The Instigator
PowerPikachu21
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Perussi
Con (against)
Winning
3 Points

Smash Bros new characters

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
Perussi
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/31/2017 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 732 times Debate No: 99456
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (18)
Votes (1)

 

PowerPikachu21

Pro

I've came up with a down special for once!

*Ahem* Sorry about all of my forfeits. It's just that I run away when I'm afraid I'll lose. This is a debate for any good new Smash Bros fighters for Smash 5, which will probably be released somewhere in 2018. Anyways, here are the rules:

1) The character cannot be from the internet, real life, or from your own creation.

2) Your must make a move set of, at minumum, 4 Special moves (Up B, Neutral B, Side B, Down B), and a Final Smash. I'd prefer the move set to be canon to the character's original game or show.

3) You must give a good reason for your chosen character. Saying that it's cool, cute, "the best", etc. is a horrible reason, and will be ignored.

4) Your character can not have been in any previous Smash Bros game, so you can't choose Pichu from Melee, Solid Snake from Brawl, or any DLC characters from Smash 4. (Well, if the character only ever appeared as an Assist Trophy, you can choose them)

5) If you can't think of an argument, type in "Pass" or something along those lines before the 72 hours time limit runs out, so the debate can at least not freeze.

I think that's everything. My character is Kyubi from Yo-kai Watch, a video game series.
Perussi

Con

My character is Bonkers from the Kirby series. More specifically more like he appears in Kirby SuperStar Ultra as a helper.
Debate Round No. 1
PowerPikachu21

Pro

I'm looking forward to this debate. With that, here's what Kyubi's move set might be.

Neutral B; Flame Shot: Kyubi launches a ball of flame forward. It travels decently fast, and deals 6%.

Side B; Flame Charge: Kyubi ingulfs himself in fire, and dashes forward. It travels pretty far, and hits enemies multiple times until it ends. It has pretty good knockback, and deals a maximum of 16%. It can be used for horizontal recovery, but if used in mid-air, it can't be used again until Kyubi touches the ground, or gets hit.

Up B; Flame Warp: Kyubi disappears, then reappears a short distance away. It goes a bit farther than Shiek's up B. Flames appear before and after the warp, dealing 3% to opponents that touch them, and small knockback.

Down B; Stun Pulse: Kyubi snaps his fingers, stunning nearby foes. The higher the enemy's damage, the longer they're stunned, up to a maximum of 3 seconds, not counting mashing the controller to break free. If used less than 30 seconds after the previous Stun Pulse, the stun time decreases, to a minumum of 0.25 seconds. Using the move makes Kyubi vulernable for half a second, however, making the move quite punishable. The move also does 2% damage.

Final Smash; Inferno Eruption: Kyubi unleashes a storm of fireballs to rain down on the stage. The move is similar to Ness and Lucas's PK Starstorm in Brawl. Each fireball does 20%, and has incredible launching power.

Why Kyubi of all characters?

Yo-kai Watch is pretty popular in Japan, getting 3 games in the series, an app, and a cartoon. But on the internet, most people either have no idea what it is, or hate on it, calling me a "weeb". Having a character from Yo-kai Watch come to the Smash roster is a great way to advertise this series, possibly allowing Level-5 to have more support for their games.

If a Yo-kai ever got into the Smash roster, it would either be Kyubi or Venoct. But Kyubi has a bit more to work with, since he mainly uses fire attacks, and Venoct's only got his dragonsnake scarf. Plus, Kyubi's my favorite character in the cartoon, so that adds to the reason I want him.

[I can see my opponent is a fan of the Kirby series, and Bonkers could very well be in Smash 5. I wish him luck showing that a hammer wielding gorilla is a better candidate than a 3rd party nine tailed fox]

In case you have no idea what I'm talking about, here's Kyubi's wiki page: http://yokaiwatch.wikia.com...;
Perussi

Con

Bonker's basic move set:

Neutral B: Hammer
Bonkers quickly brings down the hammer in front of him. It doesn't go really far. The first strike deals 8% and knocks back very little. Bonkers can continue to strike and each other strike deals 3%, each making the opponent flinch and be knocked back a little more. The hits are delayed every fourth of a second besides before the second which is a third. To hit consecutively the opponent must be close. The closer the more hits possible but the opponent can still move a little inbetween hits.

Side B: Hammer Swing
Bonkers moves forward a good length and spins around with the hammer twice while doing so. Has ok knockback and deals 6%. Before moving there is a slight delay enough for someone with good reflexes and a fast jumper to evade. Once moving bonkers can only be slowed to about 75% the way through the moving. It can hit an opponent twice if they are knocked back into it. A second hit knocks the opponent back further and deals 8%. The knockback is mostly vertical.

Up B: Hammer Flip
Bonkers freezes for half a second while he holds back his hammer as it lights on fire then swings it at a 45 degree angle with passable range. It deals 32% damage and has large knockback. Will KO an opponent with 150% or more damage. It is directed at that angle so if an opponent is close but not right next to bonkers on the ground then it will not hit but Hammer would.

Down B: Charged Hammer
Deals 4% uncharged but increases to up to 50% gradually in 1.75 seconds. The attack is executed when B is released. If not released before two seconds he just goes back to default position.

Final Smash: Hammer Throw
Bonkers spins three times moving a little forward and then throws his hammer with pretty much un-dodgable speed at a 30 degree angle in the direction faced. For aiming if up was pressed when the hammer was throw it is 40 degrees but if down was then it is 20. Bonkers can also throw backwards if holding the direction opposite to the initially faced direction. Bonkers telegraphs everything and holding the opposite direction does not affect bonker's moving. The throw deals 40% if it hits and has KO like launching power mostly horizontal and will travel, if flat, about a third of a larger medium stage. If the opposing player hits something like a wall after being launched they take 15% damage. If an opponent is launched into another the launched takes 10% and the hit player takes 20%. The opponent is certaily KOed if they are hit and have 125% or more damage. The hammer goes through walls and an unlimited amount of players with only -2 damage each. While dealing immense damage it is predictable but if you make a mistake, goodbye.

Why this bonkers guy?

Kirby is getting pretty big, we could throw Bonkers in there. But Bonkers? In Kirby SuperStar Ultra the most deadly power when you know how to use it is the hammer ability. It is fast striking and seriously packs a punch while making systematic work of an opponent. It is the king of the powers of that game. It is something you don't want to take chances with because of it's good speed. It is also great for hitting rapidly and repeatedly. Entering this into the Smash Bros series would be a great addition that you would definately want to keep your distance from.
Debate Round No. 2
PowerPikachu21

Pro

The move set is literally hammer attacks? Welp. Time for the cross examination.

Examination:

"Neutral B: Hammer
Bonkers quickly brings down the hammer in front of him. It doesn't go really far. The first strike deals 8% and knocks back very little."

This seems like... not the best Neutral B to be created. I'd imagine this is similar to a character's jab in terms of mechanics. I don't know the exact trajectory, nor exactly how much damage this would yield, but I'd say a full Hammer Neutral B would deal over 15 damage. I could see this being a plausible thing Bonkers can do in Smash, though.

" Side B: Hammer Swing
Bonkers moves forward a good length and spins around with the hammer twice while doing so. Has ok knockback and deals 6%."

So basically the dash attack with the Hammer Copy Ability. But why must this be a Side B, and not a dash attack in Smash Bros? (For reference, Smash Bros isn't a one button game; there's the A button as well.)

" Up B: Hammer Flip
Bonkers freezes for half a second while he holds back his hammer as it lights on fire then swings it at a 45 degree angle with passable range. It deals 32% damage and has large knockback."

I'd make a point about Bonkers's lack of recovery options, but then Little Mac exists. But the "150% KO" thing... that's a high percent, believe it or not. This attack seems like a KO option, but apparently not.

"Down B: Charged Hammer
Deals 4% uncharged but increases to up to 50% gradually in 1.75 seconds. The attack is executed when B is released. If not released before two seconds he just goes back to default position."

That's a 4th of a second to get in that 50%! 1 second isn't that much time. I'd imagine the 1 second point would be around 26%. But this attack seems not that useful.

"Final Smash: Hammer Throw
Bonkers spins three times moving a little forward and then throws his hammer with pretty much un-dodgable speed at a 30 degree angle in the direction faced."

KOs at 125%? According to this video by Nintendo Unity, most Final Smashes KO before 90%. And the point of a Final Smash is to KO the opponent long before a Smash attack would. You even state that the Final Smash is predictable, so this is hardly worthwhile! [Source: https://www.youtube.com...] At least the damage seems like a lot. (Except in Smash Bros, hitting a wall doesn't do any damage. You just bounce between the floor and ceiling if you get launched upwards, like in Skyworld or Luigi's Mansion stages)

Enough grilling the details in the move set. What's the most important is the Why. Why is Bonkers such a good idea to be put in Smash?

"Kirby is getting pretty big, we could throw Bonkers in there. But Bonkers?"

Bonkers is the only way to get the Hammer ability in the Kirby series, so he's kind of a big deal.

"In Kirby SuperStar Ultra the most deadly power when you know how to use it is the hammer ability. It is fast striking and seriously packs a punch while making systematic work of an opponent. It is the king of the powers of that game."

And not Triple Deluxe and Planet Robobot? Nintendo Unity likes this ability too, though Mirror is a great ability as well, able to reflect projectiles.

"Entering this into the Smash Bros series would be a great addition that you would definately want to keep your distance from."

So because the Hammer ability is good, we should add Bonkers? Eh... not really buying it. I see where you're coming from, sure. But I think Kyubi's got a better reason: Yo-kai Watch isn't well known outside of Japan, and getting a character from Yo-kai Watch as a character for Smash Bros is the perfect advertisement.

Nintendo has plenty of characters advertised, like Starfy (loved that game as a kid), Dillon the Armadillo, Cloud from Final Fantasy got in, and Shovel Knight seems plausible to be a new candidate for Smash Bros. 1 more game series would not hurt. So I say let the nine tailed fox have his time to shine.

So what do you say? Anything wrong with my arguments for Kyubi?
Perussi

Con

*note - 80 or 75 percent? that wasn't set in stone, the cerainty of the KO

Neutral B; Flame Shot: Kyubi launches a ball of flame forward. It travels decently fast, and deals 6%.

K

Side B; Flame Charge: Kyubi ingulfs himself in fire, and dashes forward. It travels pretty far, and hits enemies multiple times until it ends. It has pretty good knockback, and deals a maximum of 16%. It can be used for horizontal recovery, but if used in mid-air, it can't be used again until Kyubi touches the ground, or gets hit.

Might be a little uncontrollable.

Up B; Flame Warp: Kyubi disappears, then reappears a short distance away. It goes a bit farther than Shiek's up B. Flames appear before and after the warp, dealing 3% to opponents that touch them, and small knockback.

Ninja???

Down B; Stun Pulse: Kyubi snaps his fingers, stunning nearby foes. The higher the enemy's damage, the longer they're stunned, up to a maximum of 3 seconds, not counting mashing the controller to break free. If used less than 30 seconds after the previous Stun Pulse, the stun time decreases, to a minumum of 0.25 seconds. Using the move makes Kyubi vulernable for half a second, however, making the move quite punishable. The move also does 2% damage.

Just too weak.

Final Smash; Inferno Eruption: Kyubi unleashes a storm of fireballs to rain down on the stage. The move is similar to Ness and Lucas's PK Starstorm in Brawl. Each fireball does 20%, and has incredible launching power.

I actually don't have really anything against your character except mine is stronger and can match Kyubi's speed. And Bonker's moves are more practical.
Debate Round No. 3
PowerPikachu21

Pro

Alright. Let's see what Perussi thinks of Kyubi in Smash Bros.

Me: "Side B; Flame Charge: Kyubi ingulfs himself in fire, and dashes forward. It travels pretty far, and hits enemies multiple times until it ends. It has pretty good knockback, and deals a maximum of 16%. It can be used for horizontal recovery, but if used in mid-air, it can't be used again until Kyubi touches the ground, or gets hit."

Perussi: "Might be a little uncontrollable."

It's sort of like Charizard's Flare Blitz, though closer to the Dragon Rush alternate Side B.

Me: "Up B; Flame Warp: Kyubi disappears, then reappears a short distance away. It goes a bit farther than Shiek's up B. Flames appear before and after the warp, dealing 3% to opponents that touch them, and small knockback."

Perussi: "Ninja???"

Guess I should be more clear. In Yo-kai Watch, Yo-kai can teleport with a puff of purplish smoke. Kyubi's Flame Warp is actually based on this ability. Kyubi is not Naruto.

Me: "Down B; Stun Pulse: Kyubi snaps his fingers, stunning nearby foes. The higher the enemy's damage, the longer they're stunned, up to a maximum of 3 seconds, not counting mashing the controller to break free. If used less than 30 seconds after the previous Stun Pulse, the stun time decreases, to a minumum of 0.25 seconds. Using the move makes Kyubi vulernable for half a second, however, making the move quite punishable. The move also does 2% damage."

Perussi: "Just too weak."

Conceded. The stun time should be a max of 6 seconds instead. Should be enough time to at least land a Smash Attack. When mashing at maximum potential, it would only stun for 3 seconds at max. At 100%, the opponent would be high enough for the maximum stun time.

Also, the Down B comes from, believe it or not, the anime. Kyubi has mind manipulation abilities, mainly used to make people forget things.

Perussi: "I actually don't have really anything against your character except mine is stronger and can match Kyubi's speed. And Bonker's moves are more practical."

Kyubi would indeed make a good character for Smash Bros. Bonkers however... isn't King Dedede the hammer wielder already? We don't really need Bonkers in Smash Bros, now that I think about it.

But I think we can all agree that Kyubi's the better candidate for Smash Bros. It would get more fans of the Yo-kai Watch franchise, and support the release of Yo-kai Watch 3 in North America. Kirby's already popular as he's going to get, and adding Bonkers would just be a waste of a slot. Vote for the fox!
Perussi

Con

Bonkers would quickly become a favorite. Know what would be genius and large companyish? Plush. Make stuffed toys of Smash Bros stuff. Bonkers can be made cute and charming. And little kids + smashing + toon toughie = little boy favorite. Bonkers SMAAAAASH! And still, i believe bonkers could best kyubi given players of the same skill level.

Rebuttal: Dedede is nothing like bonkers. We also have 2 links. We also have aura sphere from lucario and samus's chargable blaster. Two hammer dudes is not an issue. And neither of them are needed, we are suggestign an addition.

Conclusion: Bonkers is simply better.
Debate Round No. 4
18 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Perussi 1 year ago
Perussi
(sorry though, i realize i was wrong but that was pretty bad voting)
Posted by Perussi 1 year ago
Perussi
I felt like i was on DDO for no reason and just left. I thought you were retaliating for not finishing recking you in the rap battle. Even if i was wrong and a little too quick triggered deal with it. I'm teh baws. I'm the lord of all trolls.
Posted by Perussi 1 year ago
Perussi
Da freak kind of RFD is this?: I had one criteria for my vote: Creativity. I found Kyubi a much more creative pick and moveset than Bonkers. Near the end Perussi had some capitalization errors. Good job, PowerPikachu21!
Posted by Mharman 1 year ago
Mharman
A little bit ticked, BRO.
Posted by Perussi 1 year ago
Perussi
U mad bro?
Posted by Mharman 1 year ago
Mharman
<strong>"Mharman has vote bombed me because i forfeited a debate in all of my debates. Smite please. I think he should also get a warning about his voting rights being taken away. There is no coincidence. And no reason other than he doesn't like i didn't finish it. (i have left DDO but commented on something today)"</strong>

Explain to me why that is a vote bomb and why I should be smited.
Posted by whiteflame 1 year ago
whiteflame
*******************************************************************
>Reported vote: Mharman// Mod action: Removed<

4 points to Pro (S&G, Arguments). Reasons for voting decision: I had one criteria for my vote: Creativity. I found Kyubi a much more creative pick and moveset than Bonkers. Near the end Perussi had some capitalization errors. Good job, PowerPikachu21!

[*Reason for removal*] While the voter is allowed to use any criteria they wish to determine the outcome, so long as they clearly compare the arguments of the two debaters, the voter does not sufficiently explain either point allocation. The voter is required to specifically assess arguments made by both debaters. Merely stating that they found that one side had the more creative pick is not sufficient. Nor is stating that one side had some capitalization errors sufficient for S&G. The only way that point can be awarded is if one side"s writing made it difficult to understand their argument.
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Posted by PowerPikachu21 1 year ago
PowerPikachu21
Well, minor errors don't justify S&G points, but your argument explanation is good, Mharman. I do agree that my moveset had some creative areas like the Down B Stun Pulse, compared to Hammer and Hammer again. But, as a loyal vote checker, I'll see what whiteflame says.
Posted by JimShady 1 year ago
JimShady
I want to debate on this to, do it over again.
Posted by whiteflame 1 year ago
whiteflame
*******************************************************************
>Reported vote: Ragnar// Mod action: NOT Removed<

3 points to Con (Arguments). Reasons for voting decision: If I were playing a fighting game, would I rather have the character option of a mind controlling fire powered mutated fox with 9 tails, or a gorilla with a hammer... There was no breakdown of how they would compare to existing characters, save for the existence of a hammer wielding duck, thus their respective power levels are off the table. Moves list is a choice between nearly random, or one trick pony. Popularity of franchises is an odd one, because neither side argued which tactic is best for the production company making Smash Bros... There is overall a lack of a basis for comparison, aside from basic information that it's a fighting game named Smash Bros, and has such characters as Escape From New York Knock-Off... Going to side with the gorilla by a small margin, as he sounds more the type to smash things, which would probably fit into the synergy of a game about smashing family members.

[*Reason for non-removal*] The voter clearly analyzes the arguments made in the debate by both sides and makes a decision based on those arguments. That is sufficient.
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1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Ragnar 1 year ago
Ragnar
PowerPikachu21PerussiTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: If I were playing a fighting game, would I rather have the character option of a mind controlling fire powered mutated fox with 9 tails, or a gorilla with a hammer... There was no breakdown of how they would compare to existing characters, save for the existence of a hammer wielding duck, thus their respective power levels are off the table. Moves list is a choice between nearly random, or one trick pony. Popularity of franchises is an odd one, because neither side argued which tactic is best for the production company making Smash Bros... There is overall a lack of a basis for comparison, aside from basic information that it's a fighting game named Smash Bros, and has such characters as Escape From New York Knock-Off... Going to side with the gorilla by a small margin, as he sounds more the type to smash things, which would probably fit into the synergy of a game about smashing family members.