The Instigator
MassiveDump
Pro (for)
Winning
8 Points
The Contender
Mustachero
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Stabbing Someone Thirty-Seven Times in the Chest Will Probably Kill Them

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
MassiveDump
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/27/2013 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 5,663 times Debate No: 33002
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (0)
Votes (2)

 

MassiveDump

Pro

I'm pretty sure this is common knowledge, but I'd like to see if there is any opposition.
  • First round is acceptance.
  • No new evidence or arguments allowed in round five.
  • No actual stabbing of people.

Breaking these rules will result in a full seven-point loss.

Good Luck!

Mustachero

Con

I accept, and is this a troll debate or I'am seriously going to have to defend this position? I'm prepared to do either.
Debate Round No. 1
MassiveDump

Pro

This is a troll topic, but we will be debating it seriously.


RESOLVED: Stabbing someone thirty-seven times in the chest will probably kill them.

Definitions

Stab [stab] v. to pierce or wound with or as if with a pointed weapon.

Chest [chest] n. anatomy, the trunk of the body from the neck to the abdomen.

Probably [PROB-uh-blee] adv. in all likelihood; very likely

Random House Dictionary 2013

Naturally, wounding someone with a pointed weapon thirty-seven times in the trunk of the body from the neck to the abdomen will in all likelihood kill them.

Contention One: What is Causing the Stabbing?

I am quite sure that my opponent would like to say that if one would stab someone with a paper clip thirty-seven times in the chest, they probably wouldn't die. However, according to FBI criminal database, 95 percent of stabbing assaults / homicides are committed with a knife or razor, typically long enough to penetrate into the vital organs if aimed for the chest.

So now the question is: how likely is it to penetrate into a vital organ if stabbed thirty-seven times in the chest? That brings me to my next contention.


Contention Two: Anatomy of the Chest




Take a look at the diagram above. As you can see, one stab to any point on the chest could easily puncture the heart or a lung. The collapse of a lung or the heart could cause immediate death.

And that's just the likelihood of one stab. If one were to stab someone in the chest thirty-seven times, there is no doubt that he would puncture a lung, the heart, or both lungs and the heart, undeniably causing death.

Conclusion

It would take seventeen God-given miracles to avoid death after being stabbed thirty-seven times in the chest.

Therefore, stabbing someone thirty-seven times in the chest will probably kill them.
Mustachero

Con

Since I was not allowed to stab people to test my theory, I have no impressive murder video. However I do have a video what my opponent wants you to think getting stabbed in the chest looks like.

As my opponent mentioned early, all of our vitals are found in our chest, however he failed to mention the giant bone shield protecting them. This "shield" is called the rib cage and it serves as protection to our major organs to insure that an object can simply penetrate our chest and kill us. The ribs are relatively close together, with makes penetrating them with the "average knife" (I will elaborate on this) used in knife crime very difficult. Further more with all the intervening muscle, most strikes that manage to pass the rib cage, would be either stopped or deflected away from the heart and most important veins, arteries and parts of the lungs. The heart is about 3.5 inches away from the skin in the average person and is protected by a wall of thick muscle.
I can't post picture because I don"t know how, but here is a link to a picture
http://www.infovisual.info...

One important factor that pro addressed was the type of knife used in the crime. The type of knife used in crime is as follows.
http://www.bladeforums.com...
"Nearly 80% of all crimes committed with knives the knife or object used was a standard kitchen or steak knife.
17% used standard pocket knives.
2% used (other edged instrument) like carpet knife, razor etc...
Less than 0.5% used a butterfly or auto knife or other exotic opening style knife."
Let's further define kitchen knives and knife size of each type
Big scary (aka. Chef) knives which are between 6 and 12 inches, although inches seems to be the most common size. Then the paring knife, which is a small pain edge which is used for vegetables, legumes, fruits, etc... These knives are between 2.5 and 4 inches.
Bread knives are between 6 and 10 inches and have a serrated edge, however they are not necessarily pointed.
The final type of knife, Butter knives are not exactly great at stabbing.
Folding knives come in many varieties, however they tend to come between 2inches (pen knives) and 4 inches (they can be bigger, but 4 inches is a common size and generally considered the biggest useful size for multi-purpose knives), with an average of about 3.5 inches.
Razors cannot stab.
Box cutters are thin blades with very poor stabbing power, strength, and length.
Already, many of these blades are simply too wide or too short to stab at the vitals. Chef's knives (too wide), paring knives (generally too short), box cutters, and most pen knives and smaller folding knives (both not long enough).
Another problem the assailant could encounter is the type of steel the knife consists of. Today, most knives are composed of stainless steel, and for the most part it is is 440. For anyone who isn't into metallurgy or knives, this may not mean much, however in this scenario it makes quite a difference. Most cheap stainless (like 440) used in popular knives is very flexible and can break when subjected to enough force, such as when it is planted into bone or encounters muscle due to the poor heat treatment.

The wonders of modern medicine and the body also come into play when treating stab wound. When a foreign object enters the body such as a knife, the tissues to contract around it and seal off the blood vessels in order to protect the body and stop blood loss. The mostly superficial wounds caused by the stabbing would not affect the person, and any blow that got inside the rib cage and into the muscle would be sealed off by the tissues to stop bleeding. The ribs would absorb most of the damage and prevent the vast majority of the damage to the major organs. Assuming no injuries to any major organs or the heart, there is no need to be concerned. If the heart were to be stabbed, a person could survive up to five minutes to get medical attention if an aorta were pierced. If a lung has been nicked, there is no major cause for concern as long as medical attention is gotten within an hour. If the lung were pierced, as long pressures were applied, chances of death are very low unless the wound is large enough to allow significant amounts of air to pass.
http://www.livestrong.com...
Debate Round No. 2
MassiveDump

Pro

Contention One: What is Causing the Stabbing?

Many thanks to my opponent for not arguing that someone wouldn't die if they were stabbed thirty-seven times in the chest with a plastic spoon or a wet noodle or something immature like that. It seems we can debate more professionally now.

Contention Two: Anatomy of the Chest

I apologize as in round two, I did not include bleeding out as a method of dying from stab wounds, but it's a beyond likely situation, even with one stab. Thirty seven? Piece of cake.

Let's go over the knives that my opponent mentioned and why they are still capable of being deadly when used thirty-seven times to one's chest.

Chef's knives (after thirty-seven stabs, would easily have made it through the rib cage in ten of those, causing sever bleeding even if it didn't), Paring knives (bleeding), box cutters etc. (bleeding).

Most common knives are 440. However, let's listen in on what a martial arts expert has to say.

"There are many steels very suitable for knife blades out there, and there are also steels that have no business being used to make knife blades. Some good tough steels are D2, ATS-34, AUS-6, AUS-8, O-1, ATS-55, 1085-95, and 440C. Many will read the last steel in that list and scoff, but rest assured, 440C is some damn tough steel. ... 440C: Is a stainless steel with a carbon content of roughly 1.2%, and a high chromium content that makes it very rust resistant. Properly hardened 440C is ideally rated at 56-59RC, and is an excellent utility steel. It resists breaking quite well despite its high carbon content."

[http://www.martialtalk.com...]

And either way, a good thirty seven stabs from a good enough sharp weapon, whether it bends or not, can easily lead to death by exsanguination.

Rebuttal 1: The Amazing Body

"The ribs would absorb most of the damage and prevent the vast majority of the damage to the major organs."

Bleeding to death remains the major dilemma, whether the weapon gets through the rib cage or not. Any first year High School health student could tell you that when a knife is removed from where it was inserted, the wound will bleed profusely. In order to be stabbed thirty-seven times, there must be at least thirty-six removings of the weapon, assuming it is probable that the attacker only has one weapon. Thirty-six times the bleeding means thirty-six times the death, to put it in children's terms.

" ...and any blow that got inside the rib cage and into the muscle would be sealed off by the tissues to stop bleeding.

It takes time for the tissues to contract enough for bleeding to stop completely, more than what's available after being stabbed thirty-seven times. Even so, to many muscle tissues contracting at one time leads to a whole new issue in itself.

"If the heart were to be stabbed, a person could survive up to five minutes to get medical attention if an aorta were pierced."

This statistic lines up with one who has been stabbed once. Three or more stabs to the aorta would not allow time for medical attention.

" If the lung were pierced, as long pressures were applied, chances of death are very low unless the wound is large enough to allow significant amounts of air to pass."

As opposed to just one, with thirty-seven stabs to the chest, it's likely enough that more than a small pierce will be inflicted on the lungs.

Bottom Line:

No one has ever been stabbed thirty-seven times in the chest and lived. Fair enough, if you are stabbed thirty-seven times in the chest, you will probably die.
Mustachero

Con

Mustachero forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
MassiveDump

Pro

You are indeed brave, sir night, but the fight is mine.
Mustachero

Con

Mustachero forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
MassiveDump

Pro

I'm upset by this. Pro can has win.
Mustachero

Con

Mustachero forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
No comments have been posted on this debate.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by Vulpes_Inculta 4 years ago
Vulpes_Inculta
MassiveDumpMustacheroTied
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Total points awarded:40 
Reasons for voting decision: FF
Vote Placed by Ragnar 4 years ago
Ragnar
MassiveDumpMustacheroTied
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Total points awarded:40 
Reasons for voting decision: Conduct for forfeit. Argument: Con's argument is right, however pro's counter about bleeding went unchallenged. Filling in the missing rounds; overall someone with medical attention has a decent chance of survival, but if being stabbed that many times they are not likely to get prompt medical attention. Sources: Due to my medical knowledge I cannot remove my bias, the human body is a tough bastard which at least short term can survive massive amounts of trauma; thus pro gets no credit for his round 2 video, as the man Carl The Llama killed, died from having his hands cut off and ate, not from the 37 stabs to the chest.