The Instigator
Shrek_sDrecKid
Pro (for)
Winning
7 Points
The Contender
Cmeier
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Sonic & Sega All-Stars Racing (+ Transformed) Is Better Than Mario Kart Franchise

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
Shrek_sDrecKid
Voting Style: Open with Elo Restrictions Point System: Select Winner
Started: 11/3/2014 Category: Games
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 685 times Debate No: 64517
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (10)
Votes (1)

 

Shrek_sDrecKid

Pro

Sonic & Sega All-Stars Racing (and Transformed) is far superior to the Mario Kart franchise in every possible way. Better graphics, better music, better controls, better game modes, better vehicles, better items, better track design, better AI, better challenge, better mechanics...you get the idea. With the exception of Mario Kart: Double Dash, Mario Kart DS, and Mario Kart 8, all other Mario Kart games are inferior to the two Sega clones that Sumo Digital has to offer. The first round is for acceptance, position, stance, thesis, and introduction; the other rounds will be for debating and rebuttals only.
Cmeier

Con

I accept your challenge. I will be for Mario kart. My goal is to prove Mario kart is the superior game to Sonic & Sega All-Stars Racing.
Debate Round No. 1
Shrek_sDrecKid

Pro

Sonic & Sega All-Stars Racing (and Transformed) is far superior to that of the Mario Kart franchise in every aspect, whether it's the graphics, music, controls, game modes, items, track design, vehicles, characters, AI, difficulty, and mechanics. Though it may have sold little (approximately 2 million; both games combined) compared to that of Mario Kart (it was sold on PS3, Xbox 360, PC, Mac, Wii, Wii U, DS, 3DS, PS Vita, iPhone, and Android while Mario Kart was only sold on one console per generation excluding the NES), and may not be original or creative as many of its ideas are ripped off of Mario Kart, it still is the better kart racing franchise than Mario Kart. Mario Kart is inferior to Sonic & Sega All-Stars Racing (and Transformed) except for its sales and originality.

Almost every Mario Kart game has terrible graphics not only when compared to Sega's kart racing rip-off, but also compared to other games of its generation. The only exception to this is Mario Kart: Double Dash, Mario Kart 7, and Mario Kart 8; all other games look terrible. Super Mario Kart, while the first true Mario Kart game, does not allow itself to get away with bad graphics just because it was the original one that started it all. Though the SNES was limited, it was still able to produce 32-bit graphics and compete with more powerful consoles such as the Sega Saturn and the Atari Jaguar. Games like Star Fox, Super Metroid, Mega Man X, Mortal Kombat, and Donkey Kong Country were all capable of producing gorgeous looking graphics, so Super Mario Kart certainly does not get special treatment. Same with Mario Kart 64 and Mario Kart: Super Circuit; Super Circuit is essentially Super Mario Kart on a handheld and 64 has extremely low resolution textures and inaccurate character models.

Sega is known for composing excellent music, no matter how bad the game is (Sonic '06 comes to mind), while Nintendo makes average to mediocre music except for their top three franchises (Mario, Zelda, Metroid). Most Mario Kart games have music that is easily forgettable, extremely generic, lacking in diversity, and repetitive (many new songs are just remixes and/or arrangements). Sonic Racing on the other hand have diverse music, memorable sound-tracks, and high-quality music that represents each Sega franchise accurately and makes you want to listen to them all day. Of course, the music is all ripped out from older games, but that doesn't even matter if it was done extremely well.

Though Mario Kart never had bad controls to begin with, Sonic Racing simply improves upon the controls for more precise and accurate gameplay. While Mario Kart allows you to steer while drifting and allows for two boost levels, Sonic Racing allows you to have three levels of boosting regardless of the vehicle type and allows you to change direction and drift again immediately after boosting, which makes snaking and fire-hopping so much easier to pull off. Mario Kart allows players to press up or down to send certain items in said direction; Sonic Racing allows you to to do the same and release all items at once up or down if having a triple item. Mario Kart allows you to steer while hand-gliding; Sonic Racing can do that with or without transforming and has a quick time barrel roll dodge that grants you an extra boost if obstacles are dodged at the last second in hovercraft mode.

As for the gameplay, Sonic Racing is superior to Mario Kart in every way. Mario Kart has normal racing, grand prix, and time trials; Sonic Racing has that plus missions and career mode - a mix of all game modes at once. Sonic Racing also has shopping which allows you to buy unlockables however you want by earning Sega miles; has an achievement system which not even the newer Mario Kart games have; and actually good online. There is also a huger variety of character and vehicle selection, as Sonic Racing has very little clones, vehicles unique to each character, characters from several different franchises, and being able to transform into boats and hovercrafts. The vehicles themselves are different from one another even if they have the same stats, and the boats and hovercrafts actually bring a new experience altogether - players are actually riding waves and flying through the air entering boosts and dodging obstacles, while Mario Kart is just falling with style and driving underwater with little to no aesthetic and physic change except for a propeller and a hand glider.

Other problems that many Mario Kart games had were the items, track design, AI, and difficulty. Everybody knows that items in Mario Kart are extremely bad and broken, and is the reason why it is considered to be luck-based with little skill to play. Sonic Racing, however; while still relying on items to win, they are ineffective against skilled players and having smaller effects than its Nintendo counterparts, making it more skill based than luck based. The only exception is the All-Star Move, which is basically the Final Smash in a kart racing game given to players that are doing extremely bad or simply falling behind. The track design is also great in Sonic Racing, with shuttle loops, slopes, anti-gravity sections, water and air sections, alternate routes, long shortcuts, aesthetically appealing textures and backgrounds, interactive hazards, etc., which are either lacking or not as great as Mario Karts' track design being boring, generic, and lacking of track features. Though newer Mario Kart games may have better track design, many are just gimmicks and do not blend in with the track well enough or are not used properly.

The most important thing in any video game is whether how hard and how fair it is, and Mario Kart fails to accomplish that. The AI is extremely stupid compared to that of Sonic Racing, in which even the easiest difficulty racers can outsmart the smartest AI in Mario Kart. They only get better at using items, while the AI in Sonic Racing also takes shortcuts, uses items strategically, uses the stats of vehicle to advantage, knows the layout of the tracks, and actually tries to dodge items and hazards. The difficulty itself in Mario Kart is only challenging because of the unfair items; remove those overpowered, luck based items and Mario Kart becomes a walk in the park. Sonic Racing is actually difficult as the AI is highly intelligent and do not have a catch up ability (Mario Kart allows you to somehow catch up to other racers if falling behind as a form of a handicap even if the vehicle is very slow) , while the tracks and items being much more complex.

Sonic Racing is also more fair with the items, has the All-Star Move if you are truly struggling, and will not penalize players with bad ranks. 150 CC is basically beginner difficulty in Sonic Racing, while Mirror Mode is Sonic Racing's medium difficulty. With almost everything being superior to Mario Kart, Sonic & Sega All Stars Racing (and Transformed) is better than its Nintendo counterpart.
Cmeier

Con

My opponent says "Sonic & Sega All-Stars Racing (and Transformed) is far superior to the Mario Kart franchise in every possible way. Better graphics, better music, better controls, better game modes, better vehicles, better items, better track design, better AI, better challenge, better mechanics...you get the idea. With the exception of Mario Kart: Double Dash, Mario Kart DS, and Mario Kart 8". He states that Sonic & Sega All-Stars Racing (and Transformed) is far superior to the Mario Kart franchise in every possible way. then he goes on saying with the exception of Mario Kart: Double Dash, Mario Kart DS, and Mario Kart 8.
Debate Round No. 2
Shrek_sDrecKid

Pro

Opponent must either be toying with me to analyze my intelligence, or just extremely stupid and naive. You were supposed to convince me and the audience on how Mario Kart is actually the superior kart racing franchise to Sonic & Sega All-Stars Racing + Transformed. Yet you fail to accomplish even the most basic of tasks. I am not trying to offend opponent, but even the rebuttals made by illiterate gamers on a gaming forum site have done a better job at convincing me how Mario Kart is better than what I assume of it. Please learn to make a rebuttal instead of just pointing fingers at one's opponents; you may make rebuttals and point out mistakes if you prefer in the next round.

Your rebuttal is that I have stated that although Mario Kart is inferior to Sonic racing, the only exceptions are Mario Kart: Double Dash, Mario Kart DS, and Mario Kart 8. I have stated that to not offend hardcore Mario Kart fans watching this debate, as well as to clarify that those games aren't as bad as I accuse of being. It is mainly the other Mario Kart games that are to blame for ruining the Mario Kart franchise. In this debate, we are discussing about franchises, not about individual games if they are irrelevant. In your case, it is; in mine where I used examples from both games in the franchise, it is acceptable as I have not specified which game it comes from and only the franchise and it even strengthens my argument. In your situation, you are using it as a scape-goat for your lousiness in refuting.

Opponent; however, has failed to even refute one of my main arguments. Opponent should have at least tried to convince me and audience how Mario Kart is more fun, as that is a strong argument that is used by many when participating in debates very similar to this. Go ahead - I authorize the use of that argument against me, but I highly doubt it will be used in high effectiveness. Please do try to refute all of my arguments in the next round, or I will forfeit for opponent's terrible debating skills. Since opponent has failed to refute my arguments, then I will make new arguments to hypothetically refute opponent's hypothetical arguments.
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Graphics may not determine how effective or fun a game is, but for a racing game, it is. Racing, shooting, and sport games are required to have good looking graphics, as it affects the gameplay. Games with bad graphics will make the environment harder to see; therefore, it will be more difficult to react to the on-screen opponents and hazards, which will increase the chances of unfair losses and unfair challenge. Bad graphics also affect the frame-rate, as the speed and smoothness of a game can affect how easy a game is. The higher the frame-rate, the faster a game is, and the more easier it is to control and react in the game. Because almost all Mario Kart games have terrible graphics when compared to Sonic racing and games of its own time, it fails to meet this requirement, especially since it is a racing game.

Do not even attempt to convince or tell me that the music and controls are not that bad, as I have stated that they are good, but still inferior to that of Sonic. Similar to how the Nintendo Wii U may be superior to the PlayStation 3 and the Xbox 360, but that doesn't matter since the PlayStation 4 and the Xbox One is completely more superior to Nintendo's so-called "next-gen" console. The only exception to this is that it is much more difficult to stop and reverse, due to the fact that Sonic racing is much faster than Mario Kart, making it more challenging and fun. The collision detection may be horrible, resulting in glitched deaths and occurrences, but those are extremely minor and can be overcome by getting used to the more precise and tighter controls.

Opponent may argue my gameplay arguments, but I can argue even better. Opponent may claim that the newer Mario Kart games offer coins that can be spent on purchasing new unlockables. However, they can only be unlocked randomly and have no choice on what can or cannot be unlocked. Also, the coins cannot be spent on unlockables besides vehicle upgrades and on getting random goodies, something which both Sonic racing games offer. Opponent may also say that there is customization of vehicle appearances and components, but I have forgot to mention that Sonic racing can do the same through vehicle mods. Though the transformation is a gimmick like the anti-gravity, hand-gliders, and boat propellers, but it is implemented well and changes the experience to make it unique from other racing games. Those Nintendo gimmicks were not implemented correctly and seem too much of a gimmick to actually enhance the gaming experience compared to Sonic racing.

Again, the newer Mario Kart games may have fixed many problems I stated that are prominent with the franchise, but they are still inferior to that of Sonic racing. Mario Kart may have OP items to counter the unfair items, as well as item customizations, but why bother with it when the developers could have just made the original items less broken and more skill based to make the game more fair. The newer Mario Kart games may have better track designs, but they were partly inspired by Sonic racing and the older Mario Kart games still have terrible tracks, whether or not it is old. Last but certainly not least, Nintendo has announced the new upcoming Amiibo which will be compatible with Mario Kart 8 (and maybe even Mario Kart 7) in the future. This will make the AI much more intelligent and will make the AI in Sonic racing look stupid. Correct, but they should have just made the AI better in the first place rather than having to waste money, time, and materials in making those products.
Cmeier

Con

Cmeier forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
Shrek_sDrecKid

Pro

Shrek_sDrecKid forfeited this round.
Cmeier

Con

Cmeier forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
Shrek_sDrecKid

Pro

It appears that opponent has officially lost this debate and I will be automatically be selected as the winner by the voters. Opponent has failed to refute my arguments except for my introduction, and after realizing that, opponent has simply chickened out and decided to not debate. Either they are a troll or seriously lack fundamental debating skills that are needed to talk in everyday, simple conversations. As opponent has forfeited not one, not two, but three consecutive rounds simply because they have nothing to refute after being successfully disciplined, then there is no point in attempting to debate any further. This debate was not only a waste of my time, but it also wasted one's energy and thinking that contributed to such strong arguments.

Next time, if opponent wants to even attempt to debate (not even to debate effectively or win), they must follow these simple guide-lines in order to do so:

-Attempt to refute the main arguments of their opponent.
-Learn to not be disrespectful or personally attack opponent (and nothing else).
-No forfeiture of debate or it will result in immediate loss.
-Have correct spelling and grammar.
-Create your own arguments to counter opponent's arguments.
-Only join and participate in a debate if you are capable of doing so.

As opponent has failed to do even one of these basic steps that are required (not optional) to even achieve the absolute fundamentals of debating, opponent will 100% lose this debate. Again, I will be making hypothetical rebuttals to opponent's hypothetical arguments as last round.

I understand that I have contradicted myself when I have argued to not personally attack others, yet that is what the opponent has been only doing. At least I make the very effort to argue and refute alongside with personal attacks to opponent; opponent simply attacks and does not argue nor refute. Perhaps my opponent did not understand this debate, as they have said at the beginning that they will prove how the Mario Kart franchise is better than Sonic & Sega All-Stars Racing. This debate is about how one franchise is better than the other, not how one franchise is better than only one game. Learn to read my arguments before you make wild accusations of such absurd things. By failing to understand even the most basic of concepts, opponent not only has failed to argue but has also failed to even use the fundamental debating skills that can be used effectively even by young children in elementary school.

Opponent has only refuted my introduction and states that I have claimed that Mario Kart is inferior yet have made exceptions to certain games. That is because that even I have to admit how great those hidden gems are and that they outshine the others within the Mario Kart franchise; I have never stated directly nor indirectly that such titles were superior to the Sonic racing franchise - rather, I have stated that all but those select games are bad. The Mario Kart games that aren't are simply better than those that are bad, but still are not able to surpass the quality of the two games in the Sonic & Sega All-Stars Racing franchise. Opponent may have at least tried to argue that their opponent is absurd and contradicting themselves, by stating that the Mario Kart franchise is bad yet makes exceptions to few games and therefore makes this debate complex and flawed. Unfortunately, that is not how things have turned out and opponent has failed to do even the most simplest of tasks.

Though Mario Kart was never praised for having excellent graphics, it still does not let itself get away as it is a racing game. As said earlier, racing, shooting, and sports games must have high quality graphics in order to be played properly, due to them having faster physics, obstacles, and reflexes. As stated previously as well, though the older games may have been released on technologically limited systems, that does not make it acceptable to have terrible graphics as Nintendo has, time and time again, that they can push the hardware to its limits and make the games have gorgeous looking graphics. Simply improving the frame-rate will not help as the game will still look bad with low resolution textures and inaccurate character models.

However, there has been some occurrences where shooter games having better graphics actually hinder the performance and gameplay. It creates lag and ironically makes it harder to see when trying to shoot down enemies. This may be true, but racing games tend to keep moving at fast speeds, whether or not the frame-rate/graphics are good or not. And also, the racers and items are not extremely small and/or located at far distances;thus, good graphics will not make this a problem. Shooter games are different from racing games as one does not need to have excellent eye-sight or be able to accurately separate a small object or person within a complex, clustered environment. Racing games are actually the opposite, with the race tracks being large and open-ended, and the racers being large. Even if it is like shooter games, racing games have maps to tell you the location of the racers.

I have noticed that my last few arguments were short in quality and quantity. As opponent has failed to recognize this, I have recognized it and will refute them to hypothetically refute opponent's hypothetical discoveries. I cannot deny how revolutionary the Amiibo is. However, when it will be added as a feature in Mario Kart 8, only the Amiibo statues that one has purchased will have great AI; the other CPU opponents will still lack such high intelligence and will still continue to be dumber than the stupidest racers in Sega's rip-off counterpart. So not only does the Amiibo not make all CPU's smarter, but is also a waste of money, effort, and resources that could have been spent on more copies of Mario Kart 8 and Nintendo Wii U consoles (ouch).

As with the gimmicks, Sonic & All-Stars Racing Transformed may have based the transformation gimmicks off of Mario Kart 7, but they were implemented well and completely different to make it a new experience. Despite not copying the anti-gravity gimmick in any way, Sega still manages to make the racers go through anti-gravity segments on tracks without the use of such anti-gravity technology to do so. With the transformations, your vehicle actually changes into an entirely new vehicle and changes in both appearance and physics. When in boat mode, the player is riding a boat and is riding over the water, trying to use the waves and calm strides to their advantage, as well as attempting to drift and boost while on water. The boat propeller, though, only allows players to go under-water. Same with the plane mode, except even worse as the hand-glider only glides, while the hovercraft actually allows you to fly like in an aircraft. It also allows you to do barrel rolls to dodge, air drifts, and you must avoid obstacles as well.

I hope that I will win ; vote for me as the obvious winner.
Cmeier

Con

Cmeier forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
10 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Shrek_sDrecKid 2 years ago
Shrek_sDrecKid
I am going to win for sure, vote for pro!
Posted by Shrek_sDrecKid 2 years ago
Shrek_sDrecKid
I am going to have a rematch debate with somebody else...
Posted by Shrek_sDrecKid 2 years ago
Shrek_sDrecKid
Audience,vote for pro!
Posted by Shrek_sDrecKid 2 years ago
Shrek_sDrecKid
I am not even going to debate if he is going to troll me!
Posted by Shrek_sDrecKid 2 years ago
Shrek_sDrecKid
Opponent is a p*ssy!
Posted by Shrek_sDrecKid 2 years ago
Shrek_sDrecKid
Either opponent is toying with me, or he/she seriously cannot debate against me. I might consider forfeiting this debate soon...
Posted by Shrek_sDrecKid 2 years ago
Shrek_sDrecKid
Opponent, I meant that you must argue that the Sonic & Sega All-Stars Racing franchise is better than the Mario Kart franchise. I never said that one game is better than the other; I said con must state how one franchise is better than the other. Did you not understand?
Posted by Shrek_sDrecKid 2 years ago
Shrek_sDrecKid
@Duncan: Sonic is in a car because Sumo Digital stated that it was difficult to animate and program Sonic and his running friends to race on foot early in development, so they decided to scrap that idea and put them in vehicles instead. He would run faster, especially since he has the speed boost from Sonic Unleashed (the racing game was released in 2010), so it would probably make him too overpowered. Of course, they could make him slower by removing the boost, but then again the Sonic fans would still get pissed off for doing that. Haters gonna hate, I guess.

His stats don't make him the fastest (or at least one of the fastest) because he is in a vehicle and not on foot, and making it high would make him too overpowered. Besides, the speed of the vehicle depends on the size; almost all racing games have larger vehicles being faster and the smaller vehicles being easier to handle. Sonic's vehicle is in between so it won't be as fast and seeing that he is naturally fast, they made him have high acceleration and boost to make up for his lack of speed. I'm not even joking, I'd rather have high acceleration and boost over high speed any day. Maybe it's the physics, but it's not like Mario Kart where having the faster vehicle guarantees victory.
Posted by Duncan 2 years ago
Duncan
Why doesn't Sonic just get out of the car? He'd run faster. Also his stats don't actually make him the fastest in that game.
Posted by Shrek_sDrecKid 2 years ago
Shrek_sDrecKid
Only those that have knowledge and experience with each franchise may participate in this debate. You must have played at least three games from the Mario Kart franchise to be eligible to debate. Please do not take this debate very seriously or it will be forfeited.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by lannan13 2 years ago
lannan13
Shrek_sDrecKidCmeier
Who won the debate:Vote Checkmark-
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeiture