The Instigator
RadicalViews
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
CharlottePrynne
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Socialism in America

Do you like this debate?NoYes+0
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 0 votes the winner is...
It's a Tie!
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/24/2013 Category: Politics
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 523 times Debate No: 31655
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (0)
Votes (0)

 

RadicalViews

Pro

Please try to be understanding on this topic and control your anger. In return, I will do the same. I am very fascinated with the works of Karl Marx and the political concepts of socialism. Marx believed that a socialistic revolution was ultimately where the road to democracy would end. He also believed that it was inevitable for every country that desired democracy. The way wealth is distributed in America absolutely disgusts me. I feel with every new generation of Americans, it becomes more and more apparent and people seem to care about it more. Although Marx believed it would happen in America sooner, i believe that it is still possible in America for the workers to join together and take control of the means of productions and take control of the state itself. I at least think it is inevitable that over time, America will become a more socialistic democracy. I myself see Capitalism as a system where fraud is not only possible but encouraged. It's all about money, which makes people do terrible things to get ahead. The Conservative Republican idea that everyone in America has an equal chance to success is absolute nonsense in my mind. I will digress now as i am doing what i said i would not; becoming angry. I realize that In America we are taught that socialism is bad and evil even without truly understanding it. It's all propaganda to me. Rich people love Capitalism because well, the rich get richer. When compared side by side, I tend to see a lot more evils in the system of capitalism. I would love to hear anyone's opinion on this.
CharlottePrynne

Con

I'd like to say that I start on this very tentatively. I'm an extremely new member, so if I do anything wrong, please point it out as this is my first time debating.

Alright, so what you're arguing, correct me if I'm wrong, is that capitalism is immoral and that America would be better off with a socialist government.

First off, it is a very romantic notion that Marx proposed.
Socialism: where every man is truly equal and every child is no longer starving. Every man gets the same pay.
But when you push down on one end, something else will pop up. People are, after all, people. If you get the same pay for every job and the same amount of food, there will definitely be someone who will slack off for the sake of slacking off. If we all get the same pay, then what is there to stop this? What is there to drive the ambition of people? You cannot punish a man for slacking off. That is irrational.
And please...state your evidence to support the idea that fraud is encouraged in capitalism.
The same can be found in socialism. In any system, really, if you intend to look for fraud, you will find it. More so even in socialism.
Let me go back to capitalism for a second here. You are assuming here, that the poor become poorer in this government and that the rich become richer. Let me tell you that in this capitalistic world, that there are opportunities. Call me optimistic, but every person, every janitor, has the ability to learn the trade from his boss, watch and learn, and proceed to build up their own business. Every person. Success is built into a person's character. Nothing else.
If you want to succeed, you shall.
You forget also, that there are people happy with their station in life. Happy with a mundane job and a clear-cut purpose in life. There is a place for each personality and each job.
Socialism allows no room for this. More than that, socialism allows the man who works harder to receive the same amount of pay as the man who doesn't work at all.
I do not see evils in capitalism, although there are flaws. Call them evil if you want to. I do, however, see serious, serious flaws in socialism.
Debate Round No. 1
RadicalViews

Pro

Fraud is prevalent everywhere in capitalism. The unregulated dividend market that was a main reason for the economy's collapse was filled with fraud. Wall street investors were basically gambling with the economy. Companies were basically placing bets on each others stock. It was a completely unregulated market that was completely hidden from the public. A lot of the companies and investors that bought theses dividends didn't even know what they were buying and assumed it was a form of insurance agreement between them and another company. This seems pretty fraudulent to me.
I agree with a lot of things you said and completely respect your opinions. Karl Marx sad some things about workers in a Capitalism system that were actually scarily accurate. Work becomes the life of a capitalistic worker. They want o work as much as they can to get as much money as they can. Workers often don't even use their vacation days or time off because work has began to control their lives so much. In fact, in a recent study, out of the top industrial nations of the world, Americans typically work more hours and earn less on average than workers of other industrialized nations.
Now, the idea that everybody in socialistic run business earns the same wage and problems would abound because of it, I don't completely agree with. A company in Wisconsin has actually done this. They run their small business much like socialistic business. The boss, to me, is a cool dude. He gave up making more than his employees who do all the work. Because of this, no one in the business works for minimum wage. They all make pretty healthy salaries because of it. It works for them. The workers are completely satisfied and so is the owner.
I do agree that some people love their jobs and their everyday life in capitalism. I myself will tell you, however, I do not believe man was put on this earth to work his life away. Especially for someone who makes extremely more money for basically just owning the company. Why should the people who make the company run not be given higher salaries when often times the company owner earns more money then they could ever spend in their lifetimes. ( or his children's lifetime, or children's children's lifetime, etc...)
This also brings me to why I don't believe everyone has an equal chance t being successful in America. You really think a person born poor has an equal chance of someone born into an extremely wealthy family? I most certainly do not. The kids in the wealthy family don't have to worry about getting a job for themselves, or how they will pay for college, or how they will afford bare life essentials. Often times, they are born rich, given a job where they make tons of money right from the start, and are rich their entire lives.
The fact that 40% of the countries wealth is controlled by 1% of the population is almost a slap to the face of the people who make this country run: The American working class.
Take myself for example. I would consider the family I was born into middle class. Currently I can not attend the college I want to because we don't have enough money. This may mean i have to work for years before i can afford it. My father is currently struggling to pay off my brother's financial aid. If I was extremely wealthy, it would easily not be an issue. I probably wouldn't even have to go to college if my family was extremely wealthy.
It reminds me of the old Family Hierarchy systems that used to rule in much of ancient Europe, such as Rome. You hear of how twisted and evil some of the rulers were who were rich and pampered all their lives. A king would die and his son would replace him. The son never knew what it was like to be poor. He didn't even know what it was like to be middle-classed. This can make someone extremely smug and selfish.
I realize how romantic socialism is on paper and i like how you pointed that out. I realize that complete socialism is probably not going to happen in America. But, I do believe they way wealth is distributed in America, absolutely needs to be changed. I believe instituting socialistic values would help this problem. I've always said that the only way we could have a truly great president is if they were born into poverty, lived through it, and knew what it was. They would have to work their way up through every class that exists in America. Now that would be a president who could truly relate to everyday people. After all, how can a person who has been extremely rich all their lives relate to anyone who isn't extremely rich? I like this debate! Thanks for putting up with me! haha
CharlottePrynne

Con

CharlottePrynne forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
RadicalViews

Pro

RadicalViews forfeited this round.
CharlottePrynne

Con

CharlottePrynne forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
RadicalViews

Pro

RadicalViews forfeited this round.
CharlottePrynne

Con

CharlottePrynne forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
RadicalViews

Pro

RadicalViews forfeited this round.
CharlottePrynne

Con

CharlottePrynne forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
No comments have been posted on this debate.
No votes have been placed for this debate.