The Instigator
Ragnar_Rahl
Con (against)
Winning
40 Points
The Contender
Solarman1969
Pro (for)
Losing
31 Points

Socialization of the womb (e.g. anti-abortion laws).

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/25/2008 Category: Politics
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,023 times Debate No: 2929
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (14)
Votes (20)

 

Ragnar_Rahl

Con

The woman's womb is not your property, nor the property of a fetus, it is solely hers. There is little evidence that a fetus can reason (reason being a necessary element for rights), and even if they could, the fact remains that if the woman does not want them there, they are a thief, a parasite, a being incapable of respecting rights (without reciprocity the concept of rights defeats itself by rewarding those who do not act on it). To enslave a woman to a parasite is to spit in the eye of life.
Solarman1969

Pro

First of all, your view of life is APPALLING and you should be ashamed of yourself and grow up, or face a life of misery, drug addiction, and death

What am I talking about ? this reprehensible comment

they are a thief, a parasite, a being incapable of respecting rights (without reciprocity the concept of rights defeats itself by rewarding those who do not act on it). To enslave a woman to a parasite is to spit in the eye of life.

I see you are only 18, and are thus completely clueless

I will only tell you this

LIFE IS SACRED

ALL LIFE IS SACRED

IN PARTICULAR , HUMAN LIFE

IT IS PRECIOUS

Life Begins at Conception.

Abortion is murder.

Abortion ends a human life

Most abortions are unneccessary, and cause IMMENSE pain and suffering to the woman that volutarily kills her baby.

Witness the poor woman in England who recently hanged herself in grief after she aborted her twins after her criminal evil boyfiend said "I dont want them" to her, leaving her, and BREAKING HER SPIRIT.

HE is responsible for her death AND the death of those children in my view.

Whether the LAW punishes him or NOT , KARMA will be imposed by his action.

YOU seem to think (and anyone who calls an unborn baby a thief a parasite obiously isnt thinking) that becuase you cant SEE the child,

that she is IN WOMAN and is thus NOT a life, but

"a thief, a parasite"

I place 100% of the responsibility for the rape, enslavement , forced impregnantation, and accidental impregnantation of females on planet earth

On MEN - EVIL STUPID MEN.

MEN need to shape up, period.

Your attitude about CHILDREN YOU MAY SOMEDAY MAKE is SCARY, young one.

EVIL, really

Think about this young one

Women COULD eliminate MAN from planet earth, right now, if she wanted.

Every single human being in history has been born of a woman, a mother.

MANs FEAR of woman is this planets MAIN problem.

It is at the heart of the problem in Islam.

But I digress.

YOU, young man, are RESPONSIBLE to treat women CORRECTLY and RESPECTFULLY throughout YOUR ENTIRE LIFE. Your mother, your sisters, your grandmother, your girlfriend, your daughters, your friends- all of them.

you MUST be chivalrous to be a real MAN.

anything less is NOT HONORABLE, MANLY, and VIRTUOUS.

If you have this view, and a measure of control about yourself, and understand the menstrual cycle, you will not accidently impregnate a woman.

and

you will have healthy happy fulfilling marriage. The key to life.

That is how we can end abortion.

Men getting control over themselves, and having respect for women, and not raping and assaulting and controlling them.

Or thinking that unborn children are "thiefs" and "parasites"

SOLARMAN
Debate Round No. 1
Ragnar_Rahl

Con

"
I see you are only 18, and are thus completely clueless
"
I see you use obvious ad antiquatem and ad hominem fallacies, and thus do not understand the notion of logic.

"
First of all, your view of life is APPALLING and you should be ashamed of yourself and grow up, or face a life of misery, drug addiction, and death
"
You haven't demonstrated the misery, death is universal, and I don't use drugs so you are obviously not making much sense.

"LIFE IS SACRED

ALL LIFE IS SACRED

IN PARTICULAR , HUMAN LIFE

IT IS PRECIOUS

Life Begins at Conception.

Abortion is murder.

Abortion ends a human life

Most abortions are unneccessary, and cause IMMENSE pain and suffering to the woman that volutarily kills her baby.
"
Define sacred, define life.
Also, no definition of "life" begins at conception that I know of. Either it begins at birth, or it begins before conception (sperm and eggs are every bit as alive as fetuses and zygotes, which would mean to be consistent you would have to argue for a moral obligation to be constantly pregnant (in order to keep as many sperm and eggs alive as possible), and you would have to oppose both war and the death penalty, neither of which you do. Therefore, triple contradiction so far?

As for the unnecessary bit, that's not from the perspective of those getting them obviously. The pain and suffering? There's less of that in abortion than there is in birth.

"
Witness the poor woman in England who recently hanged herself in grief after she aborted her twins after her criminal evil boyfiend said "I dont want them" to her, leaving her, and BREAKING HER SPIRIT.'

It's a crime to break up with someone and not want children? Can you say "freedom of conscience?"

"HE is responsible for her death AND the death of those children in my view."

Your view ignores the key facts: that she hung herself, and that she and the abortion doctor collaborated in the death of those fetuses (not "children," that's a different developmental stage.) Her boyfriend played no part in it, he just spoke his mind. But of course solarman doesn't believe in free speech :D.

"
Whether the LAW punishes him or NOT , KARMA will be imposed by his action.
"
Imaginary concepts with no evidence like "karma" are not an argument.

"YOU seem to think (and anyone who calls an unborn baby a thief a parasite obiously isnt thinking) that becuase you cant SEE the child,

that she is IN WOMAN and is thus NOT a life, but

"a thief, a parasite""
I never said it wasn't alive (I'm waiting till you define the term.) Thieves and parasites are ipso facto alive. That doesn't mean they should be.

As for "obviously isn't thinking," I don't see how a thinking person with a dictionary can fail to apply the term "thief" to someone who takes what they don't own, or the term "parasite" to an organism that takes its sustenance directly from the inside of the body of another.

"I place 100% of the responsibility for the rape, enslavement , forced impregnantation, and accidental impregnantation of females on planet earth

On MEN - EVIL STUPID MEN."
The first three terms are obviously male responsibility, but accidental impregnation? It takes two to tango.

"

MEN need to shape up, period."
Really? There are no good men and no bad women, anywhere on the planet? That'll be hard to demonstrate...

"

Your attitude about CHILDREN YOU MAY SOMEDAY MAKE is SCARY, young one.

EVIL, really

Think about this young one

Women COULD eliminate MAN from planet earth, right now, if she wanted.

Every single human being in history has been born of a woman, a mother.

MANs FEAR of woman is this planets MAIN problem. "
No, if they wanted to eliminate men, they'd have to wait until all the men alive right now died, or most anyway, and murder the rest. Of course then it would be in short order, EVERYONE, not just men, who were gone.

Men could eliminate everyone in the same manner, though either case it would require universal agreement.

None of which demonstrates that I am evil.

And as far as I know the general case of "woman" is not on the top of the fears list of very many men, so I don't see how it could be even in the top 100 of the planet's man problems, let alone number 1.

"
YOU, young man, are RESPONSIBLE to treat women CORRECTLY and RESPECTFULLY throughout YOUR ENTIRE LIFE. Your mother, your sisters, your grandmother, your girlfriend, your daughters, your friends- all of them.
"
What about the bad ones? :D

I should note that the latter three do not exist in my case, and the former three as far as I can see have no merit.

But in any case I am "responsible" to no one but myself.

"
you MUST be chivalrous to be a real MAN.

anything less is NOT HONORABLE, MANLY, and VIRTUOUS.

"
The code of chivalry is founded in the assumption of vastly inferior women. Real men do not make absurd assumptions that run counter to all the evidence. "Honorable" is as yet undefined," and "virtous"- The first and most important virtue is rationality. Being irrational does not grant you title to virtue but its opposite.

"
If you have this view, and a measure of control about yourself, and understand the menstrual cycle, you will not accidently impregnate a woman."
"http://womenshealth.about.com...;
"Knowledge of the menstrual cycle" is one of the worst birth control methods out there. That's why condoms exist, although those are imperfect.

"
you will have healthy happy fulfilling marriage. The key to life.
"
So unmarried people are locked out of life?
I think not.
a good marriage is a value but by no means a paramount one.

"
That is how we can end abortion.

Men getting control over themselves, and having respect for women, and not raping and assaulting and controlling them."

Even if you could entirely abolish rape, disrespect, etc., it would not end the usefulness of abortion. No birth control method is perfect, and so you'd have to end non-reproductive sex altogether, which would violate everyone's rights.

"Or thinking that unborn children are "thiefs" and "parasites"
"

Read the dictionary definitions of those terms.

You have failed thus far to establish a case for socialization of the womb, because you have not yet demonstrated your premise that biological life is sacred.
Solarman1969

Pro

Solarman1969 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
Ragnar_Rahl

Con

I see my opponent forfeits. He is utterly incapable of justifying socialization of the womb when confronted with human rights and his lack of evidentiary basis (or indeed probably even a cogent definition) for his assertion that "all life is sacred," from the bacteria that infect your lungs to the fetus that trespasses on your womb to the lion that mauls you.
Solarman1969

Pro

lets see here inside your demented mind , polluted by marxists

that would convince you that we humans are a plague on earth- an abomination

not the sacred enlightened beings we are

Your first statements I will analyze

" You haven't demonstrated the misery,"

" death is universal,"

MISERY AND DEATH

That is what you believe in - that is what your life is- how SAD!

How truly sad!

My answer:

Life is GREAT !

life is PRECIOUS !

Live it to the fullest !

Share with others!

Your next statement I will analyze

"I don't use drugs so you are obviously not making much sense."

Maybe you should try vaping some weed and maybe that would help- it is quite a universal medicine in my view.

Your next statement I will analyze

"Define sacred, define life."

Ok

sacred

http://en.wikipedia.org...

Holy.

an experience of something "wholly other," most famously mysterium tremendum et fascinans, a frightening and fascinating mystery

something like that

I can tell you some places are surely scared - Hawaii comes to mind.

Life

http://en.wikipedia.org...

Life is a condition that distinguishes organisms from inorganic objects

To me, life is this blessed temporary inhabitation of our sprit in this body.

Your next statement I will analyze

"to be consistent you would have to argue for a moral obligation to be constantly pregnant"

This is completely nonsensical

I argue the following, which will result ONLY in preganancy among committed people who are planning on getting pregnant.

* human sexuality is a special, sacred, intimiate, mature act that corresponds to the highest form of sharing between human beings

* Sex should be reserved for committed relationships in which there is a genunine love and bond between the people involved

* Sex should only be between two consenting adults, at the exclusion of others

* Men should have complete control over their ejaculation, and both men and women should be completely familiar with the female manstrual cycle

Your next statement I will analyze

"and you would have to oppose both war and the death penalty"

Quite the contrary.

the position that is pro-abortion (killing of the ultimate innocent life)

and against the death penalty (and thus for the sparing and even support for , heinous murderers and terrorists)

is the mentally ill, backwards and unsupportable position that of course liberals take

but you digress...........

Your next statement I will analyze

"As for the unnecessary bit, that's not from the perspective of those getting them obviously. The pain and suffering? There's less of that in abortion than there is in birth."

This is an interesting statement

On the face of it, OF COURSE, childbirth is more painful physically that having a surgeon take a knife and shop the baby up in the womb and then vaccuum out the baby body parts.

But the PAIN AFTER IS ALL AFTER THE ABORTION.

the JOY of having a beautiful baby, and then toddler, and then little boy or girl, and then teenager, and then adult, and then grandkids and great grandkids is AFTER BIRTH, whether the mother gets to enjoy it or another family

Your next statement I will analyze

"It's a crime to break up with someone and not want children? Can you say "freedom of conscience?"

Is having sex with a woman in an irresponsible manner without committment

"freedom of conscience?"

Is not wanting to take responsibility for your actions

"freedom of conscience?"

I dont think so.

I think it is pathetic , immoral, immature, and wrong.

Your next statement I will analyze

"Imaginary concepts with no evidence like "karma" are not an argument."

Karma is imaginary, huh?

Good luck in life, buddy.

Your next statement I will analyze

"I don't see how a thinking person with a dictionary can fail to apply the term "thief" to someone who takes what they don't own, or the term "parasite" to an organism that takes its sustenance directly from the inside of the body of another."

Again, the child , the unborn, you at one point in your mother, were in your view, a thief, a parasite.

like http://en.wikipedia.org...

In the criminal law, theft (also known as stealing) is the illegal taking of another person's property without that person's freely-given consent. As a term, it is used as shorthand for all major crimes against property, encompassing offences such as burglary, embezzlement, larceny, looting, robbery, mugging, trespassing, shoplifting, intrusion, fraud (theft by deception) and sometimes criminal conversion. In some jurisdictions, theft is considered to be synonymous with larceny; in others, theft has replaced larceny.

Someone who carries out an act of or makes a career of theft is known as a "thief".

This is the unborn child, the sacred entity to be in the womb?

parasite http://en.wikipedia.org...

Parasitism is a type of symbiotic relationship between organisms of different species in which one, the parasite, benefits from a prolonged, close association with the other, the host, which is harmed. In general, parasites are much smaller than their hosts, show a high degree of specialization for their mode of life and reproduce more quickly and in greater numbers than their hosts. Classic examples of parasitism include the interactions between vertebrate hosts and such diverse animals as the tapeworms, flukes, Plasmodium species and fleas.

This doesnt sound like a baby to me. If it does to you, I think you need help.

Your next statements I will analyze

"rape, enslavement , forced impregnantation - are obviously male responsibility"

"accidental impregnation? It takes two to tango."

No. the MAN is in control of his sperm- completely, if he is a MAN at all.

I have NEVER used a condom in my life. I had at least seven girlfriends previous to marriage for more than one year, and had sex (hopefully) at least 5 times per week, and NEVER got anyone pregnant once.

I KNEW for a FACT that I never would. I simply would not come inside her any time within 10 days of the peak ovulation day, as calculated by the previous period.

so, yes it takes two to have sex, but the MAN is 100% responsible to refrain from implantation through discipline.

period. end of sentence.

Your next statement I will analyze

"None of which demonstrates that I am evil.:"

I think you have the foundation for an evil attitude.

Evil to me is the worship of death, and the hatred for life. Is is demented.

Your next statement I will analyze

"as far as I know the general case of "woman" is not on the top of the fears list of very many men, so I don't see how it could be even in the top 100 of the planet's man problems, let alone number 1."

I will state it again, Mans fear of women, and his reflexive need to suppress them, is the foundational problem of the world.

In the muslim world, the evil of mistreatment of women is CLEARLY the underlying problem in their evil ways. Life is worthless in such a society and thats why they can recruit people to commit heinous acts.

Most of the worlds religions are PARTRIARCHAL and are designed to suppress women. the Bible based religions come to mind first and foremost.

Your next statement I will analyze

"My mother, my sisters, my grandmother,as far as I can see have no merit"

You are truly a sad human being.

To not even have respect and love for your MOTHER and GRANDMOTHER, without whom you WOULD NOT BE HERE, is actually stunning.

Buddhism teaches one to see ALL BEINGS as ones mother, to create the type of compassion necessary

SOLARMAN.
Debate Round No. 3
14 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Ragnar_Rahl 8 years ago
Ragnar_Rahl
"you are truly a wuss and a disturbed human being
"

You've already demonstrated you have no logic behind the "disturbed human being" part. Can you demonstrate some behind the "wuss?"

"
In all sincerity, good luck

you will surely need it"

Why would you wish luck upon someone you regard as wrong? Isn't that counterproductive?
Posted by Ragnar_Rahl 8 years ago
Ragnar_Rahl
"
In the muslim world, the evil of mistreatment of women is CLEARLY the underlying problem in their evil ways. Life is worthless in such a society and thats why they can recruit people to commit heinous acts."

No, it is clearly a surface problem. The underlying problem is the lack of use of reason. If they used their reason, the problem of mistreating women would disappear. But islam is irrelevant to this discussion in any case.

"
Most of the worlds religions are PARTRIARCHAL and are designed to suppress women. the Bible based religions come to mind first and foremost."

Your point?

"
"My mother, my sisters, my grandmother,as far as I can see have no merit"

You are truly a sad human being."

Argumentum ad hominem.

"To not even have respect and love for your MOTHER and GRANDMOTHER, without whom you WOULD NOT BE HERE, is actually stunning.
"
I have my reasons. Do not judge what you do not know.

"Buddhism teaches one to see ALL BEINGS as ones mother, to create the type of compassion necessary

SOLARMAN."

I DON'T CARE what buddhism teaches. I care about that which is objectively true, and can be demonstrated to be such. Get demonstrating. The debate doesn't have to be over just because you wasted a round on a forfeit.
Posted by Ragnar_Rahl 8 years ago
Ragnar_Rahl
"
No. the MAN is in control of his sperm- completely, if he is a MAN at all."

I think a human biology lesson is in order here: "http://www.madsci.org...;

"
I have NEVER used a condom in my life. I had at least seven girlfriends previous to marriage for more than one year, and had sex (hopefully) at least 5 times per week, and NEVER got anyone pregnant once.
"
Anecdotes are not evidence. Scientific fact, however, dictates that you were simply lucky. Among other things, pre-ejaculatory fluid is sufficient to cause pregnancy.
http://www.birthcontrol4u.com...

Also, it's possible they were on the pill :D

"
I KNEW for a FACT that I never would. I simply would not come inside her any time within 10 days of the peak ovulation day, as calculated by the previous period."

Your facts were off. See a link in a previous post, since you don't read the debate you are in the first time around. THERE IS NO DAY OF THE MONTH IN WHICH PREGNANCY IS IMPOSSIBLE. There are some in which it has lower odds than others, but all happen.

"
so, yes it takes two to have sex, but the MAN is 100% responsible to refrain from implantation through discipline.
'

In other words you are arguing from false premises that even if true are insufficient to establish, that women are completely incapable of being responsible for anything ever? :D

"
"None of which demonstrates that I am evil.:"

I think you have the foundation for an evil attitude.

Evil to me is the worship of death, and the hatred for life. Is is demented.
"
I don't worship death or hate life. I worship nothing and hate those who try to force me to an altar. So you have demonstrated no foundation.

"
I will state it again, Mans fear of women, and his reflexive need to suppress them, is the foundational problem of the world.
"

Argumentum ad nauseum. Stating something again makes it no truer than the first time.
Posted by Ragnar_Rahl 8 years ago
Ragnar_Rahl
""Your next statement I will analyze

"Imaginary concepts with no evidence like "karma" are not an argument."

Karma is imaginary, huh?

Good luck in life, buddy."

This is debate.org. If you use karma as a premise: prove that it exists.

"
"I don't see how a thinking person with a dictionary can fail to apply the term "thief" to someone who takes what they don't own, or the term "parasite" to an organism that takes its sustenance directly from the inside of the body of another."

Again, the child , the unborn, you at one point in your mother, were in your view, a thief, a parasite.
"
I would have been, had my mother not consented to provide me with such things. The key aspect here is consent. Had she chosen to abort me, I would not protest such a decision (assuming it were possible of course :P). But she did not. Thieves are those who take without permission, not take with it.

"
Someone who carries out an act of or makes a career of theft is known as a "thief".

This is the unborn child, the sacred entity to be in the womb"

Your definition of sacred has again not been demonstrated. But yes, if the woman does not wish the fetus to be there, the fetus is a thief.

"
Parasitism is a type of symbiotic relationship between organisms of different species in which one, the parasite, benefits from a prolonged, close association with the other, the host, which is harmed.
This doesnt sound like a baby to me. If it does to you, I think you need help.
"
A fetus is an organism that benefits from a prolonged, close association with the other, which is indeed generally harmed in some manner by the association. It doesn't matter whether you wish to fling ad hominems like "I think you need help," what matters is whether you wish to use logic.
Posted by Ragnar_Rahl 8 years ago
Ragnar_Rahl
"* Men should have complete control over their ejaculation, and both men and women should be completely familiar with the female manstrual cycle"
Ejaculation is an involuntary bodily function, in case you haven't realized this. It is a contradiction to have "complete control" while ejaculating. At best one can have partial control. And menstrual knowledge does not have the results you earlier ascribed to it.

"
the position that is pro-abortion (killing of the ultimate innocent life)

"and against the death penalty (and thus for the sparing and even support for , heinous murderers and terrorists)
"

A trespasser is not an innocent. And you argued earlier that the sacredness of life is unconditional. You have thus contradicted yourse life.

"
But the PAIN AFTER IS ALL AFTER THE ABORTION.

the JOY of having a beautiful baby, and then toddler, and then little boy or girl, and then teenager, and then adult, and then grandkids and great grandkids is AFTER BIRTH, whether the mother gets to enjoy it or another family"

The substraction of joy (and keep in mind that it's not a joy for everyone) is not proof of the creation of pain.

"It's a crime to break up with someone and not want children? Can you say "freedom of conscience?"

Is having sex with a woman in an irresponsible manner without committment
"

You're advocating CRIMINALIZING this. let's just get that clear. right?

"
"freedom of conscience?"

Is not wanting to take responsibility for your actions
"
No in fact, it's a fundamental human right.

""freedom of conscience?"

I dont think so.
"

"
I think it is pathetic , immoral, immature, and wrong."

Then demonstrate it. Don't just list insults and forfeit every other round, use logic.

.
Posted by Ragnar_Rahl 8 years ago
Ragnar_Rahl
"
sacred

http://en.wikipedia.org......

Holy.

an experience of something "wholly other," most famously mysterium tremendum et fascinans, a frightening and fascinating mystery
"

In other words, you are arguing from religion. Guess what? Faith is the opposite of reason. I expected a reasoned debate out of you.

"
Life

http://en.wikipedia.org......

Life is a condition that distinguishes organisms from inorganic objects

To me, life is this blessed temporary inhabitation of our sprit in this body. "
where out of "distinguishes organic from inorganic" to you get "blessed" "temporary inhabitation," "spirits," and other unevidenced assertions."

"
"to be consistent you would have to argue for a moral obligation to be constantly pregnant"

This is completely nonsensical"

You COMPLETELY IGNORED the context of that statement. That is not something people do if they want credibility.

The key to the context was the context of the fact that SPERM AND EGGS ARE EVERY BIT AS LIVING AS ZYGOTES, AND YOU ARGUED THAT LIFE IS SACRED AND MUST BE SAVED.

Logic dictates that it is not nonsense, it is a position derived directly from the interaction of your premises and scientific fact.
"
* human sexuality is a special, sacred, intimiate, mature act that corresponds to the highest form of sharing between human beings
"
In the definition you gave for sacred, you have not established that, because you would have to first establish the existence of the supernatural.

"
* Sex should be reserved for committed relationships in which there is a genunine love and bond between the people involved
"
You cannot have genuine love until you know what you value. For many people, the experience of sex is a method of discovering one's values.

"
* Sex should only be between two consenting adults, at the exclusion of others
"
Why? Not the consent part, the two part :D.
Posted by Ragnar_Rahl 8 years ago
Ragnar_Rahl
"
Life begings at conception. Sperm and eggs are part of the body they originate from, because they are developed by that body and that body alone, through cellular reproduction. However, once a sperm and an egg come together, you have a unique, new set of DNA, and thus a unique, new human life. I'm not a biological or anatomical expert, but I simply don't see how you could argue otherwise. Any logical argument in favor of abortion ought to concede that life begins at conception, and take a different route than calling a fetus a parasite.
2 Days Ago"

The uniqueness of DNA is not life. Sperm and eggs may be "part of a body," but in any meaningful sense so are zygotes, otherwise people with multiple dna sets (they do exist) would have to be multiple people.

And obviously the route of referring to a fetus as a parasite is logically accurate, so your statement about "any logical argument" is not true.

"the ability to reason isn't necessarily required to have rights. we cant go around abusing the mentally handicapped can we?
"
Which mental handicap permanently removes the faculty of reason?

"
lets see here inside your demented mind , polluted by marxists
"

No, in fact I'm essentially the opposite of a marxist. :D

"
that would convince you that we humans are a plague on earth- an abomination
"
When did I ever say that? You're the one who makes half of em sound like that :D

"MISERY AND DEATH

That is what you believe in - that is what your life is- how SAD!

How truly sad!
"

Now you're spouting nonsense. Unjustified, unreasoned, nonsense.

"
Life is GREAT !

life is PRECIOUS !

Live it to the fullest !

Share with others!
"
I'm cool with living life to the fullest- as long as you don't violate the rights of others. And mandating "sharing with others," i.e. regarding charity as mandatory, makes charity a polite word for slavery.
Posted by Kleptin 8 years ago
Kleptin
If you see an ant, it's nothing big. You just let it walk by. Maybe you smoosh it with your finger. But when there's a huge gigantic mass of them all running together, it's absolutely disgusting.

Same with logical fallacies. I don't believe I've ever seen so many of them together at the same time. I can't even list them all. I think we could teach a class on rhetoric with Solarman's round one argument alone.
Posted by figoitalia 8 years ago
figoitalia
the ability to reason isn't necessarily required to have rights. we cant go around abusing the mentally handicapped can we?
Posted by Hypnodoc 8 years ago
Hypnodoc
I find it truly sad that a topic that could be debated so well, for either side was turned into a simple and total smear campaign.
A debate being people coming together to logically and skilfully play their points of view against each other in an attempt to not only convey ones point but to learn from the experience.
Petty name calling and a lack of creativity abound in this example of a so-called debate.
20 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by Grape 6 years ago
Grape
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Vote Placed by TeaandScarves 7 years ago
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Vote Placed by InquireTruth 8 years ago
InquireTruth
Ragnar_RahlSolarman1969Tied
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Vote Placed by Ineffablesquirrel 8 years ago
Ineffablesquirrel
Ragnar_RahlSolarman1969Tied
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Vote Placed by wheelhouse3 8 years ago
wheelhouse3
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Vote Placed by Xera 8 years ago
Xera
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Vote Placed by lorca 8 years ago
lorca
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Vote Placed by psynthesizer 8 years ago
psynthesizer
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Vote Placed by Ragnar_Rahl 8 years ago
Ragnar_Rahl
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Vote Placed by blond_guy 8 years ago
blond_guy
Ragnar_RahlSolarman1969Tied
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