The Instigator
Brrboy07
Pro (for)
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The Contender
Isranaz12
Con (against)
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Society's Constant

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/14/2014 Category: Society
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 678 times Debate No: 43945
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (4)
Votes (0)

 

Brrboy07

Pro

Societies not only within the United States but all over the world as well, follow a pattern directly affected by education, communication, and economics. This pattern has been repeated hundreds, if not thousands of times throughout history and will continue for the foreseeable future. To explain this I will look at the three levels of citizens based upon finances in the United States; upper class, middle class, and lower class. The upper class is the smallest, having ample amounts of free time after vigorous amounts work throughout their lifetimes. They are the CEOs of corporations. Those that are parents will push their children to work hard in school to become as they are. The middle class continues to work, but only the normal 40-hours a week. They won't push their kids as hard as the upper class, but they will still push them towards education so they don't become poor. These kids will become the Supervisors within the corporations. The lower class is the largest class, which focuses mainly on work. They will push their kids towards earning money for the family and less on a quality education. This in turn will create more workers, which is needed in order for a society to grow. Without a sufficient amount of workers, there will be no one to fill the jobs needed in order to make a business grow and not enough people who can afford to purchase its product. Currently in the United States, there are business that have been switching from human workers to robotic workers. It makes more money for the rich, but less for the poor. The supervisors will still be needed to check quality of the products, so they won't be affected as much. The job market is shrinking for the lower class, because they don't have the education for a job and they don't have the money for the education. They are then forced to resort to crime in order to put food on the table. If they didn't, they would die. The other classes may or may not see this, or may or may not care about the outcome. But, whatever help or lack help there is to the lower class will either lead to its end or the prolonging of its end. When the lower class is finally "gone", the new standards for the poor will shift to the middle class. Then when they are gone, it will shift to the upper class and so on. This pattern has happened and will continue. My question is, "Is this a problem?"
Isranaz12

Con

There is indeed a problem about the way that there are more and more people in the lower class being replaced with various machines and robots and the decline in rates of education. However, money is not the issue here. It was stated that a lack of money is a key reason that the lower class cannot get education. This can be proven faulty because public school education and scholarships are available for everyone. All the family members chipping in may be required for some to make ends meet, but education and jobs can be balanced. The real problem lies not in the financial aspect of life, but in the domestic aspect. Weak family structure in the United States today is a key reason why many children, although given the opportunity to be educated, do not receive the mental nourishment they need. Fathers abandon their families because they don't want to deal with the responsibility, teenage girls have babies either because they were raped or due to lack of protection while being involved sexually, children grow up seeing the adults around them fighting, etc. All these disturbances in the home can cause children to lose interest in making a future for themselves. They then turn to the streets for comfort and there is a danger of becoming involved in drugs, gangs, illegal acts, etc to make money. They can be surrounded by a negative environment because of the lack of nurturing they received from those in charge of raising them. They then become adults and, having not received a proper education, cannot get jobs so they continue their lives as thieves or druggies or prostitutes and this influences the next generation. The process starts all over again.
Debate Round No. 1
Brrboy07

Pro

Education and jobs can be balanced, but they aren't. I agree that family structure is an issue in the United States for children, but it is not only an issue with the lower class. Every social class has those problems - teenagers rebelling, parents divorcing, and lack of connection between family members. The reason that it is so much more prominent in the lower class is that unlike the middle class and upper class, they have a lack of resources. They can't afford to take time for themselves to just have fun like the other classes. The parents need money to provide for their children and their children's children. And they don't have a sufficient income to house all of these people comfortably.

So, what do they do? They can force their children to get jobs at young ages to help the family pay bills. They can abandon their family because the stress is too great. They can look for alternatives to make money, like drugs and robbery, because they don't have the proper education for high paying jobs. This is a lot of pressure for two parents, so whatever choices one makes will definitely lead to conflicts with the other. When their children see this fighting, they can either vow to make their family better, which could drive them to learn more for a high paying job or push them out of school to earn money fast. The kids' other option would be to abandon the family and try to make life on their own, which will just start the cycle over again. Disconnection between family members needs to be fixed.

But, who's going to do it? The lower class doesn't have the money or free time to be able to go to their child's baseball game or to help with their kid's science project. The middle class has children of its own that they are pushing towards education so that they don't end up like the lower class. The upper class has the money and the free time to be able to help those in need, which some do; but how much help can they give them? If they just give the lower class money, how long will that last until they need more? They also can't tell the parents how to raise their kids, because no parents likes being told that they are a bad parent. They can't take the kids away and raise them themselves, because that's an exorbitant amount of children to take care of.

So, what can be done? The options are unethical and uneconomical. This cycle will repeat itself. A public school education only gets kids so far in life, and most don't qualify for sufficient scholarships. The ones that do may not have the proper education to be able to write a unique essay to be accepted into an accredited college. But, let's say they do. How many young adults will that be? It won't be every child from the lower class, because the other social classes that have a more advanced education will outcompete them for the majority of the scholarships. Plus, not every lower class child will have that drive to be more. Those that do will graduate college, get a high paying job, and live out their days as middle class citizens. But, it won't be very many.

The lower class will become more unstable as the years go on until a final conclusion, of which there is none. Because, the new standard of who's poor will change. Anyone who sees this as a problem can help if they want. That's what's needed in this world. People just with the willing to help others. Not a few people though, it would take a planet. We can't just stand by watching our fellow man slowly deteriorate, lose his legacy. We need to remember each other and what we have done. The good and the bad. It takes an open mind and perspective to understand the problems of others, and to realize that their problems affects our lives. If not that, than at least just help because helping those in need is one of the greatest feelings in the world. Almost as great as sex. How many people will do that though? Most people will see the poor as just the lower class, people that led themselves to where they are today. Even though, they tried their hardest to climb out of their holes. But, how much can they do? The hole just keeps getting bigger.
Isranaz12

Con

A legitimate way to balance education and jobs is by dedication. Every parent wants their children to be the best at all, but the lower class parents bow out, in behalf of the wages they hold. Forcing their children to work, will only temporarily deflate their necessities. The lower class needs to make make commitments where parents try fetching two jobs instead of one. Where fathers don't sit in bars and outrun their limits. Where families endeavor at salvaging their money instead of misusing it. One dominant controversy the lower class has to face is fitting in. The lower class too, buys the newest pairs of Jordan sneakers instead of buying formal shoes that accommodate a suitable price. It is recognizable that both the middle and upper class buy extravagant and valuable items, however, they are affluent enough to do so. If the lower class wants to undo the constancy in society, they have to operate as being prudent and diligent parents.

A public school education is enough for a kid to be successful in life. Virtually, all the kids in the upper and middle class attend public school. Money doesn't grant intelligence. There may be some kids in the upper class that perhaps, might fail their classes. Although, there are students in the lower class, that are inclined and well- dedicated to school work. These kids are prone to get into an accredited college. Not all the kids in the upper and middle classes acquire advanced education, which leaves a reasonable amount of competition for the lower class. Education is the only way the lower class can dig themselves out of that hole. This is where the children need to generate commitments. Working hard in school for 10 years could change the rest of the generations lives.

I most certainly agree with you that their is a maximum of help you can contribute to others. Although, there are other knots that need to be untied. First, we need to contemplate what the hole you referred to, is. We need to discern why the hole was made in the first place and what is causing it to grow larger and deeper, to make it seem absurd to extinguish. There are logic causes to every effect. When we decode the motive for this hole, we'll be able to refill this hole and get the lower class back onto its original ground. Which will only penetrate the constancy in our society.
Debate Round No. 2
Brrboy07

Pro

Dedication is absolutely a viable solution for the lower class's problems. But, you say that, "every parent wants their children to be the best at all," which for the most part I agree with. Based off of that standard alone, you're saying that the lower class should already be "fetching two jobs instead of one" and "salvaging their money instead of misusing it." To be specific, you're saying that they aren't pushing themselves to create better lives for their children, yet their dedication to do it is present. If you are saying that they are pushing themselves, then when "fathers...sit in bars and outrun their limits" wouldn't occur anymore. They would be putting all of their time and effort into providing for their children instead of booze to wash away their problems. But if that was true, then you wouldn't say that it was a problem.

A problem that I see is that you say that "the middle and upper class buy extravagant and valuable items, however, they are affluent enough to do so." You make it sound like it is completely acceptable for those who have the money to buy beautiful decorations, expensive clothing, fast cars, and fancy jewelry to buy them; even though, there are those in this world whom would be lucky enough just to see such extravagances. If they have the money for these items that only increase the pride in themselves, then they also have the money to fund a way to support or research a way to support those whom can't afford these. The people and families that have money show off their money on useless items that benefit no one. The people and families that don't have money don't show it off to the world. They try to hide the fact they can't regularly provide their kids with three meals a day. So how do they do that? Parents purchase "Jordan sneakers" and pointless items of their own so their children can fit in at school. So they aren't seen as outcasts. Nothing feels worse than being alone, especially when it's not your fault.

Most parents have the drive to push their kids to learn more, because they don't want their children to be alone or poor. Some parents smother their kids with too much love to protect them from life's problems, which leads to overly dependent children that can't make it on their own in the real world. Some parents show no love to their kids hoping that the kids grow into adults who can make the hard decisions and take the real world seriously; but that leads to children feeling detached which can lead to violence, running away, and suicide - maybe just trying to get attention. Some parents do everything just right and their kids become the astronauts and doctors that they aspired to be at a young age. The parents have one of the strongest, if not the strongest, influences on the youth of this nation. Whatever they do for whatever reason, will affect their children in some ways.

Parents don't know the magic method for raising a child, so these teenagers develop into unique human beings. But their knowledge of the real world is all based upon not only the parents' knowledge but what their parents allowed them to learn as well. And since parents don't know the perfect way to boost their children's performance, it would be acceptable if they were to take the advice from outsiders on their parenting. Communication is necessary for thorough learning. If the parents don't have an open mind about their lives and the lives of others, then where would their steadfast dedication to improve their kids' lives come from? How would they even know if they were in a rut, if they didn't have the perspective to see that other families weren't?

Of course the lower class wants the best for their children, so should all of the other social classes. But if they have the want like everyone else, then why can't they change? Because the other classes have the money for a proper education that leads to high paying jobs. The lower class is struggling with debts and alienation, because from everyone else's perspective, they dug their own hole. They committed the crimes that were supposed to earn more for their family. But from everyone else's point of view, they're just guilty. They don't deserve help because it's their fault that they are in the situation they are in. People don't realize that there is a trend in this country that has consumed millions if not billions of lives over the years. If people don't help the lower class now, then why should anyone help those people? It will be because of them and their ancestors that the definition of who's poor changed to the middle class.

I want the best for everyone, and the best for everyone would be to prolong Society's Constant and to find a solution - maybe even prevent it. To do that, we will need unity. People from all over will have to put in their time. They will have to simply, just help others. A dedication towards help from all will benefit the world far more than the help from two.
Isranaz12

Con

I guess "their problems" you're referring to is not being capable of providing their kids' necessities and desires. But, boozing these problems away is only temporarily going to keep them absent. This is a problem because of the lack of time and effort they provide for their children. If they spent more time worrying about their children and less about themselves, maybe we would see a change. Of course, situating around what is happening and what is to happen, will only escalate their problems a lot more. When i said "fetching two jobs instead of one" and "salvaging their money instead of misusing it", i said they must endeavor themselves at doing so. Some parents may already be struggling and trying their best, but right now, we're talking about the whole lower class. Everyone must attempt to penetrate this constancy.

Certainly, it is acceptable for the middle and upper class to buy valuable and lavish items. Though it is not acceptable for the middle and upper class to judge the lower class. You stated that,"I want the best for everyone, and the best for everyone would be to prolong Society's Constant and to find a solution - maybe even prevent it. To do that, we will need unity." Where do we find unity when people are too arrogant to help others believing they shouldn't be near lower classes. They're to cocky to want to help others. I'm not saying everyone is arrogant and cocky, but according to what I have seen, you can say about 60% of the middle and upper class are. when you look between the upper classes and the lower classes, you'll be more likely to find bias lingering in the air. If the upper and middle classes weren't so discriminating, the lower class wouldn't feel like an outcast.

You're absolutely right the parents are the strongest influence on the youngsters. Therefore, if parents can't quite catch the method of raising a child, the children are wrecked. There is nothing wrong with taking advice from other parents who quite seem to know how to raise a kid. Lower class parents who loath taking advice from other parents, are making a mistake. It's there fault if they're kids wreck up later, because, they didn't know how to raise them.

The lower class didn't dig themselves into the hole. Apparently, it isn't anyone's fault. But, everyone can work together to pull them back out. Unity is the precise way to prolong the Society's Constant, but the other classes must lose their arrogance. They must feel sympathy for the lower class, instead of feeling hatred. That way, everyone will stay united and the society's constancy will finally be penetrated.
Debate Round No. 3
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by Isranaz12 3 years ago
Isranaz12
It's funny how nobody voted.
Posted by Brrboy07 3 years ago
Brrboy07
"Society's Constant" is just a title I made up. The issue is whether or not losing the lower class regularly is a problem. It is a major issue in political campaigns to make new jobs for the working class man; but if that man, if not him then his children, is just going to be replaced by a new and cheaper way to make a product, then why should the job be created for him in the first place? If society is in the cycle I describe, then is the problem having citizens without jobs, or replacing them with a cheaper worker?
Posted by PlayerQQ 3 years ago
PlayerQQ
Corrections:

2) What is the issue you think is problematic: the eventual destruction of the lower economic /class/ in society?
Posted by PlayerQQ 3 years ago
PlayerQQ
Two questions of clarification:

1) What is 'Society's Constant'?

2) What is the issue you think is problematic: is it the eventual destruction of the lowest eceonomic in our society?
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