The Instigator
Sigmund_Freud
Pro (for)
The Contender
PowerPikachu21
Con (against)

Super Mario Brothers 2 is A Masterpiece.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/16/2016 Category: Religion
Updated: 6 months ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 164 times Debate No: 94779
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (4)
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Sigmund_Freud

Pro

Ever since the beginning of time, man has been asking one question: "Who am I? What is my purpose in life? Why a human, why not a fox? Will Half-Life 3 ever come out?". It wasn't until the year 1988 when all these questions were answered. It was none else than Shigeru Miyamoto and Koji Kondo who, after years of studying and living the ascetic life, came up with a response so perfect, so fitting, that it even challenges the genius of books like The Gulag Archipelago and the Gospel of Peter.
The game was so perfect that it has won Game of the Year 28 times, beating classics such as Knack and NintenDogs.
Not only that, but the gameplay mechanics are the most revolutionary to have been devised by any mortal, making researchers wonder if these men were indeed mortals. Moreover, the mechanics are still revolutionizing games such as Call of Duty: Modern Advanced Infinity Warfare.

Many have taken the task of writing an account of these things that have happened to us. I will attempt to tell you these things that you may believe, my dear Theophilus.

As you know, Super Mario Bros. 2 is a metaphor regarding life. Every level is a theater stage, representing the existentialist question it is trying to answer. This represents what it is that we humans wonder every day of our lives "why am I here?". At the end of every level, the stage starts to fade away, representing the after-life. Mario, knowing that his life is only a play, which is momentary, leaps in the air to grab his reward. Clearly representing that after life there is a reward for the hard job in the 'level'. Yes, I understand that this is very hard to process, yet it is the truth, and I must preach it.

-Love, me.
PowerPikachu21

Con

I think the debate topic should rather be "Philosophy", rather than "Religion". Whatever. Let's get into rebuttals against why Mario Bros 2 isn't a masterpiece. But first, some definitions.

Masterpiece: "a work of outstanding artistry, skill, or workmanship." https://www.google.com...

Super Mario Bros 2: A game made by Nintendo as the sequel to the popular Super Mario Bros. http://www.mariowiki.com...

And now for the Cross Examination.

Rebuttal:

Opening:

"Ever since the beginning of time, man has been asking one question: "Who am I? What is my purpose in life? Why a human, why not a fox? Will Half-Life 3 ever come out?" " That was 4 questions. Anyways... I am PowerPikachu25, you are Sigmund_Freud. We choose our own purpose in life. As for why we are our species... ask God. And Half Life 3 isn't coming out, as far as I'm concerned.

"It wasn't until the year 1988 when all these questions were answered. It was none else than Shigeru Miyamoto and Koji Kondo who, after years of studying and living the ascetic life, came up with a response so perfect, so fitting, that it even challenges the genius of books like The Gulag Archipelago and the Gospel of Peter." So Mario Bros 2 was supposed to be philosophical? This is an absurd claim, and must be backed up. I'm pretty sure it was meant to be a platformer, nothing much more.

Mechanics are revolutionary? Well, they were never used again. Wo Game of the Year 28 Times? I doubt that. So many other games came out after 1989, like Halo, Call of Duty, Mega Man X, Xenoblde Chronicles, Final Fantasy... yet a really old game got all the awards? I doubt that. Bring me a source that states otherwise.

So back to SMB2 answering philosophical questions...

Mario the Socrates:

"As you know, Super Mario Bros. 2 is a metaphor regarding life." No, it's a platformer. If it is indeed some metaphor, it's purely coindicential.

"Every level is a theater stage, representing the existentialist question it is trying to answer. This represents what it is that we humans wonder every day of our lives "why am I here?". " So I'm in the mortal realm to play video games? Only gamers would say that. Atheletes in the Olympics live to compete, and train in order to win at physical activities. Also, how is SMB2 a theater? You might be confusing it with SMB3, which does take place as a play.

"At the end of every level, the stage starts to fade away, representing the after-life." Back this up. And I think, once again, you're confusing SMB2 with SMB3. So what you're saying is that Mario dies after every stage, and gets resurrected at the beginning of every stage? Then why not say that for many other games that fade to something?

"Mario, knowing that his life is only a play, which is momentary, leaps in the air to grab his reward." Mario's life isn't a play (Well, I guess in Super Mario Maker, it's all a play). But Mario's an actual character with a real life, and isn't Socrates or Plato or anything.

"Clearly representing that after life there is a reward for the hard job in the 'level'." Yeah, and I suppose Sonic the Hedgehog's also dying because he's fast, and life goes by fast, yet every Zone has a reward for life. (Sarcasm)

And that's it. I'll start my argument now.

Argument:

Point 1; Confusion.

The Burden of Proof is to show that Super Mario Bros 2 is a masterpiece. But Pro's talking about Super Mario Bros 3, which isn't the same thing. I think he's confused, though. Even if it says "SMB3 is a Masterpiece", he'd still have to show that it was intended to be philosophical, and not just a platformer.

Point 2: SMB2's Origins.

According to the Mario wiki, the game is based on Yume K!3;j!3;: Doki Doki Panic, with similar controls and mechanics. So something can't really be outstanding art if the idea came from another game.

Point 3: SMB3's other objects.

If completing a level equals death, what does losing a life mean?

What does Bowser mean? What does Princess Peach mean? Luigi's also present in SMB3, so what does he mean?

What does the Raccoon Suit mean? The Super Mushroom? When Mario gets hit by an enemy, he loses his power. Does that mean anything?

If SMB3 is philosophical, then nearly everything would have a philosophical meaning, not just a play and the level ending. Especially the losing a life part, and the other characters.

Point 4: Other games.

Sure you can't beat the classics, but what about newer games that became popular? To state some examples, Bayonetta, Final Fantasy, Xenoblade Chronicles, Pac-Man, Sonic the Hedgehog (Not Sonic Boom.), Smash Bros, Kirby... All the games! How is a game from over 20 years ago better than newer games that have better mechanics, good music, sharper graphics, and story? What? You like Sonic better than Kirby? You like Metroid over Xenoblade Chronicles? Okay, everyone has their own opinion. Some people like some things better than other things.

Conclusion:

We can either talk about how SMB2 is a masterpiece, or go on about how Bowser capturing Peach is a metaphor for life's struggles. Or we can talk about how Mario's better than Xenoblade, or Kirby: Triple Deluxe. So how do you want this to go down, Pro?
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Debate Round No. 3
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by Sigmund_Freud 5 months ago
Sigmund_Freud
Sure thing, mate. Congrats on winning on the most useless debate ever instigated. I honestly thought my tone was obvious enough to let everybody know I was joking. Super Mario Bros 2 winning game of the year since the year of its conception, c'mon mate, if that's not a dead giveaway I don't know what is. I was genuinely surprised that you took me seriously. Great rebuttals though, I'll give you that.
Posted by PowerPikachu21 5 months ago
PowerPikachu21
Well, I technically already "win", since he left the site.
Posted by BackCommander 6 months ago
BackCommander
"Yume K!3;j!3;: Doki Doki Panic, a Family Computer Disk System game meant to tie-in with Fuji Television's media technology expo, called Yume K!3;j!3; (lit. Dream Factory). The characters, enemies, and themes of the game were meant to reflect the mascots and theme of the festival. [2] After Nintendo of America found the Japanese Super Mario Bros. 2 too difficult and similar to its predecessor, Yume K!3;j!3;: Doki Doki Panic was improved upon and converted back into a Super Mario Bros. sequel for release outside Japan.[3]:2"

Not based on it Con, it's just a reskin of a would be game. It's like slapping colorful stickers on an apple because you know your teenage nephew can't even comprehend a Rubik's cube. You're on the path to winning for sure.
Posted by malalo75 6 months ago
malalo75
Whatever Pro's smoking, I want some.
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