The Instigator
yomama12
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Jerry947
Con (against)
Winning
3 Points

Suicides are Justified

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
Jerry947
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/21/2016 Category: Health
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 512 times Debate No: 85346
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (3)
Votes (1)

 

yomama12

Pro

Full definition of suicide: : the act or an instance of taking one's own life voluntarily and intentionally especially by a person of years of discretion and of sound mind (http://www.merriam-webster.com...)

The B.O.P must be upheld if you wish to be able to win.

My B.O.P: To prove that it would be justified if you did/ wanted to commit suicide(take your own life).

Opponent's B.O.P: To prove that it would not be justified for someone to take their own life.

First round acceptance.

Third round rebuttals.

No trolling.

No Forfeiting rounds.
Failure to uphold to these rules will result in an automatic 7 point forfeit.
Jerry947

Con

I accept this debate.
Debate Round No. 1
yomama12

Pro

I thank my opponent for accepting this debate.

1. Reasons for doing so

Before we talk about them being justified, let's name a few reasons why people might be tempted to doing so.

-Extreme depression
-Poverty
-Losing someone close
-Divorce
-Bullying
-etc.

2. They want to do it
Why would you want to stop someone from doing what they want to do? I bring to mind a scene from the movie "The Incredibles". Mr. Incredible saved a man from falling off a building. But the man actually sued Mr. Incredible because he was trying to commit suicide. If someone wants to commit suicide, if you stop them from doing so, it could lead to either even more depression, or a serious injury that would be far worse than death, like getting your spine snapped, then living the rest of your life in a wheelchair, speaking through a computer. ( I am not speaking bad about people like Stephen Hawking, who are in this predicament.)

3.The Catholic Church
I've seen all of my opponents debates, so I know that most of his debates evolve around Religion. Well, I think I have found the perfect argument in this sense, from the website Psychology Today(https://www.psychologytoday.com...):

"The Roman Catholic Church has long argued that one"s life is the property of God and thus that to commit suicide is to deride God"s prerogatives. The counterargument, by philosopher David Hume (1711-1776) is that, if such is the case, then to save someone"s life is also to deride God"s prerogatives."

This is an excellent viewpoint. Either way, God's prerogatives are in jeopardy, so it they cancel each other out. So which way would the life of someone who wanted to commit suicide go: to Heaven or Hell? Is the Church telling us that God would punish you for not wanting to suffer any pain anymore? This is certainly not the God I've heard before.

4. Freedom to do so
If you have a freedom to live, you would probably also have a freedom to die. It's simply logic. If you were suffering extreme pain, physically or mentally, you should have the freedom to stop the suffering. To make it illegal to do so is absurd. People actually go to jail for trying! If you want to end your life, you have a right to do so, as you have a right to live.

These are my main arguments. I will probably throw in one or two more in the Rebuttal round. Good luck Con!
Jerry947

Con

I thank my opponent for creating this debate and I will use this round to give my argument. Rebuttals as requested will be given in the final round. It should be noted that I will be discussing God since my opponent brought him up.

1. First I am going to give two definitions of what the word justified means (https://www.google.com...).

a. having, done for, or marked by a good or legitimate reason.

b. declared or made righteous in the sight of God.

First lets talk about definition a. Something is justified if they have good reasons for the things they do. When talking about suicide, no person really has a good reason for wanting to kill themselves. Our society has for example determined that being bullied is not a valid excuse for them murdering themselves. And since our society has deemed suicide as unlawful, it is not justified.

Now lets talk about definition b. God who is the creator of everything and therefore can do whatever he wants decided to create humans. He made them in his image and therefore it is a sin to commit suicide. In other words, suicide is not something that is justified by God. In the book of Job, Job ignores his wife's advice to kill himself even though he suffered the insufferable. He would not insult God and himself by doing such a dreadful dead. And he ended up being rewarded for his faith in God.

2. A person's suicide causes many more problems. Family members will be heart broken and may become depressed. Why put this emotional strain on other people? Also, a person's suicide might end up costing you money. Apparently "the annual cost of workforce-related suicides has been calculated to be approximately $13 billion in 2005 dollars" (http://www.valueoptions.com...). Why should people have to pay money just because someone took their life? That isn't right.

3. Most people when they commit suicide regret it in their dying moment (https://www.google.com...). We should not allow people to do something when they are going to regret their decision in the future.
Debate Round No. 2
yomama12

Pro

I thank my opponent for actually debating.

Rebuttals:

" no person really has a good reason for wanting to kill themselves. Our society has for example determined that being bullied is not a valid excuse for them murdering themselves."

While they did say this, there are still other reasons why someone would like to take their own life. It could be of personal loss, of crippling debt, and so on.

"And since our society has deemed suicide as unlawful, it is not justified."

If the person wants to do it, they should have the freedom to do it. The First Amendment of the United States says that you have freedom of speech, whether it be audible or body language. Killing ones self would be body language, LANGUAGE. It would be considered a form of speech, and therefore is protected by The First Amendment. (https://www.law.cornell.edu...)

" God who is the creator of everything and therefore can do whatever he wants decided to create humans. He made them in his image and therefore it is a sin to commit suicide. In other words, suicide is not something that is justified by God. In the book of Job, Job ignores his wife's advice to kill himself even though he suffered the insufferable. He would not insult God and himself by doing such a dreadful dead. And he ended up being rewarded for his faith in God."

While it says it is a sin to do so, lets take another look at the quote from the first round.

"The counterargument, by philosopher David Hume (1711-1776) is that, if such is the case, then to save someone"s life is also to deride God"s prerogatives."

I will also use a statement I made in the first round:

Is the Church telling us that God would punish you for not wanting to suffer any pain anymore?

"Family members will be heart broken and may become depressed. Why put this emotional strain on other people?"

What if the reason they want to kill themselves is that their family turned their back on them, or they have no family? These can certainly mean that no one would care what happened to them.

"Why should people have to pay money just because someone took their life? That isn't right."

Is that a way to talk about someone who's ending their life long struggle with emotional/physical pain?

"Most people when they commit suicide regret it in their dying moment (https://www.google.com......). We should not allow people to do something when they are going to regret their decision in the future."

What about the people that do? Even if it is an impulse, they still do it. It's their choice.

I thank you again for dong this debate with me. I await your rebuttals.
Jerry947

Con

"While they did say this, there are still other reasons why someone would like to take their own life. It could be of personal loss, of crippling debt, and so on."

I understand that people have problems. We all do. But murdering ourselves isn't the way to deal with those problems. People should get help by either seeing professional help, talking to their family members, and by talking to God. Religion has been known to keep people happy (http://www.huffingtonpost.com...).

"If the person wants to do it, they should have the freedom to do it. The First Amendment of the United States says that you have freedom of speech, whether it be audible or body language."

The first amendment gives people freedom of speech but says nothing about the right to murder ourselves. The thing about body language is completely absurd and I don't know how anyone could infer that from the first amendment. Your link didn't even support that claim.

"The counterargument, by philosopher David Hume (1711-1776) is that, if such is the case, then to save someone"s life is also to deride God's prerogatives."

The statement makes no sense at all. God is not given rights (or prerogatives). God is already completely free to do whatever he wants since he created everything. Saving someones life would be fulfilling God's command to love our neighbors as ourselves instead of letting them murder themselves.

"Is the Church telling us that God would punish you for not wanting to suffer any pain anymore?"

God wouldn't punish us for having the desire to not suffer anymore but he would punish people for committing murder. By the way, God also promises an eternity in paradise for those who choose to follow him which will make any amount of suffering on earth look like nothing.

"What if the reason they want to kill themselves is that their family turned their back on them, or they have no family? These can certainly mean that no one would care what happened to them."

Well, that is a different case. But I was referring to the people that did have family members. That said, no one should commit suicide because it is against the law, God says not to do it, and because it does have an affect on some person eventually since it will cost someone money.

"Is that a way to talk about someone who's ending their life long struggle with emotional/physical pain?"

Says the person who just wants them to murder themselves instead of dealing with their problems. Hey, if you don't care about them enough to help them with their issues then I don't see why it is a big deal to mention that suicides cost people lots of money.

"What about the people that do? Even if it is an impulse, they still do it. It's their choice."

Who says they have the right to make that choice? God and the constitution doesn't give people to right to murder themselves. People have the ability to murder themselves but they do not have the right to do this horrible deed.

Had fun with this debate. My other debates sometimes drag on too long but this one was nice and short.
Debate Round No. 3
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by whiteflame 1 year ago
whiteflame
*******************************************************************
>Reported vote: DankMan// Mod action: Removed<

7 points to Pro. Reasons for voting decision: its there choice

[*Reason for removal*] Not an RFD. Just a statement of the voter's opinion.
************************************************************************
Posted by matt8800 1 year ago
matt8800
I think in some cases, assisted suicide is a more humane option. Pro lost me though when he brought up bullying, poverty, etc. Suicide is a permanent solution that should only be reserved for a permanent problem that makes life unbearable until life comes to an end.
Posted by Hayd 1 year ago
Hayd
Half way done with my RFD
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Hayd 1 year ago
Hayd
yomama12Jerry947Tied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Clear win for Con. I am a part of the Voter's Union, if you have an unvoted debate, submit it to Donald Keller, Whiteflame, or Midnight to ensure it gets voted on by one of our members. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1IS1D0TFfJupDxRgbrS0nt8kHSdh340XxWyKfP4L8QAo/edit?usp=sharing