The Instigator
NSG
Pro (for)
Winning
36 Points
The Contender
SocialistRI82
Con (against)
Losing
27 Points

Smart men prefer to marry/date smart women than dumb women.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/24/2007 Category: Society
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 8,889 times Debate No: 966
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (19)
Votes (21)

 

NSG

Pro

Media, news have given us an impression that men have little problem "marrying/dating down": seeking out wives/girlfriends who are less intelligent and financially dependent yet adoring. So what happens when more and more women themselves become wealthy, educated and ambitious?

When single successful women in their 20s and 30s meet for dinner and between classes to talk about love and relationship, they frequently ask themselves: Are men intimidated by smart women? Is he going to break up with me when he finds out I make more than he does? Are there men out there who are actually attracted to my intelligence and share my goals and ambitions for the future.

Are men having a hard time accept women can have both brian and beauty? Are high-achieving women at a disadvantage in the marriage/dating market?

I don't believe so! I believe high-achieving women are more likely to get married and have happy, healthy relationships as they pursue their career dreams. Smart men are more likely to marry smart women!
SocialistRI82

Con

-Although this is a funny debate to be having, I'll debate it for the hell of it. I think that men are very egotistical by nature. Many men are intimidated by women who are smart and beautiful. They see female intelligence as a threat to a potential relationship. A smart, and good looking guy may think twice about getting involved with an intelligent woman. He may feel that his assets/reputation may be at risk of being reduced through a plot by a woman. He may come to distrust smart women on the merit that they will scheme and plot. Let us use Hilary Clinton as an example. She is in fact very smart. I wonder if she did not have any political aspirations whether she would have taken Bill for all he's worth. This is a case and point example of what I'm describing. Due to her intelligence she can manipulate, dominate, and keep in fear her husband Bill. Had Bill married as "dumb" woman he may not have had to deal with any of this simply because he could have lied, or manipulated her with his superior intellect. However this is not the case. Seeing as she is intelligent she can keep him under her thumb. Basically men fear, and are resistant to the concept of marrying "smart" women.
-The idea of marrying "down" as you describe it has a very simple concept, control. Men tend to marry "down" in an effort to maintain control of the relationship. He may have insecurities about her cheating, or being smarter, or having the control. Generally that is why men marry "down".
-Frankly your premise that smart men prefer smart women is wrong on its foundation. Smart men prefer what they determine they wish to seek in a woman. Smart men may favor looks over intelligence, or personality over intelligence, or whatever over intelligence. To say that for a man to be smart he must desire smart women is flawed, and false. Men seek what they find are desirable characteristics in women. I doubt that intelligence is the only factor being weighed.
-To put this as easily as possible, to each his own. Men pursue whoever they want.
-(Just to let you know I personally consider myself to be "smart" and I personally value intelligence in women. My girlfriend has much more schooling than I, and I consider her academically superior to me. We have a great relationship which is based on equality and love. I have spoken above as a general argument which some males do subscribe to.)
Debate Round No. 1
NSG

Pro

Merry Christmas SocialistRI82 and thank you for taking this challenge.:) I think you are a smart man!

Jane Austin, Pride and Prejudice - "It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a single man in possession of a good fortune must be in want of a wife".

Gentlemen prefer Brains.
You are right,"Smart men prefer what they determine they wish to seek in a woman". I believe that a smart man is looking for a best friend who will share his dreams for the future. In a smart man's ideal world, he 'd be able to have dinner with his wife and talk about what's going in at the office-his projects, his career-and ask her about hers in return. He is looking for some back-and-forth discussion, some advice, and a real sense of mutual engagement.
In a recent Mathc.com poll, 74 percent of women thought men would be intimidated by accomplished women, but a full 62 percent of men said no way: They aren't afraid of dating or marrying career women(Deborah Siegel,"The New Trophy Wife",Psychology Today, Feb. 2004).

Conventional wisdom has it that men are intimidated by, or less attracted to, women who makes as much money as they do or more. This thinking holds that men prefer the image of the male provider bringing home the bacon to an appreciative wife and children tucked away at home. But times are changing, and high-achieving young men don't perceive salary as an obstacle. For some high earners, it is a non issue, and for lower earners, it is an added plus!!
SocialistRI82

Con

The argument was that smart men prefer smart women. That assertion is claiming that to be a smart man you must prefer smart women. You cannot win a debate on that premise. I can find millions of men who are academically smart who prefer looks to brains. I understand your point and as a generalization I feel that what you have said SHOULD be true. Unfortunately for you and I alike that isn't how it works in society. We can simply use television as a way of applying your theory. We watch what we are attracted to. Whether it be C-SPAN, ESPN, the Food Channel, CNN, FOX, MTV, whatever. We watch what interests us. How would you guess a program highlighting a successful woman's career and life would compete against cinemax's sexually charged programming? The successful story of the intelligent woman's life should be what is watched, but men will overall flock to the dumbed down soft-core porn instead of watching that. I know the example is a bit vague in its application, but again many men will accept intellectual downgrades to looks. I agree that its unfortunate, and a bit egotistical, however it happens. I agree that its a tragedy that society has come to that, but it has. There is no way you could apply your argument to all smart men. It would fail 6 out of 10 men I would bet.
Debate Round No. 2
NSG

Pro

I understand that many men prefer looks to brian, but I didn't say that the smart women aren't pretty or dumb women are pretty. What a man fears is that the woman aims to his wallet! Would you be afraid of someone marrying you for your money? A smart/intelligent woman has financial flexibility ,therefore, more men might be attracted to the idea that she is less likely to be gunning for his wallet. Would you like to marry dumb women that have no hobbies, no friends, no good jobs?
Women with no hobbies = Women who have plenty of time to nag you
Women with no friends = Women who have plenty of time to nag you
Women with no good job = Women have plenty of time to nag you
An intelligent career women couldn't be able to nag you like the dumb ones, she would understand your business and see where you come from. She knows to separate business with personal life, she would be less likely to take it personal if you did spend more time in your work, coz she could be doing the same thing.

Today marriage is a choice, not an obligation. For a woman, a solid educational background and a good salary means she can be more selective; Instead of marrying a man for financial security or out of fear of being a spinster @ 30, women may now choose to marry for compatibility, love, or companionship. For men, successful women represent an equal partner with whom to share life, not a constant drain on their hand-earned money.

Thank you for debating with me, you are certainly an intelligent man and I am hoping to debate with you again in the future. =)
SocialistRI82

Con

I'll put this to bed now because I'm tired of beating this dead horse. The topic is "Smart men prefer to marry/date smart women than dumb women." You can't provide any factual evidence to support this claim. Smart men prefer whoever they want. Some are going to be "smart" and others will choose those not so smart. There is no " smart guy " aptitude test for women. They choose who they want. Whoever captures their heart. Intelligence is for some, but not all. Smart women are great, and yay for independent women. Don't make it sound as though for a man to be truely intelligent he must seek successful, smart, independent women. If you want males to seek intelligent women start doing speaches at high schools, and college functions. I think there are far more pressing matters for us to be concerned with at this stage of the game. Its been fun, but the novelty of this debate has worn off.
Debate Round No. 3
19 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by theonewhoknows43 8 years ago
theonewhoknows43
I think boths parties did not debate well. First of all what is the definiation of " smart "? Educated, but of what level? what field? what income?. What is the difintion of dumb? what income level? what education level? There is a diffrence between smart and wise. Intelleigence is over-rated and is itself not all emcompassing. In other word, being smart does not guarantee either male or female a happeir more complete and fullfilling relathionship with the opposite sex.
Posted by Dapperdan2007 9 years ago
Dapperdan2007
The Pro made a statement that is of much truth, but in it's wording it did leave holes. (I, in fact, consider myself a smart man who prefers smart women) I believe the con clearly won this debate on round 2 when pointing out that NSG defines being a smart man with the necessity of prefering smart women over dumb women.

"I think she is talking about the "real" smart men."

Using that arguement is a fallacy. I saw it first called as the "no true scotsman fallacy", so that's what I like to call it.

"Suppose I assert that no Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge. You counter this by pointing out that your friend Angus likes sugar with his porridge. I then say "Ah, yes, but no true Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge.

This is an example of an ad hoc change being used to shore up an assertion, combined with an attempt to shift the meaning of the words used original assertion; you might call it a combination of fallacies."
Posted by dorobo 9 years ago
dorobo
Good job on both sides.
I agree with NSG on this one, she is more convicing. In reality, many men marry down, but I think she is talking about the "real" smart men.
She was very careful about her wording- "smart women" instead of "SMARTER women".
Posted by beem0r 9 years ago
beem0r
I agree with pro. _All other things equal_, smart men far and away would prefer for a woman to be smart than not. Perhaps not 100%, but I would think it's overwhelmingly a true statement that smart men prefer smart women to dumb women.
Posted by chadn2n 9 years ago
chadn2n
ok honestly, im insulted with the topic. but not all smart guys want a dumb wife. no vote taken because i would probably go with what i believe other than who actually won
Posted by NSG 9 years ago
NSG
There are no other factors expect for "intelligent" and "dumb" on my title. I thought it's clear enough to eliminate other factors, I assumed "all else equal".
It's been fun too,lol.
Posted by killa_connor 9 years ago
killa_connor
I hate it when girls dumb themselves down because they are self conscious of their intelligence! The sad truth is that we live in a society that prefers their women in a position of subservience. Which would account for the fact that on average women are paid 75% of their male counterpart's salary.

I love it when I can geek out with girls!
Posted by dorobo 9 years ago
dorobo
It does depend much upon the maturity level, as Rousseau has said.
When I was young, I LOVE the "blondes"! XD
Posted by Rousseau 9 years ago
Rousseau
Personally, I think it depends much upon the maturity level and the stage in life of the guy. At the baser level of human mating, a man is just going around and looking for mates and ways to spread his seed. In this particular facet of life, a man will likely gravitate towards the more physically attractive women (who, and this isn't always true, generally tend to be less intelligent). However, as in this day and age it is more culturally accepted to eventually settle down, men start to look for engaging partners with endearing attributes that can last for a lifetime. These women tend to be the smarter ones, however it does go back to the point, to each his own. I do find that the majority of smart men go for smart women because they want someone to engage in thought at a deeper level. However I cannot apply that to all smarter men because I do not know everyone. I find that I would like a smarter woman (this kind of relies on the assumption that I'm smart :p) because of the intellectual stimulation I could glean from a smarter woman. As for whether I would want a woman smarter than me... honestly... ideally no I wouldn't, and that may be an ego thing, but I would be more than happy to settle for someone smarter than me, as long as other conditions were good as well. Just my two cents.
Posted by Tatarize 9 years ago
Tatarize
Well, no. Fear of being controlled probably takes a backseat to fear of being emasculated. Big strong man must dominate in order to be big, strong. I don't really get it, but I have seen some very smart men having very dumb views with this respect.
21 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by Jamcke 8 years ago
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