The Instigator
DoctrinallyCorrect
Pro (for)
Winning
14 Points
The Contender
jmlandf
Con (against)
Losing
12 Points

Sprinkling Converts With Water Is Unscriptural

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/7/2008 Category: Religion
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 944 times Debate No: 5302
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (5)
Votes (4)

 

DoctrinallyCorrect

Pro

I submit that there are no examples of a convert being sprinkled in the New Testament. Because of this fact, sprinkling converts with water is unscriptural. If any one accepts this debate I will have much more to say. But, for now I assert that there is no account of sprinkling, only immersion for convert baptism.
jmlandf

Con

Hello good sir. I look forward to a pleasant debate. I assume you are suggesting that sprinkling Christian converts with water is unscriptural. I also assume unscriptural means against or opposed to the Doctrine of the Bible as a whole and not just the New Testament.

First let me explain that baptism occurred prior to the New Testament. It was for Jewish converts. If one wanted to become Jewish they had to be dipped in water, amongst other things. John the Baptist came around telling Jews they had to be Baptised too. Some didn't take to well to this because that was for unclean people not Jews! Anyway...... I think it is important to look at the original intent of Baptism in that is symbolic and a public confession of faith.

The main scriptural evidence for the mode of sprinkling is found in the Old Testament where sprinkling is enjoined to purifying or cleansing. There are several instances in the Old Testament when blood is sprinkled to symbolize atonement, cleansing and the covenant of God with His people Israel, such as Exodus 24:8, which some Christians believe is symbolic of Christ's blood which atones for sin and is demonstrated through baptism by sprinkling.

I don't disagree that the preferred mode of baptism is to submerge, however sprinkling is certainly not forbidden or unscriptural. There are times when a convert can not physically be submerged due to health, location, etc. Sprinkling is certainly acceptable in these instances. To argue the point misses the meaning of the whole of scripture and is somewhat likened to a Pharisee or legalism.
Debate Round No. 1
DoctrinallyCorrect

Pro

In my my first speech I directly stated that there are no examples in the "New Testament". So there was not need for you to assume what you did since in my opening I mentioned only the NT. If the Bible teached immersion, and you say that it does, and does not teach sprinkling in baptism, and it does not, then sprinkling would be unscriptural and immersion would be scriptural.

None of your sprinkling examples that you gave are of people that I saw, so that would be irrelevant to this discussion. In order to show that sprinkling was acceptable scripturally you would need show it in scripture which you cannot do.

If sprinkling will do, then why not one example to show it's acceptability. Surely there were people in the NT that had the health issues that you talk about and still no example of sprinkling. The bible is way to specific and God is way to willing to save to leave out any acceptable means.

As you are aware, there are an abundace of examples of immerssion in the scriptural record, and if neccessary I shall supply them. Not to mention that the word baptize means to dip or immerse. I submit only one example from scholarship if you need more I will offer it. The following is copied and pasted form Joseph Henry Thayer, one of the most athoritative greek scholars in modern times.

G907
Thayer Definition:
1) to dip repeatedly, to immerse, to submerge (of vessels sunk)
2) to cleanse by dipping or submerging, to wash, to make clean with water, to wash one's self, bathe
3) to overwhelm
jmlandf

Con

While the mode of baptism is not essential to salvation, the mandate of baptism is essential to obedience." Hank Hanegraaff
http://www.equip.org...
The above link is the most interesting perspective on Baptism
My Opponent Says
"If sprinkling will do, then why not one example to show it's acceptability."
Using the same logic, then why not one example to show it is forbidden?
"Surely there were people in the NT that had the health issues that you talk about and still no example of sprinkling."
There are lots of things that are not mentioned in scripture that are not forbidden or unscriptural.
"The bible is way to specific and God is way to willing to save to leave out any acceptable means."
Way to specific is an opinion........ and how do you know the mind of God?
Romans 11:34 "Who has known the mind of the Lord?"

Arguing the mode is not essential. Your correct in saying that most evidence suggests that submerging in water is the preferred mode of baptism, however this does not forbid sprinkling or render it unscriptural. The below scripture offers a Christian perspective on how do deal with differences between believers.
Romans 14:5-18
5One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone. 8If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord.
9For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. 10You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment.....
Debate Round No. 2
DoctrinallyCorrect

Pro

When the bible only commands baptism, which means to immerse (see my previous article), then to not immerse would be to break that command and therefore would be unscriptural. Do you agree that to break a command of scripture, is to be unscriptural? If so, then to sprinkle breaks the command to baptize (Immerse).

By the way I hope my opponent does not try to challenge the theological definition of "baptism" in his round in this debate as I will have not opportunity to respond. That would be unfair and not very gentlemen like. Especially since I forwarded it in my last round when he could have dealt with it and left me an opportunity to rebut. With that being said, the definition of baptism should stand as immerse.

So, again, if the bible commands immersion, and it does by it's command to baptize, then to do otherwise would be disobedience.

When the bible commands to do something that by nature eliminate the possibility of the opposite or something else.

Again, ladies and gentlemen, the command is to baptize, immerse, submerge, and therefore we must or we violate the command. If he says that we can disobey this command, then what other commands can we disobey? Maybe the one on repentance, believing, murder, adultery?

Romans 6:4 KJV
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Baptism is a picture of the burial of Christ. Christ was covered completely in his burial, and ours is a picture of his. When you bury someone you don't just lay them on top of the ground and sprinkle a little dirt on them, you cover them completely. So, baptism is a burial.
jmlandf

Con

jmlandf forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by jmlandf 8 years ago
jmlandf
sure
Posted by DoctrinallyCorrect 8 years ago
DoctrinallyCorrect
if so, i will send you a challenge
Posted by DoctrinallyCorrect 8 years ago
DoctrinallyCorrect
Would you be intrested in a debate on the essentiality of baptism. I believe that Baptism is essential to salvation
Posted by DoctrinallyCorrect 8 years ago
DoctrinallyCorrect
no problem. I really enjoyed the debate Let's debate again on something.
Posted by jmlandf 8 years ago
jmlandf
Sorry I did not post an argument. I didn't fully realize the shorter than 3 day time period to post. My fault entirely.
4 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Vote Placed by jmlandf 8 years ago
jmlandf
DoctrinallyCorrectjmlandfTied
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Vote Placed by theresaland 8 years ago
theresaland
DoctrinallyCorrectjmlandfTied
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Vote Placed by ciscoredneck 8 years ago
ciscoredneck
DoctrinallyCorrectjmlandfTied
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Vote Placed by DoctrinallyCorrect 8 years ago
DoctrinallyCorrect
DoctrinallyCorrectjmlandfTied
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