The Instigator
KingEnder101
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
stargate
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Socialism is better than Capitilism

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/27/2015 Category: Economics
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,280 times Debate No: 77024
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (22)
Votes (0)

 

KingEnder101

Pro

I will be arguing that socialism is a better form of economy than Capitilism. Here are my terms:
1st. Round: Acceptance of Terms
2nd Round: Opening arguements
3rd Round: Counter Arguements
4th Round: Conclusive arguements/Rebuttals
My opponent cannot use any Communist/Communistic economy's in their debate since communism isn't Socialism. If you have any objections, state them in the comments, and we can work out fair terms
stargate

Con

I accept your debate, may the best debater win.
Debate Round No. 1
KingEnder101

Pro

Definition: Socialism is a social and economic system characterised by social ownership of the means of production and co-operative management of the economy, as well as a political theory and movement that aims at the establishment of such a system.
Arguement 1: Labor
Socialism grants many employees, workers, etc. many benefits and social programs. In Western Europe, many workers are granted these benefits upon citizenship or payment. Take Sweden, who has some of the most beneficial social programs in the world. But many will point out it has some of the highest taxes. Effectively, this is the governments way of evening things out. The more benefits you get, the higher taxes you pay. Socialism is laid out so it can protect its working citizens and help its non-working citizens get jobs. The government also lays out several laws and social programs to protect workers should their superiors in their particular companies attempt to take advantage of them. In Capitilism, it's all about profit. Many corporation owners don't care about their employees, simply about turning a profit.
Arguement 2: Economic Impact
Definition of Capitalism: an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state. Capitilism is mostly a bunch of big corporations trying to out do each other. America is a capitalistic nation, who has the biggest economy in the world. However, America is being caught up fast by socialistic nations. China, who is a socilistic/communistic mix, has the second largest and fastest growing economy in the world. Other powerful Socialistic nations include Germany, France, UK, Italy, Canada, Australia, Russia, Spain, the Netherlands, Sweden, Belgium, and Norway (I'm not including China because they are Communist, not Socialist) per http://knoema.com... . Unlike common misconception, Socialism is not were the government owns everything and you can't go to the bathroom without the government telling you you can. Socialism is where the government plays an active part in their citizens lives and the economy. There are still corporations, but most of the service jobs are government owned. A Socialistic government protects its citizens and treats them as equals. In Capitilism, most Corporations don't care for their workers. Know some people may complain about welfare and all the people in Socialism are lazy. Then how can Socialistic countries maintain such a high quality economy? Most Socialistic countries have their workers do service jobs. However, because of the high taxes, most Socialistic citizens live in apartments. Which brings me to my next arguement.
Arguement 3: People
This arguement is fairly simple. Most Western Europeon nations, who are Socialistic, have some of the happiest people and highest standards of living in the world. Why is this? Because of the active part the government plays in your life. They pay for your insurance and social security, and in return, you pay higher taxes. Why else do other nations look at America like a joke? Because of their socialistic lifestyle, not do they ownly laugh at Americans, but completely resent our lifestyle.
Arguement 4: Government
In Socialism, the government is more powerful than in Capitilism. In Socialism, the government makes the distribution of wealth its responsibility. They do their best to distribute wealth equally among the population. In Capitilism, the wealth is concentrated within a wealthy elite, most commonly big corporation owners. If I did not make myself clear earlier, I'm using the more mild version of Socialism, not the extreme one.
stargate

Con

Capitalism is an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state.

Well for one when you have capitalism you have a bigger economic growth. Capitalism allows the economy to grow faster then if you are in a socialist nation. In a capitalist nation the country makes a bigger profit. That allows for a better bigger economy and in turn it helps the nation. The nation would have more wealth do to there being more business. Pus when you are in a socialist nation it is the government who controls the economy. Most people in America are making a good amount of money. Now you might not know it but most people around the world make less then 34,000 a year. So in America people are making a good amount of money each year. Also when you are a socialist nation the amount of work that your employes do goes down. For example in France and in Germany they used to work more then Americans yet now that is no longer the case. That means that there is less money going into those nations.

The whole thing that people are upset about with capitalism is the balance of power. Yet look at it from this case you should have to work harder to get a better paying job. Also you should ave to work harder to get a nice home.Also helping the poor is good and all but you know where that money comes from? That is right the government and you know where they get there money that is right taxes. So you are paying for someone else healthcare, and their needs. Now some people may be able to put up with that, but it hurts the people who are not poor. It hurts the people who are trying, they have to make money. But the poor are getting free money from the goverment.

Also in a capitalism nation the way they make products is based off of the demand for said product, this helps reduce a mass amount of said product. In a capitalist nation growth and expansion increases the nations GDP which increases the stranded of living.

*http://www.businessinsider.com...

*http://study.com....
Debate Round No. 2
KingEnder101

Pro

In this round, I will be discussing unemployment rates and salary differences between socialistic and capitalist nations, among other things. To prove The benefits work. Let's use Greece, a Eastern European nation who is Capitilist. In past years, they have been successful, but now they are on a downward slide. Over the course of 5 years, Greece's unemployment rate has risen by 14.8%. Now for the salaries. Let's do the automobile industry, U.S.A vs Germany. German auto workers produced 5.5 million automobiles in 2010. America produced 2.7 million the same year. A German auto worker made $67.14 per hour with benefits. The U.S worker made $33.7 for the same amount of work (BTW, this is measured in U.S dollars). And yet, these German auto companies are very profitable. How is this? In the words of Kevin C. Brown, "the salient difference is that, in Germany, the automakers operate within an environment that precludes a race to the bottom; in the U.S., they operate within an environment that encourages such a race." In German auto companies, there are 2 institutions that ensure higher wages and good working conditions. The first is IG Metall, which is basically a labor union. According to Horst Mund, an IG executive, "though they have the right to strike, they hardly use it, because there is an elaborate system of conflict resolution that regularly is used to come to some sort of compromise that is acceptable to all parties." The second is where the workers have managers to discuss floor conditions and work life in a Work Council. Another thing is Socialistic economies don't need to worry about overproduction since most of the population is employed in government sponsored service jobs. But don't be mistaken, their are several other options for work. And the government doesn't control the economy, just takes an active part in it. Just because some jobs are controlled by the government doesn't mean the government is the economy.
stargate

Con

Well let me start of with saying that capitalism provides us with certain skills. For example we are for the most part still a hard working nation. We try our best to make the most that we can. Some people fail to understand that if you work you get more money. You should be rewarded based on how much work you put in. For example would you really want to make the same amount of money as someone who does nothing in his job, yet you work hard every day? I bet you would want more money then that guy. Capitalism is good for us to learn how to live in life. Someone is not always going to be their for you, and capitalism helps you learn that.

Now lets use spain as a example. They are more socialit then capitalit, they have a unemployment rate of 22.7.
In spain your average person would make only 27.477 k each year. That is less then the average american. Also free heathcare is not as good as private healthcare. One major bad thing with public healthcare is all that money comes from the tax payers. Also it hurts the economy (at least in the usa more) due to it being even more expensive to have workers. Most people hate public healthcare. Also at least here in the USA most employees got heathcare from their company.

Also we still can not treat our workers badly. We have so follow rules, along with other things. Our workers are treated well, now yeah there are sometimes those bad companies. But there are more good then bad. Capitalism helps the nations economy more the it hurts it. Also we do ship a lot of cars, I mean we do you see a Mustang outsilde of North America?
Debate Round No. 3
KingEnder101

Pro

First of all, with Spain, thier problems occurred due to inflation and stagnant economic growth. Now with unemployment, I will use the U.S. with welfare. I will be using the study of Harvard economist Martin Feldstein. Let's say someone had to choose between a job that pays $10 per hour, or welfare benefits that pays $8 per hour. If he were working, he would pay 18% income tax and 7.5% in social security contributions, leaving a salary of $7.5 per hour. In welfare, you would pay 18% in taxes, leaving a welfare benefit of $6.56 per hour. Someone might see a day of leisure worth more than working for the extra 89 cents. In Socialism, the government will always be there to give you the benefits (Unless the government collapses, is conquered, goes bankrupt, etc.). You misread my point on the German auto companies. They pay their workers more, for more, offer benefits, and yet are still more profitable than most American auto companies. Socialism is also a better work environment since you don't have to keep looking for potential jobs since your afraid another corporation is going to drown yours. In Socialism, it's more cooperation than competition, since the government tries to make the distribution of wealth as even as possible. It's not that Socialist workers are getting more for doing less. France and the UK have some of the highest income tax rates in the world. So, Socialism isn't all that bad, it's even better than Capitilism in some ways. I hope those of you who are following this debate will vote for me. Thank you, and good luck to Stargate, you made a good debate, wether or not you win. This was fun.
stargate

Con

Yeah but Spain is still a socialist nation, so it still holds true. Yeah but usually free healthcare is not as good as private. IT also hurts the private heath cares. So some private heath cares start falling which in turn hurts the economy. If you work harder here then you get paid more. If you are not happy with your job then go back to collage and get a new degree. Capitalism allows the country to make more money, that money can go to a number of things, military spending, money for the poor, aid to other nation ex ex. My point is your nation usually more powerful when it has capitalism. Socialism does more bad then it does good. I can would rather pay more private healthcare, but if you want free public heath care fine. But I think capitalism is the way to go.
Debate Round No. 4
22 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by stargate 2 years ago
stargate
Okay, just do not do it next time.
Posted by stargate 2 years ago
stargate
spam
Posted by jamccartney 2 years ago
jamccartney
Why it posted my comment three times is beyond me.
Posted by jamccartney 2 years ago
jamccartney
I am on the con side. I could win the capitalism vs socialism debate with a simple function:

function economics(){
if (capitalism > socialism){
freedom > enslavement;
}
else if (socialism > capitalism){
enslavement > freedom;
}
}
Posted by jamccartney 2 years ago
jamccartney
I am on the con side. I could win the capitalism vs socialism debate with a simple function:

function economics(){
if (capitalism > socialism){
freedom > enslavement;
}
else if (socialism > capitalism){
enslavement > freedom;
}
}
Posted by jamccartney 2 years ago
jamccartney
I am on the con side. I could win the capitalism vs socialism debate with a simple function:

function economics(){
if (capitalism > socialism){
freedom > enslavement;
}
else if (socialism > capitalism){
enslavement > freedom;
}
}
Posted by stargate 2 years ago
stargate
What?
Posted by bballcrook21 2 years ago
bballcrook21
This debate is bad. I am pro capitalism, so I want the Pro in this debate to challenge me. The Con in this debate did a bad job representing the greatness of true Capitalism and free trade. King ender, challenge me to a debate.
Posted by Episteme 2 years ago
Episteme
PRO - You discussed insurance. In the UK, where they have the NHS, no one has health insurance unless you want to go to a private doctor. In the UK, healthcare is free at the point of need and is funded through taxes. I think a question that needs to be asked, is to what extent is your version of socialism separate and different to what the US or the UK (mostly the UK) or some other western countries currently have? In this case it no longer becomes the employers responsibility to provide health care because it is the UK government's responsibility to provide. There are insurance companies in the UK, but it"s for private health care. Since the UK has such a healthcare system, why do you think there are still private health care providers? Seemingly because they think the current, quite socialist, version of healthcare may not be up to par. Also, I"m not sure what your point you were trying to make about the German auto companies and US auto companies. German auto companies making more money would seem to be based in a mostly capitalist system, wouldn"t it, regardless of other benefits they get? Also, the idea that there is a method of conflict resolution could be implemented in either a capitalist or socialist environment. Work councils and unions would not necessarily be and are not guaranteed in either system. Perhaps they are more likely to exist in a socialist state, but they are not guaranteed via either ideology.

https://en.wikipedia.org...
Posted by Episteme 2 years ago
Episteme
Exciting stuff! Good points, Pro and CON - just want to continue picking at the arguments a bit if that's okay! Con - I don't think you answered why economic growth is so important. Why do you think it is? Capitalism provides us certain values and these include the value of making more money and hard work. Why is hard work so important? Why do we value these things? Why should we value these things? I won"t generalize anymore, I apologize if I did. I mean to say that there are a variety of methods of gaining wealth. Since there are such a vast variety of methods, this means that hard work would appear to only be one of the methods and it doesn"t mean it is the most dominating method. (What if no one wanted a computer? Would Bill Gates really end up where he did?) Regarding the poor - not all people are poor simply because they do not know how to manage their own money. If that were the case, then perhaps it would be best to educate people on how to manage their money. Regardless, some very wealthy people end up quite destitute for a variety of reasons. Also, not all poor people can work. Some for health or mental health reasons simply can"t. Why shouldn"t we be equal? There is a very large discrepancy between the rich and the poor. Why is this okay?

https://en.wikipedia.org...
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