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ProfessorJake
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The Contender
lefillegal1
Con (against)
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Some of the Bible is not true

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/31/2014 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 377 times Debate No: 45011
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ProfessorJake

Pro

Rules

1. No plagiarism; Don't copy someone else's work and claim it as your own.

2. You may only troll when things get completely out of hand.

Presentations

1. According to the Bible, if you pray in the Lord's name, your prayer shall come true. However, some pray, every day, and yet, their prayer doesn't come true. There were no restrictions. If there were so, it should have been listed.

2. If God is so merciful, why do even Christians suffer to death? If he's merciful, he wouldn't let someone suffer to death. According to the Bible, pain strengthens and God establishes you. However, if you suffer to death, you won't be able to use that, as it's useful. And, God wants us with him? In that case, why didn't he just created us in Heaven.

Before this - No cowards, please, who ignores the other party's (Who disagrees) view and still claim what they deem true, and can't place THEIR perspectives in public scrutiny.
lefillegal1

Con

"1. According to the Bible, if you pray in the Lord's name, your prayer shall come true. However, some pray, every day, and yet, their prayer doesn't come true. There were no restrictions. If there were so, it should have been listed."

According to the Bible there ARE restrictions and these statements arent to just" anyone", instead they are to "anyone who believes in Christ." The "some", who pray everyday and yet their prayer never comes true, MUST fall into one of two catergories of "why." their prayers dont come true.

Category 1 : Non"believers of Christ"

The "Who"

We must first determine "who" the Bible is making these statements to.

John 15:7 "If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you."

John 15:16 "Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and { that } your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you."

Matthew 18:1 "At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?"

Matthew 18:19 "Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven."

Matthew 21:20 "And when the disciples saw { it, } they marveled, saying, How soon is the fig tree withered away!"

Matthew 21:21 "Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this { which } { is } { done } to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done."

Matthew 21:22 "And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive." (KJV)

We can now determine the "who" to be 1) those "who abide in Jesus and his words in them" 2) those chosen by Jesus, and 3) the "disciples". For the sake of arguement, we can label all three as "believers of Christ". We have now established the "who", that these verses were directed to. So it can now be stated that these verses were directed to the "believers of Crist"

Category one is non "believers of Christ".

Category 2 "Wrong reasons"

The "why"

We must now determine "why" some prayers dont come true. James 4:3 addressess the reason "why".

James 4:3 "Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume { it } upon your lusts." (KJV)

So it can be said, some prayers are not answered because we ask for the wrong reasons. This is the second catergory for unanswered prayers. Catagory two is wrong reasons. Now the "burden of proof" is for you to prove that, ANY unansewred prayer, DOES NOT Fit into category one (non 'believers of Christ") or catergory two (wrong reasons). These clearly are the "restrictions" you have overlooked.

suf·fer\G2;sə-fər\

transitive verb

1 a : to submit to or be forced to endure <suffer martyrdom>b : to feel keenly : labor under<suffer thirst>

2 : undergo, experience

3 : to put up with especially as inevitable or unavoidable

4 : to allow especially by reason of indifference <the eagle suffers little birds to sing — Shakespeare>

intransitive verb

1 : to endure death, pain, or distress

2 : to sustain loss or damage

3 : to be subject to disability or handicap

mer·cy\G2;mər-sē\

noun

1 a : compassion or forbearance shown especially to an offender or to one subject to one's power; also :lenient or compassionate treatment <begged for mercy> b : imprisonment rather than death imposed as penalty for first-degree murder

2 a : a blessing that is an act of divine favor or compassion b : a fortunate circumstance <it was a mercy they found her before she froze>

3 : compassionate treatment of those in distress <works of mercy among the poor>

Other forms: plural mercies

adjective at the mercy of : wholly in the power of : with no way to protect oneself against.

"If God is so merciful, why do even Christians suffer to death?"

Firstly " you" refer to "suffer" as a bad thing, (somehing not welcomed), while Christians do not. Christians welcome suffering and count it honourable.

Romans 8:17 "And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint -heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with { him, } that we may be also glorified together." Philippians 1:29 "For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;"

II Timothy 2:12 "If we suffer, we shall also reign with { him }: if we deny { him, } he also will deny us:"

II Timothy 3:12 "Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution."

Hebrews 2:9 "But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honor; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man."

Hebrews 11:25 "Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;" James 5:10 "Take, my brethren, the prophets, who have spoken in the name of the Lord, for an example of suffering affliction, and of patience."

I Peter 2:19 "For this { is } thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully."

I Peter 2:20 "For what glory { is } { it, } if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer { for } { it, } ye take it patiently, this { is } acceptable with God."

I Peter 2:21 "For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:"

I Peter 3:17 "For { it } { is } better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing."

I Peter 4:16 "Yet if { any } { man } { suffer } as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf."

II Corinthians 1:5 "For as the sufferings of Christ abound in us, so our consolation also aboundeth by Christ."

II Corinthians 1:6 "And whether we be afflicted, { it } { is } for your consolation and salvation, which is effectual in the enduring of the same sufferings which we also suffer: or whether we be comforted, { it } { is } for your consolation and salvation."

II Corinthians 1:7 "And our hope of you { is } steadfast, knowing, that as ye are partakers of the sufferings, so { shall } { ye } { be } also of the consolation."

Revelation 2:10 "Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast { some } of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days; be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life." (KJV)

As pointed out Christians welcome suffering. They see it for what it is really worth. And its worth far more than the "pain" which you depict it to be. Christians depict suffering the way the Bible describes it.

Romans 8:18 "For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time { are } not worthy { to } be { compared } with the glory which shall be revealed in us." (KJV)

"According to the Bible, pain strengthens and God establishes you. However, if you suffer to death, you won't be able to use that, as it's useful."

Thats YOUR opinion. Are you referring to Romans 5:3-5?

Romans 5:3 "And not only { so, } but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;"

Romans 5:4 "And patience, experience; and experience, hope:"

Romans 5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us." (KJV)

Hope does indeed strenghten the individual but it can also strenghthen others around you. Your opinion may be "hope is hopeless", but thats not the Bible's opinion.

So far, Gods "mercy" hasnt even come into question yet you call him unmerciful? Why? You have yet to give an example of this. In fact its impossible to. Why? Because the very idea of " mercy" depends on the one whose giving it. "Mercy" is given at the owners discretion. If God has ,at his discretion, the choice to fully punish or not then he is automatically "merciful" The only way he could not be merciful is if he exacted the same punishment all the time.

"And, God wants us with him? In that case, why didn't he just created us in Heaven."

In which way is the Bible not truthful about this? This question has no bearing on your argument, when you can show that it does, then shall I answer it.
Debate Round No. 1
ProfessorJake

Pro

ProfessorJake forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
ProfessorJake

Pro

ProfessorJake forfeited this round.
lefillegal1

Con

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Debate Round No. 3
ProfessorJake

Pro

ProfessorJake forfeited this round.
lefillegal1

Con

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Debate Round No. 4
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