The Instigator
Longline
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Craighawley215
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Superman's power is not infinite.

Do you like this debate?NoYes+1
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 0 votes the winner is...
It's a Tie!
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/5/2015 Category: Movies
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,089 times Debate No: 79398
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (1)
Votes (0)

 

Longline

Pro

this debate is being done again after the last challenger forfeited.

Craighawley215 is the new challenger, as this is directly for him to accept.
Craighawley215

Con

I accept the debate and will be arguing that Superman's power is indeed infinite.

Out of courtesy for my opponent, I will allow them to post their full argument before posting my own.
Debate Round No. 1
Longline

Pro

No before i start i want to clear some things first. i do like superman, so i'm not superman hater. however i like to understand things, and want things in a good reasonable understanding way.
i have come across the topic that superman have infinite power. from many you tube videos and also during my own research on superman.

i don't agree. and some things do not add up. let me explain. if you Google superman's ability you will have all of his abilities. including what he can and cannot do. here are the list.
these are taking from "https://en.wikipedia.org...;

1.Superhuman Solar Energy
Superman's powers rely on his cells' ability to absorb and metabolize solar energy from yellow stars like Earth's sun. His Kryptonian body is a living "solar battery" that absorbs solar energies and converts them to fuel for his powers. His cells also store yellow sun energy so he can use his powers under objects, at night, in dark places, and in space.

2.Solar Flare and Heat Vision
Ability to emit solar energy from his eyes

3.Solar Invulnerability
Immunity to almost all forms of harm and ailments, including extreme force and extremely high temperatures.

4.Solar Gravimetric Field (Flight)
Because Earth exhibits less gravitational pull than that of Krypton, and also due to his solar-powered body, the Man of Steel can also alter his personal mono-directional gravity field to propel himself through the air at will.

5.Superhuman Strength and Endurance.
6.Superhuman Speed and Reflexes
7.Superhuman Intelligence
8.Superhuman Breath
8.Superhuman Senses

So that is the the man of steel. Now lets talk. notice how the most important abilities he has started with Solar? Solar Energy,Solar Flare and Heat Vision,Solar Invulnerability, and Solar Gravimetric Field. if you take out that solar we will not have a superman. the radiation that comes from the sun, superman does not control it. he just happen to be very lucky that his body does the work for him.
so how did i come up with the conclusion that he does not have infinite power? well as you already know. his power rely on the sun. very heavily on the sun. now when he became superman prime he had to stay inside of the sun for 1000 years. to become superman prime. in a youtube video, sorry i don't have to link here. but you can find it very easy. the host said that Batmen told superman. that if he use all of the radiation in his body, he will return to being a normal human being. for 24hours, meaning all the charge he got will all be gone. and it will take him 24 hours to recharge. so lets reason on this a little more.

1. superman's power will only be Infinite if he can absorbed all the stars in All the Galaxy.
2. He can.t why. it took him 1000 years inside the sun, and he didn't even absorbed 50% of the sun, the sun was still the same.
3. let's say that he is able to absorbed the entire sun. well if it takes him 1000 years to become superman prime and the sun is still untouched. just how much longer will it take him if he could to absorb all the stars in all the galaxy. i'm thinking infinite years, because we know that space is infinite.

And another point i want put out. reason number two why superman powers is not infinite. his power is coming from the sun. if he manage to absorbed all the stars he will still not have infinite power.
the only why he can have infinite power is if he is able to generate the source of his power. which he can't

so as long as we he rely on the sun, he cant't have infinite power.

reason three. his body needs to recharge. his body can run out of radiation and he needs to recharge. so just like a rechargeable battery. it cannot hold infinite amount of charge. why because it needs to be recharge. if something needs to be replenish, that means that thing can run out. so even if he get a hug amount of charge it will run out eventually, it's just a matter of time.
Craighawley215

Con

I will be arguing that Superman's power is indeed infinite, and will attempt to base my stance on the official DC Canon.
I will address Pro's points one by one.

"1.Superhuman Solar Energy
Superman's powers rely on his cells' ability to absorb and metabolize solar energy from yellow stars like Earth's sun. His Kryptonian body is a living "solar battery" that absorbs solar energies and converts them to fuel for his powers. His cells also store yellow sun energy so he can use his powers under objects, at night, in dark places, and in space."
Correct. Superman absorbs solar energy from suns, or more accurately, stars. Blue stars are the most effective, and will supercharge Superman. Red stars are the only type of star that Superman cannot absorb energy from. What this means is that Superman's power is only limited by star exposure. In order for his power to reach a finite point, you must eliminate all solar energy from his reach.

2.Solar Flare and Heat Vision
Heat vision and solar flare are two very different abilities. His solar flare is essentially a resort of using his body as a bomb. This expends all of the solar energy in his body, but then he is fully capable of regaining that energy after waiting 24 hours. His heat vision is the quickest drain on his solar energy, and will eventually drain him, but this energy is completely renewable.

"So that is the the man of steel. Now lets talk. notice how the most important abilities he has started with Solar? Solar Energy,Solar Flare and Heat Vision,Solar Invulnerability, and Solar Gravimetric Field. if you take out that solar we will not have a superman. the radiation that comes from the sun, superman does not control it. he just happen to be very lucky that his body does the work for him."
So then you are saying that if it weren't for the solar part, we wouldn't have Superman. That is fair, but that's also just the way superheros work. They usually can't control what gives them their powers. Peter Parker didn't control the radioactive spider that bit him. Barry Allen didn't intentionally get struck by lightning. Without the Lantern and the Ring, there would be no Green Lantern corps. Superman doesn't control the sun, but he controls the way his body uses that solar energy. Learning how to utilize his body's reaction to sunlight is a large part of the character development, as he struggles to learn how to control his powers.

"so how did i come up with the conclusion that he does not have infinite power? well as you already know. his power rely on the sun. very heavily on the sun. now when he became superman prime he had to stay inside of the sun for 1000 years. to become superman prime. in a youtube video, sorry i don't have to link here. but you can find it very easy. the host said that Batmen told superman. that if he use all of the radiation in his body, he will return to being a normal human being. for 24hours, meaning all the charge he got will all be gone. and it will take him 24 hours to recharge. so lets reason on this a little more."
I think you have a misstep here. What you are referring to is the solar flare. It expends all of his solar energy and basically detonates like a solar bomb. It takes Superman the next 24 hours to regain enough solar energy to use his powers again. His power relies on the sun, but he doesn't have to be actually in the sun in order to gain solar energy. Think of it as laying on the beach, but instead of getting more tan, Superman gets stronger.

"1. superman's power will only be Infinite if he can absorbed all the stars in All the Galaxy."
You are incorrect in your theory. Superman's solar energy is absorbed, not leeched from the star. The energy that Superman absorbs is not draining the star in any way. He doesn't consume stars, he absorbs the energy that they are putting out already. Superman's solar absorption doesn't affect the star in any way.

"2. He can.t why. it took him 1000 years inside the sun, and he didn't even absorbed 50% of the sun, the sun was still the same."
Once again, this is because he isn't actually draining any energy from the stars. He is merely absorbing the energy that they already put out. He "bathes" in solar energy, as opposed to consuming it.

"3. let's say that he is able to absorbed the entire sun. well if it takes him 1000 years to become superman prime and the sun is still untouched. just how much longer will it take him if he could to absorb all the stars in all the galaxy. i'm thinking infinite years, because we know that space is infinite."
He doesn't need to absorb all the stars in the galaxy, because the stars are not a finite source of energy. Solar energy is constantly being generated by the stars, and all Superman does is absorb it. No matter how much energy Superman absorbs from a star, the star does not lose any solar energy.

"And another point i want put out. reason number two why superman powers is not infinite. his power is coming from the sun. if he manage to absorbed all the stars he will still not have infinite power.
the only why he can have infinite power is if he is able to generate the source of his power. which he can't

so as long as we he rely on the sun, he cant't have infinite power."
Again, the sun/stars are not a finite resource. Superman will never run out of energy from yellow, white, or blue stars. They generate his power, he only channels it. It's almost the exact same concept as the Green Lantern. The lantern generates the energy, and the ring stores/channels it for use.

"reason three. his body needs to recharge. his body can run out of radiation and he needs to recharge. so just like a rechargeable battery. it cannot hold infinite amount of charge. why because it needs to be recharge. if something needs to be replenish, that means that thing can run out. so even if he get a hug amount of charge it will run out eventually, it's just a matter of time."
His body theoretically can run out of solar energy for a temporary period, but this rarely happens, and being exposed to a yellow, white, or blue star almost instantly recharges him.

Here's the main crux of the argument:
You claim that superman works as a solar battery, so I will continue that metaphor. Superman is a solar battery; a rechargeable battery that has no maximum charge limit, and will absorb as much energy as you can generate. Now, if Superman is the battery, then the stars work like massive turbine generators. Charging the battery doesn't drain any power from these generators. Those generators are an infinite source of energy. Since these infinite generators are the source of Superman's power, we can conclude that the source of Superman's power is infinite, so his powers may be infinite. In fact, if you never expose Superman to darkness or kryptonite, his powers explicitly would be infinite.

So in conclusion, Superman's maximum power level is infinite. His power source is infinite. The only way that you can argue Superman having finite power is by removing him from his power sources, in which case, you would make the same argument for practically every other hero with superpowers coming from one specific source.

I anxiously await your 3rd round rebuttal!
Debate Round No. 2
Longline

Pro

OK. i agree that the sun will not run out since superman is not really absorbing it. but only that of the radiation being generated by the sun.

This still prove problem for superman. you mention that most superhero don't control what give them their powers. you are wrong here.

when i said superman does not control the source of his power, this is a big thing. and you help conform that. now let me explain. a green lantern can literally carry there ring charger everywhere they go. they have infinite supple of power in any dimension they go. because this charge is link to the mean source of there power.

Barry Allen was able to replicate the effect of the lighting that give him has power. he and batmen did this. so he knows that whenever he lose his power he can generate what give him his power. which is getting hit by a lighting.

and finally you mention Peter Parker. yes he did not control the spider that bit him. but he knows the spider that bit him. if he was to lose his powers its reasonable to say he can such for this spider again. these hero's have a means to regain control over their source of power. superman's power is being generated by an external factor. meaning even tho he rely on this, any other hero can manipulate it from his body. a radiation is not that hard to control, as we human have found many ways to control this unique property from the sun.

"It takes Superman the next 24 hours to regain enough solar energy to use his powers again. His power relies on the sun, but he doesn't have to be actually in the sun in order to gain solar energy. Think of it as laying on the beach, but instead of getting more tan, Superman gets stronger."

this is why i said having control of your power source is very important. And this is also one major reason why superman CANNOT have infinite power.
i get that he does not have be inside the sun to gain solar energy. but when he is not inside of the sun, the amount of solar energy he gets is very limited. also when he is engage in battle he use more solar energy, as his body is fighting to recharge it is also using more energy then it can recharge.

he Have infinite amount of solar energy AVAILABLE to use. BUT HE CAN'T GATHER THAT INFINITE ENERGY TO STORE INSIDE OF HIM.

THE SOLAR ENERGY IS INFINITE EXTERNALLY NOT INSIDE OF HIM. like we humans have infinite amount of vitamin D available to us from the sun. but we can only tape in to what our body is available to take in.

"You claim that superman works as a solar battery, so I will continue that metaphor. Superman is a solar battery; a rechargeable battery that has no maximum charge limit, and will absorb as much energy as you can generate."

OK so his body has no maximum charge limit. but that is only because in order to find out his max limit we will have to Waite a infinite amount of years. remember his body does not charge that fast. and the only way he can reach his maximum limit is by having a long nap inside the sun for infinite amount of years. Because the second he leave that sun, his power will start to slowly drain, since his body does not hold the charge in him forever.

"Those generators are an infinite source of energy. Since these infinite generators are the source of Superman's power, we can conclude that the source of Superman's power is infinite"

the Generator are an infinite source of energy, yes. but superman does not have this source of energy inside of him yet. Remember he can only use the SOLAR ENERGY INSIDE OF HIM. these solar energy are indeed infinite and just all around, but they are only useful to superman after his body convert it for his benefit.

"so his powers may be infinite." WRONG THE SOURCE OF HIS POWER IS INFINITE, BUT THE POWER CONTAIN INSIDE OF SUPERMAN HAVE TO BE GAIN THEN CONVERTED BEFORE USE.

"In fact, if you never expose Superman to darkness or kryptonite, his powers explicitly would be infinite."
WRONG AGAIN. remember his body does not hold charge forever. meaning for every second his body convert solar energy inside of him, it is depleting over time.
Craighawley215

Con

"when i said superman does not control the source of his power, this is a big thing. and you help conform that. now let me explain. a green lantern can literally carry there ring charger everywhere they go. they have infinite supple of power in any dimension they go. because this charge is link to the mean source of there power."
Superman can literally absorb energy from any star in any dimension, except for red stars. The Green Lanterns often don't carry their lanterns with them, because they are forced to keep their lantern hidden and safe. Superman literally just has to be within a few lightyears of a star in order to absorb energy from them. He arguably has more access to the stars than many Lanterns have to their lanterns.

"Barry Allen was able to replicate the effect of the lighting that give him has power. he and batmen did this. so he knows that whenever he lose his power he can generate what give him his power. which is getting hit by a lighting."
Do you mean like the storyline from the Flash Point Paradox? Here it is: https://www.youtube.com....
Number one, I didn't realize that was DC Canon. Number 2, that is not generating anything. They don't control or generate the lightning, they only harness it, and Barry Allen "ABSORBS" it. This is no different from Superman absorbing solar energy. Literally the only difference is that Superman's body is capable of absorbing energy without needing Batman to rig up a science experiment.

"and finally you mention Peter Parker. yes he did not control the spider that bit him. but he knows the spider that bit him. if he was to lose his powers its reasonable to say he can such for this spider again. these hero's have a means to regain control over their source of power. superman's power is being generated by an external factor. meaning even tho he rely on this, any other hero can manipulate it from his body. a radiation is not that hard to control, as we human have found many ways to control this unique property from the sun."
You have a very clear double standard here. The radioactive spider is far more of an external factor than the stars. Even though Superman relies on an external factor, it is arguably the most abundant external source in the universe. If Spiderman loses his powers, then Peter Parker is forced to try and find one, very specific, scientifically altered spider, and get that spider to bite him. If Superman loses his powers, then literally all he has to do is wait 24 hours and spend some time simply in the vicinity of a star. But I'm curious what you mean by "any other hero can manipulate it from his body." We cannot control the stars; we can barely control radiation.

"It takes Superman the next 24 hours to regain enough solar energy to use his powers again. His power relies on the sun, but he doesn't have to be actually in the sun in order to gain solar energy. Think of it as laying on the beach, but instead of getting more tan, Superman gets stronger."

"this is why i said having control of your power source is very important. And this is also one major reason why superman CANNOT have infinite power.
i get that he does not have be inside the sun to gain solar energy. but when he is not inside of the sun, the amount of solar energy he gets is very limited. also when he is engage in battle he use more solar energy, as his body is fighting to recharge it is also using more energy then it can recharge."
This isn't really as much of an issue as you seem to think it is. Superman has only lived inside of the sun on a few rare occasions. Most of his power is absorbed just by being on Earth, in close proximity to our yellow sun. He's only used the solar flare a couple of times, and heat vision is the power that drains his energy quickest. But in most cases, he can absorb energy at roughly the same rate he expends it. The only times where this is not the case are when he is exposed to kryptonite or other specific circumstances.

"he Have infinite amount of solar energy AVAILABLE to use. BUT HE CAN'T GATHER THAT INFINITE ENERGY TO STORE INSIDE OF HIM."
Superman doesn't need to gather infinite energy inside of him. He is capable of simultaneously fighting and absorbing solar energy. If he has access to an infinite power source, then he has infinite power. The official comic vine forum explicitly says that "his power has no limits." http://www.comicvine.com...
Furthermore, the official Superman website at http://www.dccomics.com... says that "Superman is as strong as he needs to be."

"THE SOLAR ENERGY IS INFINITE EXTERNALLY NOT INSIDE OF HIM. like we humans have infinite amount of vitamin D available to us from the sun. but we can only tape in to what our body is available to take in."
Superman can absorb and expend solar energy at an instantaneous rate. It's not like he has to wait for his system to digest solar energy. His body channels solar energy like a direct current.

"You claim that superman works as a solar battery, so I will continue that metaphor. Superman is a solar battery; a rechargeable battery that has no maximum charge limit, and will absorb as much energy as you can generate."

"OK so his body has no maximum charge limit. but that is only because in order to find out his max limit we will have to Waite a infinite amount of years. remember his body does not charge that fast."
You seem to not understand what you are arguing. You agree that he has no maximum charge, and then try to suggest that he does. And then you suggest that his charging rate is slow, but as I said, his energy absorption rate is instantaneous. It's not like he must stop whatever he is doing to recharge. He can live, fight, and fly while simultaneously absorbing energy.

"and the only way he can reach his maximum limit is by having a long nap inside the sun for infinite amount of years."
You already agreed that he has no charge limit, so this point has no validity.

"Because the second he leave that sun, his power will start to slowly drain, since his body does not hold the charge in him forever."
Again, he doesn't need to be inside of a star to absorb that energy. His power will not start draining as soon as he leaves the star. In order for you to drain Superman's solar energy, he would have to be surrounded by total darkness, and out of reach of any star whatsoever.

"Those generators are an infinite source of energy. Since these infinite generators are the source of Superman's power, we can conclude that the source of Superman's power is infinite"

"the Generator are an infinite source of energy, yes. but superman does not have this source of energy inside of him yet. Remember he can only use the SOLAR ENERGY INSIDE OF HIM. these solar energy are indeed infinite and just all around, but they are only useful to superman after his body convert it for his benefit."
Again, his absorption rate is instantaneous.

"so his powers may be infinite." WRONG THE SOURCE OF HIS POWER IS INFINITE, BUT THE POWER CONTAIN INSIDE OF SUPERMAN HAVE TO BE GAIN THEN CONVERTED BEFORE USE."

"In fact, if you never expose Superman to darkness or kryptonite, his powers explicitly would be infinite."
"WRONG AGAIN. remember his body does not hold charge forever. meaning for every second his body convert solar energy inside of him, it is depleting over time."
Not true. The only time his power is depleting is when exposed to kryptonite, a red star, or total darkness.

Your entire argument is based on your incorrect assumptions about the way Superman's power works. I responded to your arguments, and you then responded with double standards, misconceptions, and zero sources. I would have preferred that this be a 5 round debate, so that we could continue our discussion, but I will accept whatever the voters decide. I hope this debate has been fun and entertaining.

Please vote Con.
Debate Round No. 3
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by Longline 2 years ago
Longline
you still did not prove that superman has infinite power. it does not matter how fast he can recharge.

here is a clear example: IF I HAVE A WIRE, THIS WIRE CAN CONDUCT ELECTRICITY AT A VERY HIGH RATE. IT DOES NOT MATTER HOW FAST THIS WIRE CAN CONDUCT THAT ELECTRICITY.

MY POINT IS, THERE WILL NEVER BE A TIME WHERE THAT WIRE WILL CONTAIN INFINITE AMOUNT OF ELECTRICITY.

my second point you failed to prove false. i'm going to use the wire for this one. Because the wire, or superman being the conductor. in superman's case a conductor of radioactive energy. That wire Can't have infinite amount of Electricity, if it does then it's no longer a wire. if superman body can hold in the radiation then his body will lose the ability to recharge. he will never need to recharge ever again. But that can't be the case for his body.

his body is design as a conductor of radioactive energy. his body will never hold a infinite amount of radioactive energy. ever.
No votes have been placed for this debate.