The Instigator
leonitus2464
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
kasmic
Con (against)
Winning
14 Points

Stalin wasn't a communist

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
kasmic
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/26/2014 Category: Politics
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,237 times Debate No: 62120
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (4)
Votes (3)

 

leonitus2464

Pro

I'll be arguing the position that Stalin wasn't a communist.

Round one: acceptance
Round two: debate
Round three: debate
Round four: conclusion
kasmic

Con

I accept! Good luck Pro.
Debate Round No. 1
leonitus2464

Pro

First piece of evidence that Stalin was not a communist is that his ideology went against the original idea of communism because he was totalitarian

http://en.m.wikipedia.org...

http://www.merriam-webster.com...

So if the original idea of communism isn't totalitarian than Stalin can't be considered a communist.
kasmic

Con

Pro says "Stalin wasn"t a communist." I submit several definitions of what constitutes a communist.

Communist: "a person who believes in communism or is a member of a political party that supports communism"(1)

Communist: "a member of the Communist Party or movement."(2)

Communist:" a person who believes in or belongs to a party that supports communism"(3)

Communist: "a member of a Communist Party"(4)

Communist: "A member of a Marxist-Leninist party."(5)

Stalin was a member of a "Communist party."(6) The party was called "The Communist Party of the Soviet Union (CPSU)" which was founded by Lenin.(7)

Stalin might not positively reflect the tenets of communism, and many who believe in this ideology would obviously like to disown Stalin. Pro"s arguments are similar to saying that the Ku Klux Klan is not Christian and that Islamic terrorists are not Islamic. However, the Ku Klux Klan is a Christian group, Islamic Terrorists are Islamic, and Stalin was a communist.

With all due respect to my opponent, I have shown that due to the consistency of the definitions of communism and the fact that Stalin was a member of a communist party; Stalin was indisputably a communist.

The resolution is negated.

(1)http://www.merriam-webster.com...
(2)http://dictionary.reference.com...
(3)http://dictionary.cambridge.org...
(4)http://www.yourdictionary.com...
(5)http://www.thefreedictionary.com...
(6)http://www.britannica.com...
(7)http://en.wikipedia.org...
Debate Round No. 2
leonitus2464

Pro

Making a political party and calling it communist doesn't make it communist. If it doesn't go with the original idea of communism it's not communism and stalins communist party was authoritarian not communist. There was no difference between the way Stalin ran the ussr and how hitler ran nazi Germany but there is a difference between communism and athoritarianism.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org...

http://en.m.wikipedia.org...

It's clear that Stalin was athoritarian not communist
kasmic

Con

I affirm that to be a communist requires only to have been a member of a communist political party as all five of the definitions I used confirm this. My opponent has used as his sources merriam-webester and wikipedia. Both these sources confirm that Stalin was a communist.

My opponents argument is a fine example of a "no true Scotsmen" fallacy which is "s an informal fallacy, an ad hoc attempt to retain an unreasoned assertion. When faced with a counterexample to a universal claim ("no Scotsman would do such a thing"), rather than denying the counterexample or rejecting the original universal claim, this fallacy modifies the subject of the assertion to exclude the specific case or others like it by rhetoric, without reference to any specific objective rule ("no true Scotsman would do such a thing"). (1)

Here is an example of the no true scotsman

" Person A: "No Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge."
Person B: "I am Scottish, and I put sugar on my porridge."
Person A: "Well, no true Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge." (1)

Lets apply this to our debate,.

Pro: Stalin is not a communist
Con: Here are several definitions of communist... Stalin fits all of them.
Pro: Well, no true communist is authoritative Stalin was authoritative and therefore not a communist.

I have shown that my opponents argument is a informal logical fallacy.

Just to be thorough I will again provide the definition from merriam-webster (the same website pro used.) as to what constitutes a communist

Communist: "a person who believes in communism or is a member of a political party that supports communism"

I will also present again from wikipedia(the same website pro used) that Stalin was a member of a political party that supports communism. "The CPSU was committed to communist thought and according to its party statute the CPSU adhered to Marxism"Leninism, an ideology based on the writings of Lenin and Karl Marx, and formalized under Joseph Stalin." (3) It also mentions that this political party was "founded in 1912 by the Bolsheviks, the majority faction of the Russian Social Democratic Labour Party"a revolutionary group led by Vladimir Lenin. If a group founded by Lenin is not communism... I dont know what would be.

Stalin is indisputably a communist! The resolution is negated.

(1)http://en.wikipedia.org...
(2)http://www.merriam-webster.com...
(3)http://en.wikipedia.org...
Debate Round No. 3
leonitus2464

Pro

leonitus2464 forfeited this round.
kasmic

Con

extended argument's

Conclusion

My opponent committed the no true scotsmen fallacy. Our debate summed up looks something like this...

Pro: No communist is an authoritarian.
Con: Stalin is a communist, and he is authoritarian.
Pro: Well, no true communist is an authoritarian.

Stalin perfectly fits the definition of a communist.
Debate Round No. 4
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by Shield 2 years ago
Shield
@Theunkown: Ron Paul was a Representative in the House for 11 terms....
Posted by Shield 2 years ago
Shield
Pro is using links to do the argument for him. Sad.
Posted by Theunkown 2 years ago
Theunkown
@cheyennebodie,
as few as 'pure' capitalists (aka zero)
Posted by cheyennebodie 2 years ago
cheyennebodie
Could you name any leaders of any countries that have been pure communist?
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by STALIN 2 years ago
STALIN
leonitus2464kasmicTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: FF and lack of arguments from Pro.
Vote Placed by lannan13 2 years ago
lannan13
leonitus2464kasmicTied
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Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeiture
Vote Placed by dynamicduodebaters 2 years ago
dynamicduodebaters
leonitus2464kasmicTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: FF, more convincing arguments