The Instigator
Isaiah68
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Romanii
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Stop The T.P.P

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/5/2015 Category: Politics
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,007 times Debate No: 76253
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (7)
Votes (0)

 

Isaiah68

Pro

The TPP (Trans-Pacific Partnership) is a trade agreement that should alarm most Americans regardless of political affiliation. It is the biggest trade agreement since NAFTA (We all have seen how well that worked with Liberal policy).

Here's the interesting part: King Obama says the people cannot know what is in the TPP. I guess we are just degenerates with no intellect. This story gets better. Not only can the the people not know what is in the trade agreement, Congress is forbidden from talking about it. The documents are in the basement of the capital. If congress or members of Government wants see the documents, they must; be escorted the entire time, they cannot re order or take notes, they are handed one page at a time, and they have been threatened with imprisonment for any dissemination of information. What could possibly be good about MASSIVE legislation that the public can not know the details of?

Stop the TPP. plain and simple.
Romanii

Con

I accept the debate.
Burden of proof is on Pro to affirm the resolution; to win, I just have to refute his case. There are several problems with Pro's (only) argument:

(1) It does not even attempt to affirm the resolution -- it doesn't show why we should "stop the TPP". All it does is show that the government needs to be more transparent about TPP negotiations. A need for transparency is not the same thing as a need for elimination.

(2) There's a good reason why the negotiations have to be kept secret -- it's to prevent domestic special interest groups (e.g. lobbies, corporations, etc) from influencing the process. This is important because historically, such groups have successfully been able to push for reforms and minor edits to various bills which benefited themselves at the expense of everyone else (for example, the ban on buying prescription drugs from Canada).

(3) Once the negotiations are complete, the specifics of the TPP will be made public anyhow, so it won't actually be subverting the democratic process, as Pro seems to be claiming.

Pro's only argument is flawed on three levels. The resolution is negated.
Debate Round No. 1
Isaiah68

Pro

I completely disagree with your assessment. It's vague. Instead of trying to revert to community college debate me. I'm sick of people on here dancing around issues. Here it is: The TPP as mentioned, is a MASSIVE trade agreement that is being completely shielded from public knowledge. Congress has been threatened to not release details. I am stating: The TPP needs to be stopped, because the American people should NEVER, have to accept the passage of legislation without oversight of the people. Congress should never be threatened to stay silent. This is not the same as a National security matter.

So again, I affirm that any legislation that is clandestine in nature, that has to be concealed from the public, a reasonable person would believe there will be much opposition to the agreement itself, as well as extra that will be involved. There is no viable reason the American people should not have full disclosure of a major trade deal.

So, what you are debating me on, why this should be allowed to pass.

Good luck.
Romanii

Con

Pro's *only* response is that the secrecy surrounding the TPP negotiations (1) is inherently negative, and (2) somehow automatically implies that the TPP itself is detrimental.

The first point is nothing but a bare assertion; why is secrecy an innately bad thing? I already gave a valid justification for the secrecy involved (which Pro didn't even attempt to respond to), and like I said, the specifics of the TPP will be revealed anyways once negotiations are over, so it won't get passed without undergoing the democratic process. The lack of transparency involved in TPP negotiations does not serve as sufficient reason to "stop the TPP".

The second point is flawed as well, because the general idea of the TPP is quite well-known -- it is a free trade agreement between the US, Canada, and various Asian countries with booming economies. Given my opponent's ideology, I doubt he would contest that free trade results in economic growth for everyone involved, and in addition to that, the partnership would ensure that the US continues to have a large geopolitical influence in the region (which, again, I think my opponent would concede is a good thing). So there is no reason to believe that the secrecy is due to the TPP being a bad idea -- it is far more likely that the secrecy is there in order to prevent special interest groups from influencing negotiations at the expense of everyone else.

Pro's case fails. The resolution is negated.
Debate Round No. 2
Isaiah68

Pro

Isaiah68 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
Isaiah68

Pro

Isaiah68 forfeited this round.
Romanii

Con

Romanii forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
Isaiah68

Pro

Isaiah68 forfeited this round.
Romanii

Con

Romanii forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
7 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Posted by Isaiah68 2 years ago
Isaiah68
Adding to Cons debate stating that the info of the TPP will be made public when the negotiations are done,. In fact, the bill will be signed into legislation first. I will leave you to do the research on that.
Posted by Isaiah68 2 years ago
Isaiah68
I take a very firm stance, that given the secret of the document, and my general distrust for the Government like millions of others, the TPP should not in any way move forward. There needs to be more transparency. I believe that the points you brought up, would be much more related to a situation where they (Government) DID, in fact be completely open with the TPP. What could possible ever be the necessity of the American Government, to want to pass legislation, major trade deals, and not want the public to know the content? How could that possibly not have large potential to be something detrimental? There's a clearing culpability here. Knowingly, and willingly hiding these documents. Why?
Posted by Contra 2 years ago
Contra
The debate over the TPP right now is over the idea of Trade Promotion Authority (TPA). Congress will in the end decide to either approve or reject the treaty, using a simple up or down majority vote.

The debate over TPA is whether or not the administration can negotiate the treaty, and submit the treaty to Congress without any amendments.

What are your thoughts?
Posted by Isaiah68 2 years ago
Isaiah68
Well my main point and argument here, is no law or deals should EVER be passed that American people are not allowed to have knowledge of. And have an opinion on.
Posted by Contra 2 years ago
Contra
I am seriously considering taking you up on this debate, but there is a problem... the TPP hasn't been completely hashed out, it's still in the negotiation process. Would be be debating the ideas behind it, like free trade vs the status quo?
Posted by Isaiah68 2 years ago
Isaiah68
Yes it is very concerning that a public official can have the nerve and arrogance to hide a massive trade agreement, or any agreement for that matter from the people.
Posted by theisticscuffles 2 years ago
theisticscuffles
I am all "pro" on this debate! I was glad that Elizabeth Warren spoke out directly against this Obama character regarding the deleterious effects of the TPPA. It looks like Australia also has problems with the TPPA and Obama's strange hurried attempt to get it passed. Australia does not want its national courts to be pre-empted by these international, corporate-controlled courts and the TPPA countries are considering giving Australia an exemption that the other countries do not have! Crazy. That is all I have to say.
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