The Instigator
eLkathebaloon
Pro (for)
Winning
4 Points
The Contender
Teemo
Con (against)
Losing
2 Points

Sword Art Online was a horrible show

Do you like this debate?NoYes+0
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
eLkathebaloon
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/16/2014 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,959 times Debate No: 56697
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (5)
Votes (1)

 

eLkathebaloon

Pro

This debate is about an anime called "Sword Art Online". In Con position you will be defending the show from the criticism. Although all arguments are welcome, please refrain if you can from completely subjective opinions like: "I had fun with it" because it doesn't prove the quality of the show.

First round is for accepting,.
Teemo

Con

I accept.
Debate Round No. 1
eLkathebaloon

Pro

Thank you very much con for accepting my challenge, I look forward for an interesting debate. So what in my opinion is wrong with the show?

First off, the characters are bland and unappealing. Asuna and Kirito are basically boring Mary Sue's. Their relations, dialogues with their friends and enemies come off as... bland and sometimes even awkward. They definitely tried to make Kirito a cool character, somewhat of a MMO gamer badass that is popular around girls. But well, the problem is, as he has no real interesting traits, putting him in cool situations just won't work out. He just comes as overpowered. Asuna is just bland. The side characters are really undeveloped and the way they handled the girl characters, was again, boring.

Second, the pacing was absolutely horrible. The action was jumping from place to place like a kangaroo on steroids, and the action got really confusing really fast. I even had to check if I didn't miss any episodes.

Third, the focus of the show was not right. Instead of really focusing on truly interesting thing in this setting, living trapped in a MMO and seeing how the game mechanics change the lives of people playing, they focused on action, wasting a really interesting idea.

Fourth, the show was cheesy and full of silly dialogue. This wouldn't be bad if show had actually intended to do this, because there are shows that actually included cheesiness on purpose. But SAO takes itself way to seriously, and doesn't benefit from it's silly moments.

Fifth, Kirito having a harem was just unnecessary and really threw me off. That guy had really nothing special to him and for some reason, every girl in the show loves him.

Sixth, the romance between Kirito and Asuna was horribly forced. As they don't really have much character, they don't really have chemistry between them. There is nothing interesting about their love.

Seventh, the second season was horrible. The change of setting completely threw away any sense of danger, the show got even more cheesy, and the villain was boring, uninteresting, annoying and uncomfortable.

I await your response.
Teemo

Con

REFUTATIONS

"First off, the characters are bland and unappealing. Asuna and Kirito are basically boring Mary Sue's. Their relations, dialogues with their friends and enemies come off as... bland and sometimes even awkward. They definitely tried to make Kirito a cool character, somewhat of a MMO gamer badass that is popular around girls. But well, the problem is, as he has no real interesting traits, putting him in cool situations just won't work out. He just comes as overpowered. Asuna is just bland. The side characters are really undeveloped and the way they handled the girl characters, was again, boring."

To begin with, I would like to point out all of this is subjective, and even with such an opinion false. Because of such, you are unable to factually prove that these things are true, and so your points are invalid. Anyway, I shall counter. The characters are actually quite appealing, and dialog is quite amazing. Kirito is a normal kid who learns to become better and a hero in a video game. Asuna is quite a rich teenager who likes to play video games as well. The point is that they are average, however in this world they can do thing they never could in the real one, and they are much different. Also, kirito is not over powered. As you can see, he was unable to finish that boss under the town of beggining without yui deleting the monster. Asuna is meant to be bland, because Kirito changes her through their relationship. And honestly, how is this unapealing?



"Second, the pacing was absolutely horrible. The action was jumping from place to place like a kangaroo on steroids, and the action got really confusing really fast. I even had to check if I didn't miss any episodes."

You just aren't otaku enough to understand. It is actually quite simple. The pacing was normal, like in many other animes such as "no game no life" and "attack on titan". He weant through a few adventures, and such is normal.

"Third, the focus of the show was not right. Instead of really focusing on truly interesting thing in this setting, living trapped in a MMO and seeing how the game mechanics change the lives of people playing, they focused on action, wasting a really interesting idea."

That's just like saying fairy tail should be more about the world they live in then the characters themselves. The focus can be on anything, and in this case it was on Asuna and Kirito. If anything, the focus was perfect, because quite a lot of people enjoy the Asuna/Kirito ship which brings in more viewers. And this idea you like is actually being included in GGO, the sequel of SAO.

"Fourth, the show was cheesy and full of silly dialogue. This wouldn't be bad if show had actually intended to do this, because there are shows that actually included cheesiness on purpose. But SAO takes itself way to seriously, and doesn't benefit from it's silly moments."

Are you kidding me? Their dialogue is amazing, and deep, not cheesy.

"Levels are just numbers. In this world, strength is just an illusion. — Kazuto Kirigaya"

"I'd rather trust and regret than doubt and regret. — Kazuto Kirigaya" [1]

The quotes well relate SAO to the real world as well.

"Fifth, Kirito having a harem was just unnecessary and really threw me off. That guy had really nothing special to him and for some reason, every girl in the show loves him."

Yeah, because finishing a video game that can kill you by yourself is totally not special. He helped these girls, and saved their lives, he deserves a harem.

"Sixth, the romance between Kirito and Asuna was horribly forced. As they don't really have much character, they don't really have chemistry between them. There is nothing interesting about their love."

2 people stuck in a video game who met eachother at first and some how met again and eventually earned a child that was actually a secret program imbedded in the software is very interesting! Also, it wasn't forced. There was chemistry from the start, when Kirito offered her food.

"Seventh, the second season was horrible. The change of setting completely threw away any sense of danger, the show got even more cheesy, and the villain was boring, uninteresting, annoying and uncomfortable."

The second season focused on him saving the girl he loves while having family issues, and trying to make it up to his family. There wasn't meant to be danger, because the 2nd season is focused on Kirito trying to fix everything. The villain was a man who made a video game just to take over peoples mind, and he raped a girl. This isn't boring at all.

=========================

Not only are all of your arguments opiniated, but all your opinions are false.

==========================

SAO is proven to be an amazing show, due to it's extremely high ratings. According to IMDB, a just website to which they weigh the votes in order to only use fair detailed reviews, SAO has a stunning 8.4! [2] Furthermore, they are also making the next season, GGO. If the anime was trule terrible, the ratings would be under 5.0, and they wouldn't have enough ratings to make another season. This itself factually proves that SAO was not a horrible anime.

The anime also has various, various fans. So many people cosplay as SAO characters compared to other animes. This itself proves people like it, and so it cannot be a horrible anime if the majority of viewers enjoy it.

In conclusion, SAO is factually an amazing show, definitly not horrible. All your arguments were opiniated, and your opinions were false.

Sources:

1.http://hummingbird.me...
2.http://www.imdb.com...



Debate Round No. 2
eLkathebaloon

Pro

I'm really sorry about my opinionated arguments before, that was a simple mistake that I'll try to correct right now. I'm well aware that my "arguments" were just simple claims which seemed opinionated but it was because the circumstances in which I was writing them. Now I'll try to back them up.

What I meant by characters being bland and boring, I meant, from a storytelling standpoint, they just weren't good characters. What do we really know about Kirito? I can't really name a character trait to describe him, besides bland. Only thing we know about him that he is pretty determined, is knowledgeable of video games and loves Asuna. What are his weaknesses, fears, actual traits we can't really say. Where was a point in anime where he showed some dominant trait? We can't say that being "normal" gives him any sort of character. People aren't normal, people are interesting, with unique traits, fears and dreams for every of them. Kirito isn't really much of a character than more of a person that does stuff. What are his bad traits? What are his good traits? We can't really say. And that's a big problem when we talk about making characters. Also, character development and being influenced by an other character is not an excuse for making a character bland. A character can change while being deep, well built and interesting.

Excuse me, but I watched both No Game No life and Attack On Titan and can say that both of those shows have really good, or at least sufficient pacing. Why? Because the action doesn't skip randomly every two episodes. Sword Art Online has horrible, and I mean horrible pacing. First Kirito fights a boss, then we suddenly see him join a guild when he is far far more powerful. Then suddenly, we see him arguing with Asuna, how did they meet again? We don't really know! Such way of pacing the show is just confusing and not very good.

Third, what I meant was, SAO in the first episodes seemed to target something more than simple love/action story. It established an interesting setting with an interesting idea that seemed would eventually grow into something bigger. Then it just completely wasted it, focusing on completely different subject that they at first went out with. SAO drew the viewers in with it's idea and setting, and then just changed the focus all of sudden.

Fourth, SAO has a lot of silly moments in it, taking the subject matter at hand you can't avoid it. Taking something that is basically a video game really seriously is hard to pull off. But if in the first season the dialogue has only some silly moments so I let it pass, but the second season... oh boy. With all the tension of death in a video game removed, you can't really treat characters treating a video game so seriously serious. Crying over a player who suffers only death penalty, with no pain (because as we know from the show, the players don't suffer pain in virtual reality MMO ) is really cheesy.

Fifth, what I again meant, was that a really bland character, with no interesting traits having a harem comes out as silly and unnecessary to the story itself. The harem stories could just as good not be in here, actually it would be better if instead of showing love-stories with new girls they focused more on the setting, story and used the resources that they used on that, on fixing the pacing. As it is now it serves as a really uninteresting filler.

Sixth, as though the experiences they come across are indeed pretty original and interesting, the relation between them just isn't. A romance is based mostly on interesting characters and relations between them. How they come across different troubles, issues and problems that they face together, sharing their experiences, problems, worries and also dreams, having disagreements with each other which come from their differences in character, evolving and changing thanks to their relationship, trying to keep it alive however they can. But if the characters are bland, the whole story just falls through. And while the experiences they come across may be interesting, their relationship most definitely isn't.

Seventh, the complete change of tone and setting removed all the tension from the show. We have a wonderful setting, a group of people is trapped in a deadly MMO that kills the people when they die in game. We have far more interesting, and mysterious villain and we suddenly change it all, removing the core idea from the show, making the characters suddenly not need to worry about their lives and the old villain, for a new one who is completely cartoonishly evil . This is a huge awkward tonal shift and from a storytelling standpoint has really no sense. The villain has nothing interesting about him in sense of character. He is just an evil pervert that no viewer can really like, or at least think of him as a cool character. He has completely no good traits and really does completely nothing. There were of course, completely evil characters with no redeemable traits done well, but they had an original idea behind them that made them stand out, their motivations, the way that they done things were interesting. The villain of the second show really isn't like that.

Again really sorry for arguments being opinionated but I was just stupid for making arguments very late when I don't think properly.

Anyways, high rating of a show doesn't necessarily make it good. Good reviews also don't make a show necessarily good. Let's remember that both the viewers and reviewers are still humans with different opinions who see things differently. And if asked if so many people really can be wrong? Yes they can. Democracy has proved many times that the most, isn't always right.

There are many works of fiction that have large numbers of fans and still are bashed by the critics and considered among the worst things that have been ever created (example "Twilight").

Last thing I want to say, just to make it clear, I don't hate SAO and actually enjoyed it a lot, but still consider it a bad show despite of that.

Back to you con.
Teemo

Con

Teemo forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
eLkathebaloon

Pro

Well I'll just wait for Con.
Teemo

Con

Teemo forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
eLkathebaloon

Pro

eLkathebaloon forfeited this round.
Teemo

Con

Teemo forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by 9spaceking 2 years ago
9spaceking
teemo is loafing around! What's going on?
Posted by eLkathebaloon 2 years ago
eLkathebaloon
Sorry for that, but I think I should have worded my arguments better. It just didn't work out as it was supposed to be. I'll try to explain it better next round using actual facts and analyzing the characters. They have parts of opinion in them, of course, we are discussing quality of the show so this is unavoidable. Right now I just counted the ways that I think the anime did wrong, but as I said worded them wrong and just didn't do it right. Again I'm really sorry for this and I see my mistake here, I'll try to use better arguments in the future.
Posted by aiuk119 2 years ago
aiuk119
I find the pro side to be severely biased. You're using only opinions from yourself and no solid facts to back your info. Sword Art Online received an 8.7 from TV.com and IMDd gave it an 8.4. This anime series was meant to be about action and romance, the harem idea only pissed you off because of your own personal disinterest. And the romance with Asuna was something most of the viewers asked for since she was introduced first and many people enjoyed watching her character develop throughout the series. The characters were all unique with very interesting backgrounds. Many of your statements have no facts or solid evidence to back them up. If you really want to convince me then show me some proof instead of posting your arguments of personal issues with the series. It's your *opinion* so keep it to yourself.
Posted by 9spaceking 2 years ago
9spaceking
prediction: once again, Teemo, the noob killer, will kill this noob
Posted by 9spaceking 2 years ago
9spaceking
@ pro you should use sources when you can.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Blade-of-Truth 2 years ago
Blade-of-Truth
eLkathebaloonTeemoTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:42 
Reasons for voting decision: Conduct - Pro. Although both debaters ended up forfeiting in the final round, one cannot ignore the additional forfeits committed by Con. A word of advice to Pro, just because your opponent forfeits a few rounds doesn't mean you should as well. Forfeiting is rarely acceptable behavior in any debate setting. For future reference, simply typing "extend arguments" would be more appropriate and spare you from possible conduct point reductions. Arguments - Pro. Although I've already taken points from Con for the forfeits, it is also clear that Con failed at providing any form of rebuttals towards Pro. If Pro hadn't provided his own in R3, this would have been Con's. But because Pro rebutted every point raised by Con and was then left unanswered, he wins arguments. Sources - Con. Pro failed at utilizing sources throughout this debate whereas Con shared sources which further strengthened his contentions. For this, Con wins sources. Good Debate. Awesome show.