The Instigator
BEN875
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
MrMarkP37
Con (against)
Winning
7 Points

Soup is not a meal. Jerry Seinfeld was supposed to buy Kenny Bania a meal.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
MrMarkP37
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/26/2009 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 8,406 times Debate No: 7986
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (9)
Votes (1)

 

BEN875

Pro

Kenny Bania gives Jerry Seinfeld a brand new Armani suite and tells Jerry that they can call it even if Jerry takes him out for a meal sometime. Armani suites run somewhere between $1,000 and $2,000. Nobody could ever find a better deal than that. Jerry accepts the offer and then takes Kenny out to a restaurant called Mendys a couple days later. Kenny, who is full from a hot dog he ate earlier, orders a bowl of soup. After that, in an unbelievably unappreciative moment, Jerry tries to cheap shot Kenny and say that a bowl of soup is a meal when soup is clearly a side dish. Even Elaine Benes, who is one of Jerry's friends, says that Kenny's order was not really a meal.
MrMarkP37

Con

Let us be clear that the question on the table is whether or not going to a resaurant for a bowl of soup constitutes a meal or not. The topic as to whether soup is a fair repayment for the suit could be the topic for another debate but I believe we should restrict our arguments as to whether to event that Jerry and Kenny were a part of is a meal or not.

I firmly believe that the event that occured between Jerry and Kenny was a meal. There are a few reasons for this. First of all, I believe that a "meal" in the sense it was used is the actual physical act of going to a restaurant and eating together. It does not matter what is consumed because it is the company of the other person that is the chief attribute of the meal. Soup is also certainly filling enough to be a meal on many occasions. The only constraint on a meal is that it consist of food, since soup is food, soup would count as a meal.
Debate Round No. 1
BEN875

Pro

Attempting to define the "chief attribute of a meal" as simply "the company of the other person" is nothing more than an attempt to exploit a technicality. Common sense says that Bania's Armani suit in exchange for a "meal" means that Bania gets a main dish, at a nice restaurant, with Jerry's company. Why was Jerry in such a hurry to get the "meal" out of the way with a guy who was nice enough to pretty much give away a brand new Armani suit? I find this morally wrong and eccentric. A decent human being would have said "It's ok if you're full from your hot dog Kenny. We can get you the meal another time when you're really hungry."
MrMarkP37

Con

In a perfect world your argument makes complete sense but Kenny Bania did not exist in a vaccum. As was clear from his actions and Jerry's reactions to them, Kenny was an annoyance to Jerry. Chiefly, because Bania wanted to hang out with Jerry all the time. Jerry also saw him as a "hack" comedian that was facinated by "things that disolve in milk." I would argue that Bania was being more manipulative than his personality would have you believe. He gave the suit to Jerry because he wanted Jerry's company under the guise of a meal. Jerry probably understood this and agreed to one "meal" with Bania. Both of them should have understood the subtext of the request: "I give you this suit and you hang out with me once." It was when Bania tried to alter the deal by insisting on another "meal" when Jerry cried foul, and rightly so.

Further, Jerry tried to rememdy the situation by eating with Bania at Monk's, the coffee shop, where he ordered soup AND a sandwhich. However, Bania again tried to change the deal by saying that Jerry had to take him to a nice restaurant like Mendy's.

This tells me that Bania didn't care about just any "meal" because no one can argue that soup and a sandwhich is a meal.

If Bania was so concerned about the monetary cost of the meal then why didn't he simply ask Jerry to pay him something for the suit? The reason is that his goal all along was to try to drag Jerry into being his friend and using the suit to do so. That being the case it is clear that Kenny is in the wrong in this situation because he gave Jerry the suit under false pretenses.
Debate Round No. 2
BEN875

Pro

BEN875 forfeited this round.
MrMarkP37

Con

Ben has been going through some issues and I would ask everyone to not hold this foreit against him. This debate will continue in round four.
Debate Round No. 3
BEN875

Pro

Jerry is flattering himself if he thinks that Bania was so desperate to hang out with him that he would manipulate him into it. Regardless of what Jerry thought of his act, Bania was a successful comedian. He didn't need Jerry's friendship. He thought that giving a fellow comedian a suit that he had grown out of from getting huge lifting weights would be a nice gesture and, to call it even, they could enjoy a meal together. It's morally wrong and eccentric to expect Bania to allow Jerry to cheap shot him with technicalities. When Bania suggested Jerry buying him a meal in exchange for the suit he obviously suggested it with something like a swordfish at Mendys in mind and Jerry knew it. Even Elaine told Jerry that she didn't agree with him.
MrMarkP37

Con

There are two important questions in this debate that must be answered. One is what Bania and Jerry understood by the term "meal" and the second is what exactly is a meal.

The answers to both questions favor Jerry in this debate. It was clear that Bania wanted to enjoy Jerry's company during this meal. If he didn't he simply would have asked for some money for the suit. Or, if he was really jonesing for swordfish at Mendy's, he could have asked for some money or a gift card for the meal. It is clear that Bania wanted to enjoy Jerry's company, that was part of the meal.

Now, a meal is food consumed, soup is food comsumed, therefore soup is a meal. Soup can be very filling. If you define a meal as something that sates your appetite then the soup that Bania ate was a meal, because by his own admission he couldn't order anything else because of the hotdog he ate earlier. So, the soup obviously sated whatever appetite he had before going to Mendy's.

Also, Elaine's opinion doesn't matter. In a debate the opinions of non-experts that are not participating in the debate is meaningless. Unless you can show that Elaine was an expert on what constitutes a meal than that argument won't fly.

I will admit though, Bania did look huge after all that weightlifting.
Debate Round No. 4
BEN875

Pro

Jerry giving Bania a gift card to Mendy's is a great hypothetical example of why Jerry is wrong in this situation. In that example, Jerry could have gotten technical and claimed that he had bought Bania a meal. The reason that Jerry didn't do that is because, even though it was never spelled out in detail for him, it is obvious that Jerry's company is part of the meal. Therefore, handing Bania a gift card would have been a cheap shot at fulfilling his end of the deal.
What Jerry did with the soup is no different. He got technical, took advantage of the fact that Bania didn't think he had to spell out the kind of meal he had in mind, and claimed that an appetizer/side dish was a meal. That is a clear cut cheap shot.
MrMarkP37

Con

My opponent has admitted that Jerry's company was a large component of the "meal". This bit of information is of vital importance. Now, we had no idea what kind of food Bania had in mind when he stated that he wanted a meal with Jerry for the suit.

What that leaves us with is this: Jerry's company was a big part of the meal, we must define what is a meal.

Dictionary.com defines a meal in this way: –noun 1. the food served and eaten esp. at one of the customary, regular occasions for taking food during the day, as breakfast, lunch, or supper.
2. one of these regular occasions or times for eating food.
http://dictionary.reference.com...

Meriam-Webster defines it this way: 1 : an act or the time of eating a portion of food to satisfy appetite
2 : the portion of food eaten at a meal.

Both agree that the actual act of eating is a meal. This would mean that Jerry took Bania out to a meal.
Both agree that what is eaten (no matter the portion size) is a meal. This would mean that Jerry took Bania out to a meal.
The Meriam-Webster entry has the further specification that the portion satisfy appetite. Jerry urged Bania to eat more and he claimed that he could not because he was full from the hotdog he ate earlier. That bears repeating, He was FULL. Obviously the soup satisfied his appetite, so the meal even passes the test of that further specification.

In every sense and definition of the word Jerry took Bania out to a meal. Bania was the one trying to pull a technicality by not ordering more food and claiming that Jerry owed him another meal. When Jerry tried to make up for this by buing him soup AND a sandwhich at Monk's, Bania again tried to alter the deal.

Jerry did buy Bania a meal, not once but twice. Bania is in the wrong in this argument, Jerry is in the right.

I would like to thank my very worthy opponent for this debate, it has been very fun. I would also like to thank everyone who viewed the debate and commented on it.
Debate Round No. 5
9 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 9 records.
Posted by rougeagent21 8 years ago
rougeagent21
no soup for you!
Posted by Biggbrother 8 years ago
Biggbrother
Soup is a meal. I know ive eaten them before.
Posted by Thessentials 8 years ago
Thessentials
I like your avatar MrMarkP37 it really fits your persona well! I will enjoy reading your side of the debate.
Posted by Maikuru 8 years ago
Maikuru
Nice picture, Ben hahaha.
Posted by MrMarkP37 8 years ago
MrMarkP37
A portion of food to satisfy a meal? If we used that definition then Kenny could have had Jerry taking him out to dinner for the rest of his life and just claim that the meal didn't satisfy him. It was clear from what Kenny said that he was talking about the act of going out to dinner, as I will expand on in my next arguments.
Posted by leet4A1 8 years ago
leet4A1
I love it when Elaine and Jerry are discussing it and Elaine's asking if it was a bisque, if he dunked bread in the soup and so forth.
Posted by Thessentials 8 years ago
Thessentials
I love that episode. Agreed soup is not a meal.

"meal:an act or the time of eating a portion of food to satisfy appetite."
http://www.merriam-webster.com...

According to Kenny the meal did not satisfy his appetite. Therefore, it's not a meal.
Posted by leet4A1 8 years ago
leet4A1
F*cking classic!

"Soup is not a meal Jerry."
Posted by Maikuru 8 years ago
Maikuru
Love it. Favorite'd.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by MrMarkP37 8 years ago
MrMarkP37
BEN875MrMarkP37Tied
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Total points awarded:07