assertion. You will win by debate or by knowledge earned.
4 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Vote Placed by Free_Th1nker 2 years ago
Free_Th1nker
dsjpk5kasmicTied
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Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: Better arguments by pro; concession by con.
Vote Placed by 9spaceking 2 years ago
9spaceking
dsjpk5kasmicTied
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Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: concession
Vote Placed by lannan13 2 years ago
lannan13
dsjpk5kasmicTied
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Total points awarded:60 
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeiture
Vote Placed by TrueScotsman 2 years ago
TrueScotsman
dsjpk5kasmicTied
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Total points awarded:10 
Reasons for voting decision: Full concession.