The Instigator
joshandr30
Con (against)
Losing
8 Points
The Contender
Stereoprism
Pro (for)
Winning
14 Points

Sola Scriptura/Bible Alone?

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 4 votes the winner is...
Stereoprism
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/9/2008 Category: Religion
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,267 times Debate No: 5335
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (3)
Votes (4)

 

joshandr30

Con

Where in Scriptures does is say Scriptures are the only rule of Faith?
Scriptures , Protestant 66 books of the Holy Bible. You choose version.
Show Scriptural text supporting Sola Scriptura or Bible Only/Alone

Sola Scriptura- Doctrine of most Protestant denominations.
Doctrine states 66 Books of the Protestant Holy Bible are the only source for the precepts of the Christian Faith.

NOT Debating whether 66 books of Protestant books of the Holy Bible are the ONLY written Word of God in the universe. No straw men please.

66 book Protestant Holy Bible is reliable source for information for this debate.
Stereoprism

Pro

From 2 Timothy Chapter 3:

[14] But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
[15] And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
[17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

The implication here is that all scripture is profitable, therefore only scripture should be used when determining what God intends to say to us. I have a little bit of a problem with your question, however, as you only mention Faith being the defining factor, when "works" is another element in play when you actually try to live a christian life. (James 2:18-20)
Debate Round No. 1
joshandr30

Con

Where in Scriptures does is say Scriptures are the only rule of Faith?
Scriptures , Protestant 66 books of the Holy Bible. You choose version.
Show Scriptural text supporting Sola Scriptura or Bible Only/Alone

Sola Scriptura- Doctrine of most Protestant denominations.
Doctrine states 66 Books of the Protestant Holy Bible are the only source for the precepts of the Christian Faith.

When I say Faith I mean what is to be believed. The Faith of a Catholic is different from say a Baptist Faith. The Faith is basically the doctrine,precepts or beliefs of the Church.

I am afraid your argument for this debate is invalid. The debate is on Holy Scriptures as being the ONLY source when doctrine is concern. I agree Scriptures as "PROFITABLE" but the topic of this debate is whether or not Scriptures clearly say that Scriptures are the ONLY valid source of truth for our "Faith".
Stereoprism

Pro

Take a look at verse 15 of what I quoted in my above argument:
2 Tim 3
[15] And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
This verse demonstrates that the holy scriptures are able to "make thee wise unto salvation", implying that the holy scriptures are all that's needed for salvation through Christ.

Also, from 2 Peter 3:15-16, "And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction."
The last part of that verse is very telling, placing the "unlearned and unstable" in a state of trying to understand "other scriptures", to "their own destruction".
Debate Round No. 2
joshandr30

Con

Very good point, but this is still not anything close to Sola Scriptura. Because the Scriptures St. Paul was telling St. Timothy about were the Old Testament writings. Yes by this time there were writings considered Scripture written by the Apostles but not when St. Timothy was a child. And one can become wise unto salvation THROUGH Faith in Jesus, because the Old Testament is FULL of Jesus foretold. And where better to gain Faith in Jesus but through the scriptures (OT) that were fulfilled through Jesus ministry while here. Here is an example from Scriptures about what I am saying.
Luke 24
27And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

And think of this. Is Scripture ALL we need? Did YOU pay attention to verse 14?

14But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;

Now read the whole thing in context. Tradition and Scripture
Stereoprism

Pro

Stereoprism forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
joshandr30

Con

I am not sure what to do now. Is this some debate tactic to get the last word in or something. I will give some Scriptures that say clearly Scriptures AND Tradition.
2Thess. 2:15Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.By WORD or epistle. And the Book of Thessalonians is what? An epistle, please do not forget this simple Truth.
2Thess. 3:6Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.
Not after what??? I thought for sure St. Paul would have said "Not after the epistle from us" but then again Sola Scriptura is a false Doctrine so I guess it makes sense.If Scripture does not say we can ONLY believe Scripture the Sola Scriptura falls.Because by Protestant standards, if it aint in the Bible then it aint true. Oh yeah, where is the inspires list of Books?
Stereoprism

Pro

Just didn't get back in time. I'd like to quote a scripture that is often used against the Word of God:
John 20:30-31 - "Many other signs also Jesus worked in the sight of his disciples, which are not written in this book, but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in his name."
This scripture is used to try to prove that theology and faith are found outside the holy scriptures, which is a fallacy. It's a fallacy to try to disprove the bible using the bible. It is a Babylonian sort of theology, to use confusion to one's own ends. The only confusion that comes in Christianity is when man assigns a creed or doctrine that complicates God's Word.
1 Corinthians 14:37 says, "If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord."
Tradition is one thing, but anything other that God's Word is an invention of man.
Debate Round No. 4
joshandr30

Con

First thing I do not use verses against the Word of God. I use verses for Truth. SO far you have stated your opinion on Sola Scriptura, but you have not showed where in Scripture it clearly says Scripture is ALL we need to know the Truth of Jesus Christ. You also failed to recognize any of the verses I showed as proof that Sola Scriptura is a false doctrine. So in a nut shell all you have done is give your opinion. Please explain how my earlier posts are wrong besides just your opinion. If you can not do this then you have proved nothing except what you believe to be true. This is the last round, make it count. Yes there were may things Jesus did and said that ARE not recorded in the Word of God, so then were they for not? Did ANYTHING Jesus did or said while He was here worthless? St. John wrote some things so that we can believe, the rest is taught by the Church. Please address St. Paul's command to follow Tradition taught to us either by word or letter.
Stereoprism

Pro

Mark 7:7 "Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men."
Isaiah 8:20 "To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them."
1 Corinthians 4:6 "And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another."
Word and epistle are the same thing, since they are both in the holy scriptures. Doctrines and creeds are man-made and not inspired by God. Traditions define us as people, but have little effect on our salvation, which is only through Christ. One cannot prove "Sola Scriptura" with just one verse. I'll close with a quote.
"The doctrines of the Catholic Church are entirely independent of Holy Scripture." Familiar Explanation of Catholic Doctrine, by Rev. M. Muller, p.151
I cannot accept teachings that deny Script
Debate Round No. 5
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by Stereoprism 8 years ago
Stereoprism
I forgot to mention, I am using KJV in my scripture quotation.
Posted by joshandr30 8 years ago
joshandr30
When the word Faith is used I do not reference Faith and Works Doctrine. Faith is the belief about WHAT to believe. Such as Purgatory or the various doctrines of Mary Mother of Jesus. To believe the various teachings about these Doctrines one would use Faith, and the debate is whether Scriptures alone are the ruling authority in determining what we as Christians believe.
Posted by joshandr30 8 years ago
joshandr30
I meant to say KJV or NIV version. Once version choosen we will quote ONLY from this version. I will the contender the choose of version.
4 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Vote Placed by Csavage472 8 years ago
Csavage472
joshandr30StereoprismTied
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Vote Placed by solo 8 years ago
solo
joshandr30StereoprismTied
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Vote Placed by Sweatingjojo 8 years ago
Sweatingjojo
joshandr30StereoprismTied
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Vote Placed by Stereoprism 8 years ago
Stereoprism
joshandr30StereoprismTied
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