The Instigator
frankfurter50
Pro (for)
The Contender
BMyers
Con (against)

Statues of racists need to be removed from the world.

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Debate Round Forfeited
BMyers has forfeited round #3.
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/30/2017 Category: Politics
Updated: 4 months ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 486 times Debate No: 103718
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (14)
Votes (0)

 

frankfurter50

Pro

Statues of racists are EVILLLLLLL. They must be removed from everywhere, every place, in the world. They are ruining our reputation as a sane nation. The people depicted in these statues are fiends and monsters.
BMyers

Con

I accept and opt to use my first round as an Acceptance Only

I will yield definitions to see what you supply for R2 - if you do not supply definitions in R2, I will then opt to provide.

I look forward to this debate as I am increasingly growing more confident in my abilities to "debate any angle of any topic"

Good luck, and I await your R2 Case for the Affirmative
Debate Round No. 1
frankfurter50

Pro

Statues of racists are disgusting. They look like garbage. Imagine, it's the 21st century, and we still have sick, filthy statues of people who spent centuries killing, whipping, and torturing fellow humans. They are monsters. MONSTERS. They are sick in the head. They must be burned down and go.

these people are sick. Now, like you said, I should specify what I mean. I don't mean just here in America, I mean all over the world. But I would like to focus on just here, since no other country can match the limitless horrors that we have committed upon the black race.

These statues must be removed. They reveal the most ugly, contemptible side of everything about America as a country. These people are utter, sheer garbage. They must die, leave. Any statues of sick people who owned slaves must be melted and killed, like the fiends and beasts that they are. I feel nothing but utter hatred towards them. They are animals who committed mass genocide, just as much as Hitler.

I look forward to your next argument.
BMyers

Con

Just got electricity back on 3 hours ago - only 42 minutes until the round is forfeit!!! I gotta hurry so I can thrash this person in this debate. Ill go as fast as I can to open up the debate in R3 and beyond

First and foremost - there exist no policy that allows a nation to impose their will over another nations sovereignty.

So point blank fact number 1 - America has zero authority, or right, to remove anybody's statues anywhere in the world (THAT IS NOT IN AMERICA.) So even if there are statues of people we would call "racists" we cannot remove them without it being a major peace violation (and, depending on the nation, a trade violation consequence)

What is racism?
bing.com search yields this definition, "prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior."
What is a statue?
bing.com search yields this definition, "a carved or cast figure of a person or animal, especially one that is life-size or larger."

Now let's get a clearer understanding of why statues are even built in the first place.

What is a monument?
bing.com search yields this definition, "a statue, building, or other structure erected to commemorate a famous or notable person or event."

What my opponent is failing to connect are the historical, cultural, and societal reasoning why statues were built in the first place - they are MONUMENTS. It is there to memorialize a person, place, or event.

Looking into the US Smithsonian there exists ZERO, let me repeat that - ZERO statues that were built to memorialize any form of racism. All statues built with taxpayer money were approved through the proper channels before construction. The men that were memorialized during the Civil War are undergoing a 'revisionist history' through the removal of the Confederacy from our memories and education programs. I will go into an elaborated attack in my R3 on why the removal of civil war statues are actually an exercise of 'ironic-racism' against a group of people onto itself.

So - to summarize point 2 - there are no "statues of racists" in America. None have ever been constructed - take off your "racists glasses" and view with the understanding of the core concept on WHY memorials are built in the first place. I assure you, and every archive in US's inventory will support - Racism has not been memorialized, nor are there memorials of racism that exist for our 'need for removal.' The fact that my opponent never defines any specific "racism against _____" to demonstrate only leads me to believe they are wrapped up in the news-hype and are just as ignorant as most sheeple out there. The reasons each statue was built were not that of 'racism' but rather their accomplishments for society - Look it up. You won't find 1 single monument dedicated to racism standing in America...so what statues exactly are we removing...?

*Only until my opponents R2 is there some form of clarity offered of 'what statues are to be removed.' I believe my opponent is trying to reference the Civil War monuments currently being removed throughout the country. If this is the case, then in my R3 I will specify my angle towards 'Civil War Monuments'

Point 3 - Removing a statue does...what exactly?

Answer me this...what exactly is accomplished by removing a statue? Other than the image being removed - NOTHING AT ALL. History books will not be rewritten, nor will the memories of the events/people be altered. All that happens is an 'image-thing.' If removing the visual of something REALLY fixes anything, then we would see a completely different world - however, it is a very simple solution for the ignorant masses to give them some sense of pride for their misguided efforts. But I do see the appeal in trying to be apart of some sort of 'revolution' - we have seen other cultures topple statues to symbolize they no longer live under this dictator's rule...wait...haha, hold up, are you suggesting that the removal of "racist statues" in America is a form or "revolution?" Haha - please, feel free to elaborate ANY condition that we have been living under since the 'pre-Civil War Era'

To summarize - Not only are there no racist statues that need to be removed, but the action of removing the statues is pointless and accomplishes nothing.

Point 4 - It is only leading to further separation, ignorance, and hate.

This point is self explanatory - and I will submit this as I only have a few minutes left. There aren't any peaceful and nonviolent solutions being offered - just destruction. Any solution which offers absolution is the wrong choice - and by this I side against the topic.

I hope all this qualifies for a case as I had less than an hour to prepare/make it. I will have my rebuttal in R3 against my opponents R2 plus my reconstruction in R3 as well.

Case Summary:
A1 - US has zero authority to remove statues outside of the US
A2 - There exist no statues built to memorialize racism in the US
A3 - Removing a statue doesn't accomplish anything
A4 - This entire topic is causing negativity - not positive solutions.
Debate Round No. 2
frankfurter50

Pro

Oh, gee, BMMyers. Sorry to hear about "Hurricane Harvey destroying your Texas town." Maybe it's God punishing you for committing centuries of injustice upon black people. Maybe people should just move away from the south. If I lived somewhere where my home was destroyed every ten years, I'd probably move away. Just sayin'. If any judges are listening, please donate to all the poor people who live in Colorado and Oregon. They may not have to deal with hurricanes, but they do have to deal with republicans, which are just as bad.

Anyway, let's get back to the stuff at hand, ok?

First, your argument one. US has zero authority to remove statues outside the US. Well, that may be true. But we can give those countries friendly advice, tell them that if they have any statues of racists, they might want to take them down-since statues of racists are evil no matter where they are. Look, the US has done some pretty messed up stuff-but other countries have too, I gotta say. If a country had a monument of Hitler, why wouldn't most of the world, including the US, want to take it down? Of course they would!

And if the country with the Hitler statue refuses to take it down, it means that something is seriously wrong with that country and that there might be grounds for war.

But all that stuff about outside the US is filler. Like I said in round one, I don't want to focus on that too much, but I'm glad you took the time to get that out of the way. Other countries do have some weird stuff up in their countries, like sculptures of evil people and like that, so those should go away too.

Ok, point two. There are no "racist statues" in America. Okay, I'll go along with that. The statues might not be celebrating the guy owing slaves, or leading them out to the torture shack, or raping their wives and beating their children. The statues are probably celebrating some civil war victory, some battle won, some tremendous achievement, something that the guy did to help out.

It doesn't matter.

Like that one guy said in the comments- "The civil war wasn't just about slavery!" You're very wrong it wasn't. It was only about slavery. Nothing but. there was nothing else going on in the country at the time that divided people up as much as slavery. Sure, there might have been a few other little political issues going on with the white people-there always are. But for the black people, the only thing they cared about was, "Oh, gee, maybe slavery will end now, and we'll get to live like human beings now." Slavery was it. That is the only reason why the civil war was ever fought. Abraham Lincoln once said to Harriet Beecher Stowe, who wrote Uncle Tom's Cabin, "So you're the little woman who started this great war." And if that doesn't sum it up, I don't know what does.

But like I was saying, these statues don't memorialize RACISM-they don't depict the blood or tears. They just memorialize RACISTS doing non racist things. They just look like a normal guy, a guy you'd see everyday. They don't bother to mention that the guy MURDERED TWENTY PEOPLE BECAUSE OF THE COLOR OF THEIR SKIN. Why would any statue do that? It would be too honest. You mentioned how these statues were built with "taxpayer money." Racists can pay taxes just as well as normal people can. These statues were built by racists, for racists. Nobody except racists would ever memorialize a murderer for ANYTHING, slavery or otherwise.

Now, argument 3. Removing a statue doesn't accomplish anything. It does, Myers. It does. It accomplishes a whole lot. If I saw a piece of graffiti, I'd remove it, right? Well, aren't these statues just a type of graffiti, albeit made by important people? These statues are like drawing a swastika. They are just as ugly and disgusting. Think of a tourist coming here. He sees a statue of Robert E. Lee, and he thinks, "That's ugly. Why haven't they cleaned that up yet?" But if he sees the Lee statue replaced by a statue of Lincoln, the guy will think, "Wow. they really know how to improve their country." Removing our racist statues could improve tourism by a whole lot, and improve our identity in the eyes of other nations.

Wouldn't it make black people happier? A black guy wouldn't want to pass by that statue every day. Lots of black guys probably live in Charlottesville. They don't want to see Robert E. lee every day. They hate him. He owned slaves. He should go. Not removing these statues is a crime against the people who hate him, and whose ancestors were killed by them. People hate these statues, except for racists.

Finally, argument 4-that it only increases hatred and division. How could it do that, really? Black people will be happier, everybody would be happier. Except people who like the statues. And I don't want to be friends with them. In the days following Charlottesville, people were angry. Now, everything has kind of settled down. The division only lasts a few days. then everything is ok again.

You say it's causing negativity, and not positive solutions. I ask you, in your next argument, to tell me another positive solution-an alternative to ripping these sick people out of the ground and carting them off to the junkyard. I don't see one. If you do, it can't be as good as mine.

I'd like to leave you with an image of the statue in Charlottesville:

https://static01.nyt.com...

I ask you, is this statue acknowledging that this man is a racist? Does it show a killer, a man who murdered thousands for a bushel of cotton? Does this show a man who hated people because of the color of their skin? Does this show a murderer?

Or does it show a hero? I'll leave it up to you.

I must say, you made a pretty good argument for only an hour. I await your next one.
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Debate Round No. 3
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Debate Round No. 4
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Debate Round No. 5
14 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by frankfurter50 4 months ago
frankfurter50
Did hurricane Harvey kill you?
Posted by frankfurter50 4 months ago
frankfurter50
Hurry up, sir!
Posted by frankfurter50 4 months ago
frankfurter50
Yeah, sorry about how the website has this weird thing where the comments repeat stupidly.
Posted by frankfurter50 4 months ago
frankfurter50
Yeah, sorry about how the website has this weird thing where the comments repeat stupidly.
Posted by BMyers 4 months ago
BMyers
I live in Bridge City, TX - if you have heard about this thing called Hurricane Harvey then you will know that we just got electricity today and are still flood-locked from anywhere else

If you would like to help out a fellow American, then feel free to donate to the Red Cross so we can have meals for the people who lost their houses down here

Otherwise - be grateful I am entertaining this asinine topic and your ignorant hate speech

I will have my argument posted soon, as reading the comments has exhausted my patience for you
Posted by frankfurter50 4 months ago
frankfurter50
I am ready for your next argument. Yawn.
Posted by frankfurter50 4 months ago
frankfurter50
I am ready for your next argument. Yawn.
Posted by frankfurter50 4 months ago
frankfurter50
Please hurry it up.
Posted by frankfurter50 4 months ago
frankfurter50
I am ready for your next argument. please proceed. And just so you know, John, the civil war was just about slavery. Nothing else, ok? All other political thingies are the time were tiddlywinks.
Posted by frankfurter50 4 months ago
frankfurter50
I am prepared. Pleases post your argument asap.
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