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Skyim is the worst in the series with or without mods.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/29/2015 Category: Games
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 763 times Debate No: 78248
Debate Rounds (5)
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Hello everyone! This is my very first debate and I think this is going to be a lot of fun.
I also like to say that this debate is not for the console gamers since modding is a part of the elder scrolls and if my opponent wish to debate about Skyrim with added mods that makes the game better we will do that. I can of course do the same thing with the previous TES titles.

When I talk about how skyrim is the worst I talk mainly about the roleplay elements and some of the points that Samyoul and Sorcerer Dave talks about. Here is the link to Samyoul video "The Elder Scrolls : The Dumbing Down;.

My opponent if he wishes can take some of the points that Sorcerer Dave made in his video that is named " Why The Elder Scrolls Isn't Dumbing Down". Link here ";.
First round is just for accepting!


Hello Darkrock, and welcome to I hope you enjoy your time here. I'll just explain my own position in terms of Elder Scrolls. I started with Oblivion, did a few quests, finished the Shivering Isles and then broke the main quest by using the Wabbajack on Dagon. Skyrim has me hooked. I bought it on release date and I'm still playing it now (I even ascended to PC gaming so I could mod it).
I won't start my argument this round, but there's one thing I'll ask of you: You can use the videos as sources if you want, but make the arguments your own (ie not saying "I'll just leave this here"). Warning's out of the way, and we're about to discuss one of my favorite games, let's make this a fun debate!

See you next round,

Debate Round No. 1


Hello everyone! This is my very first debate and I think this is going to be a lot of fun.
I also like to say that this debate is not for the console gamers since modding is a part of the elder scrolls and if my opponent wish to debate about Skyrim with added mods that makes the game better we will do that. I can of course do the same thing with the previous TES titles.

When I talk about how skyrim is the worst I talk mainly about the roleplay elements and some of the points that Samyoul and Sorcerer Dave talks about. Here is the link to Samyoul video "The Elder Scrolls : The Dumbing Down;.

My opponent if he wishes can take some of the points that Sorcerer Dave made in his video that is named " Why The Elder Scrolls Isn't Dumbing Down". Link here ";.
First round is just for accepting!

Thank you for accepting!
Now let us start with the main story.

If we take a look at the writing you can see that Bethesda uses the old "you are the chosen one and you need to fight the evil so that the world can be saved!" I've seen that and chances are that you have seen that. Let us compare that to Oblivion's writing. First thing you will notice is that you are not the chosen one. You are the one that helps protect the chosen one (Martin Septim) but you are not the chosen one.
That's better writing for me because it felt unique and if I am going to be honest it still feels unique.
Now I'm gonna say that the main quest are boring on both the games but because Oblivion had an interesting script it felt better.
Side quest in Skyrim was boring and I never really fun. It felt like they just put their effort on the main quest line and here is why I think like this.
Let us compare Oblivion's dark brotherhood hood and Skyrim's dark brotherhood. First of you got bonuses on the quests almost from the start. Bonuses were a good thing because it made the quest more challenging and more fun. Dark brotherhood in Skyrim had bonuses on some quests (some of them were great) but not enough for me and a lot of players to feel connected to the story.
The companions in Skyrim was the most fun quest line of them all but it did not hold. Sure it was a nice twist with the werewolf thing however after some levels the werewolf was kinda weak and useless and it did not feel like a burden or a curse like the vampire disease. Now the fighter guild in both Morrowind and Oblivion was kinda meh but I still felt like the writing was better and thus more fun and it felt more of a meaning doing the quests. I will take Oblivion again for an example because I played it trough recently. In Oblivion there was a bit of a twist with the blackwood company. I'm not gonna spoil it for those who have not played trough it, all I'm gonna say is that it was a pretty darn nice twist. I also liked how you became the boss in the fighters guild (I don't consider that a spoiler because that is how every single side quest line end in the elder scrolls), play it trough and you should know what I mean.

The thieves guild in Skyrim was okay and it was a lot better than morrowind's take on it. In Cyrodiil it was quite fun just to join the guild. I mean you can just bribe a beggar or you can steal something and serve your time in jail and the they will come to you.It was just more ways to get in the thieves guild and I like that. I will also say that the heist that you will do later in Oblivion is so amazing and even cool. That time when you had to steal from the blind monks near Bruma or when you had to steal from an powerful wizard and let's not forget the last heist. In Skyrim I can't even remember a lot of the quests from the thieves guild except for the bee thing and the last trial and when you went into the falmer cave.

The NPCS were boring compared to Oblivion and Morrowinds NPCS.
In Morrowind we got for an example the perverted Crassius Curio(I'm not so good with names so I am only going to give one example LOL) and in Oblivion each Npc felt unique. Go to the Imperial city and ask the people about the city and you will hear that each npc say something that no other npc say. Now go to skyrim and I will admit that they got some interesting NPCS but a whole bunch of them had only one liners and the ones that got dialogues does not even have enough of them. Does it not make sense that if you lived in Tamrial and went to a city that you would go around and ask different people about the city you are in? It makes sense to me at least.

In Skyrim the map was beautiful but I had to walk the same damn roads over and over and over. It felt like a choir after a while and I am a player that really does not like to use fast travel.
Did not have that problem with Morrowind or Oblivon.

The AI felt like a downgrade. We had in skyrim a fellow who would lean on a pillar half the day and then go to the inn. We had a guy who just sat on the inn all day.
The shopkeepers would just open up the shop and later go to bed. The The NPCS did not interact with each other and it almost felt like the radiant AI was as bad as Morrowind and Morrowind did not even have radiant AI.
Look at the market district in the Imperial city. Some would go in shops and look at wares while other had a nice lunch at the feeding bag, some of them had discussions. The shopkeeper would close the store and have an ale or two and later sleep for the night. This made the cities come alive. This made the world come alive


You may be the Dragonborn, but you're no chosen one. Plenty of steps along the way you face opportunities to deny your destiny. By the last dlc, you're not even the only dragonborn: you face a previous chosen one who refused his fate. Chosen one stories don't usually work because they don't address how the "chosen" reacts to their quest, but Skyrim does. Being the chosen or just his mate is irrelevant if this isn't met.

The dark brotherhood in Skyrim does give early bonuses: a set of very useful armour and an easy source of income. It also fans out for the later quests, and you're free to consult the others on different approaches.

The Dawnguard expansion improved both vampires and werewolves with respective skills, and the Volkihar questline had some really neat levels and quests.

Around your comment on npcs: Skyrim and Oblivion worked on different levels. Oblivion let you travel to any city from the start, and so the gameplay was centred on only leaving the walls if an npc had given you a quest: thus you spend more time talking with them . Skyrim encouraged you to carve out the map from hubs, unlocking new ones along the way. You still had town quests, but they often had you venture off to unexplored areas, with more dungeons along the way to detour by.

Also, this does have to be said. Oblivion npcs were all developed in chargen, and had about three voice actors to go round. There was that stupid conversation minigame too. A man would talk to himself, and they would discuss their favourite shop in town, run by them. Skyrim dialled back on npcs because there is always an uncanny valley issue with them , and they instead based the game on freedom. You might think it unfair to use technology as an argument,but the game is still mechanically superior.

The reason I don't think it's unfair to mention tech is because you speak of only Elder Scrolls 3 and 4. Skyrim can't be worst in a series that includes Elder Scrolls Online, and very few even mention Arena or Daggerfall in these discussions. I won't make mention of mods because I don't think they should be counted as intrinsic quality for the games.

See you next round,

Debate Round No. 2


In Skyrim you are the chosen one, no doubt about it. Could anyone else have defeated Alduin? I think not and here is why.
The greybeards says that it can take years to master the voice. You have to remember that the dragonborn masters a lot of shouts in a short period of time. Could anyone learn that shout that clears wind before Alduin destroy Nirn? You can argue that the greybeards already know of the shout but could they defeat Alduin? No they can't nor can't Ulfric since he thinks that the Imperials are a bigger threat. (Plus he die pretty easily) So I would argue that you are the chosen one and that nobody can replace you.

The Dark brotherhood in Skyrim did not have enough bonuses to beat Oblivion's excellent Dark brotherhood and the bonuses Skyrim had was not even worth saving in my memory. Let us be honest here. Oblivion had a quest were you could switch someones medicine to poison or that time when you were at that party and could if you so choices murder everyone silently. I have fun memories with the finger bonus too. I do remember two bonuses in Skyrim but that is all. I once made a comment on youtube that said something like this. "Dark brotherhood in Skyrim does not even have bonuses". I got liked a lot so I'm not the only one that can't remember the bonuses. That is a failure of game design.

Yes it is true that the Dlc improved upon the werewolf and the vampire but the werewolf is not good anyway. When you talk to some people who have the werewolf "curse" they complained about it yet when I was a werewolf I did not get what they were talking about. There was one downside with being a werewolf but it's not even a big deal and nothing that was worth curing the werewolf "disease". Also you should not pay for a dlc just because the werewolf feature was broken. (I went that far)

About the map, I almost wanted to fast travel while playing Skyrim. Same roads and sometimes shortcuts. But those shortcuts became dull after a while and made me stop playing Skyrim for almost five months. If you ask me, that is a failure of game design.

The npc had discussion in Oblivion and yes very stupid ones at that. But the discussion was in the game for one reason. So that when you walked around the cities the npcs would seem like real people and hell I don't even listen to them so I sometimes hear a dialogue that is new to me.
Also Bethesda did not focus on freedom in Skyrim. It had less freedom then the titles before it. Try it out for your self! Try to kill everyone in a city. You will notice that half the city is not killable because of some quest they had.
I once went into a mining village near Morthal and this one guy that owned the mine could not be killed. When I searched his name in the Elder scrolls wiki I found out that he had one quest and it was to deliver a note to someone in Solitude and then come back to him. Is that the freedom you were talking about? Because I simply can't see it.

Elder Scrolls Online is not really a part of the series. Same with the mobile games and the redguard game. I could mention Daggerfall,Arena and Battlespire but you can't simply compare the those with Morrowind,Oblivion and Skyrim and you know it.


You may be Dragonborn, but it's your choice whether or not to finish the quest; almost every conversation in the main quest offers the player reluctant dialogue. Miraak was the original chosen one, Talos was chosen after him. You beat Alduin ingame because you choose to finish the quest; it can always sit in your log if you don't want it. Besides, you don't even kill Alduin anyway: you never absorb his soul.

The Dark Brotherhood gives you a gauntlet set that doubles all backstab damage. Gold is the reward early on, but for finding unique ways to kill targets (using the statue at the wedding), killing the inspector in a city instead of the wilderness), you receive new abilities such as the Ancient set and the power to summon Lucien LaChance, which I thought you of all people would like. Game design is not about you remembering what items you got where. It's about you finding each fight enjoyable, and each level enjoyable, and here the game excels. Dual wielding is a new feature to Skyrim, and gives you more variance in how you play.

Few characters call the wereblood a curse: Aela considers it a gift, and those who fear it fear Hircine's realm. The werewolf is meant to be played as more of an hunter; pick off the deadly targets as you enter and scatter the weak while you focus them. Silver is your only weakness, and Aela simply suggests you wipe out the only silver using faction as a solution. The DLC doesn't "fix" problems, it expands on the game. It offers a new way to play previous races as well as new content. It's worth getting for the extra content it gives, especially with the Black Book levels in Solstheim.

Just because you don't like exploring doesn't make the exploration bad. You focus on the narrative by your indications, where Skyrim focuses on the adventure. That's like saying that all real time strategy games are bad because all you do is sue the steamroll tactic.

The Oblivion characters look and feel unnatural. The lack of voice distinction; the ugly faces and the game's insistence on having you zoom into them in chat left the npcs to frolic in the uncanny valley. 'Sides, you can still get radiant dialogue in Skyrim. When Maven brushes paths with Riften shopkeepers; Ysolda's conversations with Carlotta and Irileth arguing with Balgruf, all offer what you claim to enjoy.

On essential characters; Fallout 3 showed Bethesda that you fail a lot more quests without them. It's possible for Eola to die during the Taste Of Death, and if she does, then you lose out of a Daedric artifact. Also, with that mine? Pretty sure he's involved in some Companions' missions to rescue falmer prisoners. Especially in a game where dragons can randomly attack, it can really interrupt a save if a key character dies.

ESO is in fact canon to the Elder Scrolls series, and to call Skyrim the worst in the series but then say that you don't count half the games in the series renders the motion pointless. Skyrim may not be a perfect game, but it cannot possibly be the worst in the series. You can't even use the grandfather principle on the older games, since Skyrim took a lot more influence from Bethesda's takeover of the Fallout series than those games.

One more thing. You often say throughout the debate that you personally don't find certain aspects appealing. Opinion is a tricky beast indeed, but I think that Ocarina of Time is a very poorly designed game. Overwhelming majority would disagree, and while I can explain at length with good reasons why i think it bad, objectively i accept that the game is world-renowned for a reason.

See you next round

Debate Round No. 3


You are the chosen one and I gave you a reason that you are in fact the chosen but you did not bother to give a good argument upon that.
Yes it is true that you have a choice to complete the main quest but that does not mean you are not the chosen one. You still are even if you choices to ignore the main quest.

And about the statue and all of that.
Those that you mention came pretty late in the quest line and some of them are not even bonuses. Yes there is ways to do one mission but why would I? When people are not rewarded for doing things differently they really don't bother. I bet most of players played Deus ex: Human revolution like a silent agent because going in a building shooting up people did not really give a reward.
Also don't mention dual wielding when it is a feature that people don't really use and here is why.
Bethesda did not really give dual wielding attention that it needed. I did not use it because it felt dumb and unrealistic. No fool would run with two weapons like that! It's pure comedy when you see a dark brotherhood member come after you and not using the two weapons correctly.

Yes I know that the dlc did not fix the problems the werewolf had even trough it tried. Yes I know that a werewolf is a hunter but it still does not fix the problems. You don't seem to understand what I mean so let me try and explain it again.
Some characters in Skyrim does not like werewolves and the reason is different. Some are mad that they torn up a family member while others hunt werewolves because it is something that came from a deadra. Some of them that have blood of the wolf can't even control it and end up doing something they regret. Some of them turn into a werewolf without even doing something that triggers the blood.
Okay so a new player would think. "Cool so if I choice to become a hunter it means that it can have consequences? My choice to become a werewolf can really change my playstyle?"
No it can't. See when people complain about the werewolf feature it really because it was not good. I mean I could drink Aela's blood and not have to become a werewolf after the Whiterun thing that happens. That should not be how a werewolf should be.
Vampires in Skyrim was good for the reason that it really felt like a choice that made an impact on the way I played.

Wait, I don't like to explore? Okay thanks for letting me know that. I thought I did but I trust you.
Of course I love exploring Tamriel. But let me tell ya. I don't use the fast travel feature because I like to explore but when I have to explore the same roads over and over and over again it becomes a bit boring. I'm gonna guess that you use it right? Nothing wrong with it but just try and play trough Skyrim without using fast travel. You will notice that in a lot of cases you can't explore cross country because either there is mountains or a mountain in the way or a ton of water.
The exploration is bad for us that don't use fast travel. Also don't tell me to swim across the water because that water does not really look that warm.

Yes the NPCS in Skyrim have conversation but after you have heard them all the cities does not feel like cities. The cities does not even feel like villages. They feel like a hub in one of those mmo games where you get all the quest from.

Oh so the leader of the mine is part of a companion quest? Yeah. One of those radiant quests? Right.
It's still not a reason why he should not be killed. If someone sends thugs it is roleplay wise a good reason why people would go from Riverwood to the mine near Morthal and get some sweet revenge. Why not have a message pop up that says that he is an important character (which he is not).
Yes dragons can attack the mine but Bethesda could still give the player freedom and make the player be the one that can get past the essential wall or whatever.

Eso is a part of the elder scrolls games but not the series. When I say series I mean of course the ones with numbers on it.I don't consider Redguard a part of the series because of that reason. Also Redguard was actually suppose to be its own series but the first one did not sell enough. Same thing with Eso. After ten years or more it would not be crazy with Eso 2 on another continent and if that is the case then it would be a part of its own series.
And also another thing. When I talk about what I think is not good in a game I'm not just talking about me. I'm talking about those who also see what I see in Skyrim and I even consider some of what you read facts.
Also Skyrim is not a bad game. In fact I never said that so don't write that I think it is a bad game because that is simply not true.


My point was that being the chosen one doesn't really mean anything when you're in a list of chosen ones. Being a chosen one story isn't inherently a flaw; it's when you never expand on it that it becomes weak. You have said that the player is not replaceable despite them being a replacement for all previous Dragonborns, which includes Miraak and the Septim line.

DX:HR is meant to be played in stealth because it's harder to pull off than straight up combat, and sneaking through an area will always be more satisfying. Combat is fine, but it's not the center point of the game. The harder option should be more rewarding: it stands to reason.

Your argument for why Skyrim is the worst Elder Scrolls game is that you thought dual wielding was silly. One of my earliest builds was a dual wielding tank with lifesteal maces, wulding into enemies and out-sustaining them. You insist that npcs who dual wield are stupid, but one of the most dangerous enemies in the game will always be a Briarheart, almost all of whom can easily chunk you with a power attack.

You don't like werewolf mode because it didn't have enough drawbacks? As I've said before, the game is centered around freedom of playstyle, and forcing you into a certain style based on one side quest you did.

The fast-travel is meant to be used in the same way as Fallout 3. You would learn of a distant location and trek out there, finding new places on the way, and then be able to return after clearing the original level. When you want to explore again, you can easily return to that location and then resume your journey from there. Back to the freedom thing: you frequently earn loot in the wilds, and when you overencumber, you shouldn't have to slog back to town just to keep going.

I said in the first round that they are meant to serve as hubs. The real game is out in the wilds, and towns are a place to recuperate and restock between those adventures. Divinity Original Sin had the town feel real, but if you didn't turn it upside down for quests and xp, then you couldn't advance.

The mine owner is essential, in a way. If he dies, then all the miners would leave. There would have to be an entire "refugee" script set where characters would have to leave if the area leader died. You would eventually be left with an empty world, and while that might suit your roleplay, it's a limit to play if external forces dictate what quests you can and cannot take.

ESO has repeatedly been confirmed to be part of the series, when you go to the Elder Scrolls site, below 3, 4 and 5 is ESO. And no, there won't be an ESO 2; MMOs don't have sequels, they have expansions.

When you talk about what's bad in each aspect, you always mention that you didn't like them, or that you thought they were stupid. if you want to argue that TES V objectively the worst, opinion holds little sway. If you want to argue that TES V is subjectively the worst, then this debate is ridiculous. You can't ever reach a conclusion in a subjective debate. because it;s unresolved as long as you disagree.

Maybe you want to argue that Oblivion is better than Skyrim that without the previous games it could never have been as good. There's nothing wrong with that approach. But the motion you set (which you deliberately changed at one point before it was accepted) asserts that Skyrim is inferior to every other Elder Scrolls game. You're going to have to mention more than just one other game to prove that kind of claim.

See you next round,

Debate Round No. 4


Yes the dragonborn can be replaced but how long will that take? Miraak won't be able to defeat Alduin and you would know that if you played trough the dlc. Tell me when the next dragonborn will appear. If you talked to the characters in the main quest they all sound a bit stressed and always demands you to go on a place in the fastest way possible. Almost like they are in a hurry. It's also rare for more than one to appear in a era. Will the other dragonborn be born in time? I think not.

I took Dx:hr as an example and you knew that. Don't act like you did not know.But I know why you took my example so seriously. Notice viewers that my opponent did not mention my Dark brotherhood arguments and instead took a example that he made into a whole new argument. But I know what you are gonna do in the last round. You are going to say why you didn't think the black brotherhood was bad in the last round so that I won't get to give you an argument.

"Your argument for why Skyrim is the worst Elder Scrolls game is that you thought dual wielding was silly." No it is one of my
many reasons why I think Skyrim is the worst Tes game.
Yes the briarheart might be one of the hardest enemies but that does not make me laugh when I see them. If you had enough knowledge about how double wield works you might also be one that laughs.

What is the point of that freedom? Think about it. Yes I get to choice if I want to be a werewolf or not but that choice does not really matter does it? It does not and here is why.
Choices only matters when they make an impact on something. If they don't they are useless. Think about it! It's such an useless bit of freedom that Bethesda could have forced a player into being a werewolf and it would not matter to the player.

So you mean that the fast travel is something that you have to use in order to not get bored of the game? That it should be used in a certain way? I agree. Bethesda did not really think about us that does not like fast travel. Skyrim does not support all playstyles. Skyrim does not support those who enjoyed going into adventure in morrwind without that feature.

Okay so you and I agree on that point. That the towns are nothing more than hubs. Bethesda knew this yet they said in one of the demos that the towns would feel alive.
You know what? The real game should be in towns, out in the wild and in the dungeons. Have you ever roleplayed in Oblivion? If you have you know why it is so important to have living breathing towns and how much fun it could be.
I'm a slow paced gamer. I could spend hours in anvil. Just in the day go out and have myself an adventure that I could not forget and later before 8 p.m I would go in the town, have a chat with the people and then sell my stuff and go to bed. Same with morrowind and even Online. I could do that in Skyrim but it is not as fun as in titles before it and after it because of the town and The NPCS boring one liners.

"while that might suit your roleplay". Let me correct you there. It suits one of my many roleplay styles. You see when I play Skyrim I always play different characters (that all ends up being dragonborn). One time I might play as a good guy. Another time I might play as an corrupt Imperial and one time I tried to play as an assassin. Bethesda should support all playstyles like Morrowind did no question about it. Yes the Npc can get kill by a dragon but if the player could get past the essential wall that would be great. Yes I would get a pretty empty world not like that matters to Bethesda, you or anyone. It only matters to me that I can enjoy the game without repeating a playstyle that I have already used. Yes it makes the quest list rather small but that is what is great with the freedom that you have mentioned plenty of times. Freedom is only good if the choices that I make matters if not the freedom might as well go out the window.

Okay then. ESO is part of the series but it is a great game for what it is. A mmo. The cities in that game feels even more alive than what Skyrim's cities does. Also mmos have sequels.

Yes I have opinions but I also brought you facts for an example.
Mmos have sequels.
Skyrim does not support all playstyles.
That the real game should be everywhere.
Skyrim towns does not feel like towns.
That the dual wielding is silly. (Learn how people actually used dual wielding before arguing).
That the freedom that skyrim offers is limited and choices often don't matter.

You want me to take other Tes games as an example?
Morrowind gave you freedom that made an impact depending on what choices you made and while most NPCS were boring you will find more interesting characters than all Skyrim put together. Map also offer a much more fun exploration because you can actually go and explore all direction and always find something interesting without a mountain in the way or a ton of water. I also want to say that it was paced in a good way. You start off as a weakling and later can defeat gods.
Eso is an great Mmo that give more freedom than any other mmo ever have.

Well that was my first debate! Thank you for accepting. I tough that it was quite fun.


It's not an accident that the blades seem so tense about everything. They're an aggressive faction and are often demanding of the player, especially delphine in early quests. They're reluctant to work with the greybeards and demand that you kill Parthunax. But you are not tied to their worries. Maybe a Dragonborn won't be born in time. Maybe Ysmir will rally some heroes to stop Alduin, or the Elder Scroll can propel him once more. It matters little to the player outside of that quest, and one of the main goals of TES V is to not tie down the player with the decisions of other characters too much.

You used HR as an example saying that if a game doesn't offer incentive to use a certain path, no one will take it. The reason DB missions start with gold early is because in early game gold is still hard to come by. Rewards often scale with level, so flat gold is a good enough incentive until the player needs more permanent bonuses such as Shadowmere, given to the player as the stakes raise.

Saying you find dual wielding silly is not a flaw in the game. If you laugh at something it doesn't make it a flaw, and while I could try and call certain aspects of the game cool, I won't. What little I know of dual wielding is from a sword making friends who I've sparred with once or twice. Yeah, a parry mechanic would have been in order if it was going to be realistic, but that's a different combat engine.

Freedom is power in a lot of games, especially open world games. Skyrim designs to make the player a force of nature, and if a side quest barred you from certain styles of play, it would interfere too much with that power fantasy.

I was worried that I didn't know enough about Morrowind for this, and I decided to install it since it had been sitting in my library for ages. I must say, the sense of exploration is really hampered when you move at a snail's pace through a repeating texture with more fog than Silent Hill. And Cliff Racers. CLIFF RACERS. Along with the downright ridiculous limitation that you have a to-hit chance when swinging a sword at point blank against even stationary targets, even with a fatigue/longblade build I couldn't land a hit since it would float just above hit detection. Among other things, your hit chance is tied to your stamina, and you drain stamina if you move any faster than walking pace: the only way to regain it is to stand still.The reason Skyrim has less focus on towns is because it's no longer compulsory. The old games are so stiff until you level agility and acrobatics. But outside of graphical quality, Skyrim still looks and feels better. Movement is smooth, you don't have buy an engagement ring for your starting class, and my characters don't walk like they've Stevie Wonder's Superstition stuck in their heads.

As an MMO, ESO is sub-par. It tries to play itself off as another Elder Scrolls, but fails since these games are a single player experience. It was also paywall heavy: not getting the Imperial Edition meant a decent horse would cost you upwards of 10,000, gold from drops being scarce since players would often crowd around mobs waiting for them to respawn, and items could only drop for one player. And as an MMO, you couldn't free roam since the areas are levelled, so there is always a set path.

This was a nice debate: it's not common that somewhere brings a video game to the discussion, so hit me up next time you have a topic like this.


Debate Round No. 5
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by Duncan 2 years ago
You'll have to explain what you mean by casual first.
Posted by Preston 2 years ago
you just cherry picked! what about 1.1 Before The Elder Scrolls
1.2 Arena
1.3 Daggerfall
1.4 Battlespire and Redguard
1.5 Morrowind
1.6 Oblivion
1.7 Skyrim
1.8 Online
1.9 Legends
No votes have been placed for this debate.