The Instigator
08tsuchiyar
Pro (for)
Winning
33 Points
The Contender
Rousseau
Con (against)
Losing
21 Points

Soccer is the Greatest Sport

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/9/2008 Category: Sports
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 9,749 times Debate No: 2515
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (18)
Votes (18)

 

08tsuchiyar

Pro

For the sake of clarity NFL Football=Football and FIFA football= Soccer.

I will begin my positive arguments now....

The sheer popularity is the primary reason it is the greatest. It is played in every country and watched in every country. Football does not even come close to the same popularity.

It is played and watched by all, rich or poor, young or old, Asian, Latino, white or African--It is truly played by everyone.

The simple iconic nature of soccer is amazing too. The pro players are heroes to people across the world. The most well known athlete is a soccer player. Beckham. Schumacher and Woods are the closest (if you could call it close).

I have lived in 5 countries in 4 continents and wherever I went I played soccer. The Cook Islands and Vanuatu in the South Pacific, Japan in Asia, Africa and the United States of America. I can make friends through soccer almost anywhere. Although I can make friends through any sport the truly international side of soccer makes it the greatest.

The most watched sports event? The world cup final. Almost a billion people. That's a billion people united by one sport, one match. It is truly the global sport.

The joy of football can not be shared as easily. Commercials break up the game and the equipment costs a lot more if you want to play it. Maybe the fact that poor people can play it makes it great. It doesn't discriminate.

Football is team sport, you need 50 players for an NFL team. It is stop and go. There is less fluidity and the team mates just remember the plan and execute it. That is the extent of the team work.

In soccer the players have to know with no pre-conceived plan of where to pass the ball, where to support your team mates and how to work as a team. Football is a sport where every man does his thing and they play. Soccer has more depth, spontaneity and variance. Football does not allow for it.

Finally the soccer player is more well rounded. He runs for 90 minutes with a max. 15 min break in between but football player plays a 1 hour game over 3-4 hours, then there are defensive, offensive and special teams players. The amount of time spent on the field is significantly less and the fitness required is far less then in soccer.

A linesman in football does not need as much speed but all soccer players need strength, speed, balance, intelligence and skill. Football players are not well rounded and that says something about the sport's make up. In soccer every player is always participating in almost all aspects of the game.
Rousseau

Con

First, let me thank my opponent for this debate. I would like to say that my personal beliefs don't lead me to disagree with or agree with my opponent, rather I took this debate for the challenge. Thanks for hosting :)

For the sake of argument, I will not claim that one sport is the best, but rather dispute the claim that Soccer is the greatest sport.

Let me secondly define greatest:

"highest in quality"

Princeton Word Net.

<<>>

With the advent of television, practically every sport is played in every country. Granted, worldwide, soccer may be the most popular, but that is arguable. Besides, who says that popularity coincides with greatness? Just an example off the top of my head (I can offer more later, if required), lets look to Bush's presidency. He was elected, not because he had shown a tremendous amount of skill (or greatness) but rather because he was popular. His name was recognizable, his party could get behind him, and he was the "right" religion. Does the fact that he was popular make him the best president? Hardly!
Additionally, Soccer has alot of recognition, whereas other sports created in America do not. European countries colonized a staggering amount of other countries, bringing with them their traditions (soccer). Conversely, had football or baseball been an European invention, it's likely we could have this exact same discussion with flipped stances. Popularity doesn't neccesarily coincide with greatness.

<<>>

Actually, the most popular athlete, in terms of name recognition, would probably be Michael Jordan. I'll go ahead and cite some sources for this: http://www.forbes.com...

This site talks about the best paid athletes. Keeping with the theme that greatness is "highest quality" it would make sense that the best quality players would make the most money, and therefore... a measure of greatness is money. The site lists the highest paid athlete as: Tiger Woods. No surprise there. Actually, the first spot to belong to a soccer player is at number 7, with Beckham.
Even if i concede that Beckham is the most popular, it isn't because of soccer.
http://www.paklinks.com...
The article says: "His (Beckham's) fan base goes far beyond sports; many of them don't even care about football."

<<>>

Commercial's mean that people watch the sport. Wouldn't this point mean that Football is more profitable? As for the cost of the equipment, that's all relative to the stage. If you play on a team, chances are you'll be payed for. If you're just playing in the yard, neither sport costs anything, save the ball.

Your last 4 paragraph's are all valid points, but I fail to see how they make Soccer the greatest. Additionally, they are faults witha singular sport; football. As your burden of proof, it's demanded that you prove that soccer is better than ALL sports. Not just football.

My points:

Keeping with the given definition, I'll argue that the quality of soccer isn't as high as other sports. Let's look at a list of best rivalries (Which is synonymous with quality. Better rivalries = better games = better quality).
http://espn.go.com...
Not a single soccer team on there.

I'll reserve the right to bring up other points in my next post, as I have to leave. Good luck!
Debate Round No. 1
08tsuchiyar

Pro

I think the popularity of soccer is what makes it great. The difference between bush and soccer is rather obvious in my mind. Bush's popularity was mostly American and the more foreigners heard about him the less popular he was. While soccer is far more popular.

"Popularity doesn't neccesarily coincide with greatness." I agree with that statement. That does not mean the popularity of soccer doesn't make it great. I think we understand that sport's is primarily a social activity. Whether you play or watch it is about having fun with other people. (most of the time) Therefor the more people you can play with, the greater the sport is. You can easily find people to play soccer with in almost any country, unlike other sports. It is far more social which makes it much more fun. You can watch and play soccer almost anywhere, that makes it great. The ability to do that comes from widespread popularity.

The commercial success of other sports just shows the relation between size of the audience and the type of audience. Quite a few Upper-middle class people watch the other sports while soccer has people across the economic spectrum, which also shows how widespread it is.

The could see the Michael Jordan is the most recognized athlete and I also would agree that ice hockey, basketball and a lot of other sports have well-rounded athletes but the popularity is what makes soccer more successful.

The wage is a little lower for soccer's top players but in leagues such as the English Premier league $2 billion was spent on wages for players. That's twenty teams paying $2 Billion.
Also soccer teams pay another bill for players. They pay for player transfers. Which is very different from football and other sports where wages are the only cost. When you combine wages and player transfer fees the amount of money spent on top players would be equivelant if not higher then that of other sports. I have no proof but I will say the $54 million, the highest transfer fee every paid, is very high.

There is only one NFL, NHL, and a few competitions in other sports but they are mostly monopolized competitions. Few tournaments and leagues over lap, thus making each other appear smaller, but when you combine all the soccer leagues and combine the wages it would be much higher then the total amount paid to any other sport, again no proof but logic says so in my mind.
Rousseau

Con

<<>>

The same is true for soccer. Soccer's popularity is mainly foreign and the more Americans hear about it, the less popular it becomes in America. Not only this, but popularity doesn't make a sport higher in quality. This was my point: That popularity doesn't make quality. You haven't offered a definition of greatest, and therefore mine will have to be accepted as the true definition. Following this logic, your burden of proof is to prove that Soccer is the highest quality sport, which you haven't yet. You have just said:

1. Soccer is the most popular
2. Soccer is more widespread
3. Soccer is played at lower levels more often

None of these prove that soccer is the highest quality sport. Therefore, I have won this debate off of this alone. Additionally, you must prove that Soccer is greater than each individual sport. Even assuming you won all the arguments, you haven't yet compared soccer to baseball or basketball or hockey. Bringing up any new arguments or points in your last speech would be highly unorthodox and frowned upon. Therefore I have won the debate.

<<>>

I agree with this. The more people you can play with, the more fun it is. However, I would argue that sports in general don't have a set amount of people required to play them. Most sports you can play with about 6+ people. Soccer doesn't uniquely require more people to play it, if anything football or baseball does.

<<>>

Ah, but to play Soccer, you require goals of some sort. Sure, you can use trees or something, but it's best with goals. With football or baseball, you don't really need anything besides the ball (and bases in baseball, which are easy to get). Therefore, the universal ability to play the sport actually isn't the highest in Soccer.

<<>>

I disagree with this statement. I don't think that Soccer is more social, as sociality depends on the person watching. Any fan of any sport can organize a group to watch said sport, and therefore... soccer isn't uniquely more social. Again, this doesn't actually answer the resolution.

<<>>

Again, this has no reflection upon the quality. Popularity doesn't make good quality. In fact, having a lot of upper middle class people liking the other sports kind of argues against you. The richer you are, the higher quality you demand, no? Therefore, sense upper-class people like other sports, it stands to reason that other sports are higher quality.

<<>

Alright, so the entire "money" point is kind of in my favor. I provided evidence, and you didn't. Therefore, my arguments are more backed up, and I should win the point. I would like to see evidence for your claims.

<<>>

To sum this up: Soccer is played more at lower levels in lesser leagues. This is 100% trues, and is a point in my favor. This leads me to think that on average, if there are lower soccer leagues, the entire quality of soccer is pulled down, because the cream of the crop aren't the only playing. In the NFL, MLB, NBA, and NHL, only the best of the best get in there. Therefore, the overall quality is better, because there aren't as many little leagues taking up the worse players and letting them play for a living.

Thanks for a good debate, and good luck.
Debate Round No. 2
08tsuchiyar

Pro

I was hoping for a more practical debate. I understand your logic about proving that soccer trumps all sports but rather then wasting everyone's time you should have been able to present at least one other sport which is greater or present as many as you would like that you believe are better then soccer and why. Then I could address those. It would have provided a more orthodox and meaningful debate.

-Instead you kept attacking my points, which is understandable but with only one point of yours (which I forgot to address the last round, oops).

I will not bring up new points but I will defend my previous points and in the process defend my position. I don't think you can really declare victory at this point and nor is that very orthodox but let's continue to the topic at hand.

Let me attempt to clarify why I believe popularity is a show for quality in sports and what I meant by the ability to play it across the world.

-the popularity and widespread nature of soccer means that it can be played with more people. What I mean by that is the popularity makes it more unifying and social. I share soccer with over 1 Billion people. This is a unifying factor for all of those people. The widespread nature allows people to have a means of understanding each other. Two nations, the most bitter rivals 60 yrs ago recently co-hosted the largest sports tournament on the planet, the world cup. Korea and Japan. This created a unity through the best means possible, soccer. I ask you to present me with one sport which has the popularity and therefore the power to unify people.
I was not clear to you in previous rounds about this which I am sure will lead to my defeat in this debate (for the popular vote of course).

When I said you can play soccer anywhere in the world what I meant was that you can find people to play with. If I took one random person in the world, they would more likely say yes to playing soccer then any other sport, because it is the most popular. This means I share the sport with more people. I can enjoy and be connected to more people. (Man I really wish I said this in previous rounds, I really just wasn't clear!!!!)

By soccer being more social I meant what I said above. That I share it with more people.

"Again, this has no reflection upon the quality. Popularity doesn't make good quality. In fact, having a lot of upper middle class people liking the other sports kind of argues against you. The richer you are, the higher quality you demand, no? Therefore, sense upper-class people like other sports, it stands to reason that other sports are higher quality."

This is a great point but there is a gap in your thinking. You assume they like it because it is higher quality but this is not the case. The popularity of soccer is not truly very different across the economic spectrum and I believe is the most popular sport in any economic class. The reason I said the upper middle class watch other sports is due to environment. They have the options of choosing other sports but since these decisions are individual it says nothing about the quality/greatness of soccer. The reason I say soccer is the best is because of the popularity and the popularity may or may not exist for the right reasons such as the best sport design but for the nature of the sport.

Basically all it says is, America, the nation which consumes the most, likes football, it says little about quality.

No one can truly convince me that in terms of the design of the way the sport is played makes any sport the greatest because it is opinion based but I will say that the primary factor affecting the popularity of one sport or another is environment. If any other sport were the most popular sport in the world I would argue for that sport even if I enjoyed soccer the most, because the other sport would show a more useful and great potential to it then soccer.

Although i provided no evidence on the economic evidence I will say that I still believe the economic power of soccer is much greater then that of any other sport.

http://www.forbes.com...
-In the article they do state that football is the most profitable sport. Ouch....
Forbes then says
http://www.forbes.com...
Ooh....
It is simply obvious that there is a whole lot more money in soccer then other sports. The average may be lower but in the other sports there is only one primary league and those no competition as I said earlier.

Also the monopolized nature of other sports doesn't reflect on the true popularity of the sport.

These are new arguments not new points....just to be sure that I'm not introducing any novel ideas.

"To sum this up: Soccer is played more at lower levels in lesser leagues. This is 100% trues, and is a point in my favor. This leads me to think that on average, if there are lower soccer leagues, the entire quality of soccer is pulled down, because the cream of the crop aren't the only playing. In the NFL, MLB, NBA, and NHL, only the best of the best get in there. Therefore, the overall quality is better, because there aren't as many little leagues taking up the worse players and letting them play for a living."

Without being too negative, I think this is counter intuitive....
Here's why....
-Soccer leagues (except in the US) are set up such that the best and most successful teams rise to the top and the poor teams fall through the ranks through promotion and relegation. This allows for the best to rise to the top in a more efficient (in terms of sports) but costly manner (for the teams) this does not happen as effectively in other sports because it is not set up in the same manner and if it is, it does not have the right size for this to happen.
-The fact that the "worse players" earn a living means there is a demand for it, thus he must have some quality. No?
-The monopolized sports have, players who make it and players who don't. They have a small middle range, while soccer does, this does mean the average quality of soccer is lowered but soccer overall has approximately the same if not higher quality because of this.
-the largest and most successful soccer clubs are very consistent in their success. Only the cream of the crop teams can remain above the relegation zone and thus be worthy of remaining in the top.
-While US sports almost reward the failing teams with parity by spreading the wealth and awarding them the opportunity to chose the top potential players. This rewards poor teams. (by poor I mean bad not the opposite of rich)
-football has its fair share of bad players who are on the large teams who would probably be playing on a lower level team if it weren't for the fact that there is only one pro league. Soccer allows variety.

Addressing your previous point about rivalries I must say that it is an extremely biased report by an American company. The most well supported teams in the world which rival each other are probably in fact the best rivalries and soccer teams are the best supported. This means that soccer has the greatest rivalries. Rivalries=passion=hooligans(Which sort of denies you a point but brings up a bad part of soccer).

And damn I wish I chose more rounds. I could debate this again if you want. Because I thoroughly enjoyed this and I pretty much screwed myself and the debate over with the earlier rounds, I apologize for my poor showing in that aspect but I hope I made it up with this round. Good
Rousseau

Con

Rousseau forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
18 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Rousseau 9 years ago
Rousseau
Actually, it appears I hadn't voted in the first place (On the MJ debate). Oh well, I'll still seriously consider voting for you.

The one difference is that in this debate, Pro didn't ask me to advocate one, whereas Black_Lightning may have (I honestly forget).
Posted by Rousseau 9 years ago
Rousseau
Heh, you got me there.

I'm sure I could go ahead and argue about some merit of debate, but I think you're approach is warranted enough.

So, tell you what. Well, I really wish there was some way to remove my vote from the other debate, but without that option... I'll just change my vote to you.

Looking forward to your future debates.
Posted by Danielle 9 years ago
Danielle
Rousseau, I found this particular statement of yours to be interesting:

"For the sake of argument, I will not claim that one sport is the best, but rather dispute the claim that Soccer is the greatest sport."

Especially because in my debate refuting that Michael Jackson was the "best pop singer ever," you explained in the comments section that the title infered a necessary comparison.
Posted by Rousseau 9 years ago
Rousseau
Haha, nah I think it'll be fine. After the verbal reprimands I give people they tend to not comment back :P

Anyway, I'm looking forward to more debates with you! I enjoy your analysis and rhetoric!
Posted by 08tsuchiyar 9 years ago
08tsuchiyar
Wow....he really is blond!

Some people just need to enjoy this not get personal or too involved. It's just a fun thing for me....sheesh.

Should I hold you back Rousseau? Cause you sound like you're about to rip in to him. lol
Posted by Rousseau 9 years ago
Rousseau
Thank you for completely disregarding any and all arguments made in the round, blond_guy. I'm not saying that I won arguments (not saying I didn't either), but when you make your own points in the comment section and then I see a vote against me, it leads me to believe you didn't even read what I said. Contrary to whatever you believe, the entire purpose of debate is arguments. If we just asked people what they though, we could instead have www.poll.com.

What I tend to do when faced with this problem, is to look at the person's other debates and decide how informed you are. I have decided you are not particularly well informed, as you seem to have regurgitated views from others. Additionally, you are 14, and while this isn't an absolute indicator os ignorance, it certaintly doesn't help. Lastly, you've lost (rightly so) all but one debate.

If you would like to debate me on the topic, or any topic, feel free to. While I'm not confident I could beat 08tsuchlyar, I'm confident I could beat you.
Posted by blond_guy 9 years ago
blond_guy
please! the world cup is watched all over the world. It's the sports event, or anything that ever goes on T.V. for the matter, that is watched the most worldwide.

Like they say all over Europe "Soccer is the king sport"
Posted by Rousseau 9 years ago
Rousseau
Woah, my bad entirely. I completely forgot this round. I'll just not vote..
Posted by Rousseau 9 years ago
Rousseau
Yeah, thats how I took the debate! :D
Posted by 08tsuchiyar 9 years ago
08tsuchiyar
I guess I was leaving myself open but it was interesting....
BTW, I was the guy who commented on your African water debate from Africa.
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