The Instigator
UtherPenguin
Pro (for)
Winning
5 Points
The Contender
Kryptic
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

THBT humans are not experiencing (nor under threat of) overpopulation

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
UtherPenguin
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/14/2015 Category: People
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,582 times Debate No: 75499
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (26)
Votes (2)

 

UtherPenguin

Pro

Debate Impossible to accept.

Read the rules and comment if you want to join debate. I do not plan to open this debate until at least 3 days later.
Failure to abide by the format or terms of the debate will result in a loss of conduct during voting stage. If Con finds the terms to be unreasonable or inaccurate then he or she may alter the terms, but only with an argument as to why.

Burden of Proof is on both sides.

Terms:
Overpopulation: Overpopulation is a function of the number of individuals compared to the relevant resources, such as the water and essential nutrients they need to survive. It can result from an increase in births, a decline in mortality rates, an increase in immigration, or an unsustainable biome and depletion of resources.

Danger: The possibility of trouble, danger, or ruin.

Format:

Round 1: Acceptance of the terms

Round 2: Opening argumenta

Round 3: Rebuttals

Round 4: Counter-rebuttals/Closing arguments,

Once more to clarify: I will be arguing that human overpopulation is not happening nor is under threat of happening, Con is to argue otherwise.
Debate Round No. 1
UtherPenguin

Pro

I would like to thank Con for accepting the terms and rules of the debate. I shall begin with my opening arguments.

Fertility Rate

In order for a society, or culture to persist, the population would be required to replace itself with another generation of people. The ideal amount of children usually required for a stable population would be one child per person. That way, it would create an equilibrium between the population of the working generation and the population of the passing generation. However, since women are the only sex capable of bearing children. With that in mind, it would be required for each family to have 2 children, one replacing the father and the other replacing the mother.
The fertility rate is a measure of the average amount of children a woman may have in a society. The fertility rate shows whether a population is growing or shrinking.
The graph below shows the past, current and speculated fertility rates of China, India Europe and the US (Each of which are among the most densely populated regions in the world respectively)

As seen in the graph above, most of these regions have a dropping fertility rate currently, and about " of these countries are speculated to have their fertility rates drop below.
This is fails to take into account the mortality of each of the respective regions, a country with higher child mortality rates (such as India) would then need to increase the average amount of children in order for them to sustain their population.



Resources

A major component of a species" overpopulation is not only the actual increase in the population, but also the decrease in sustainable resources. A population is at risk of overpopulation when the resources required for sustainment are dwarfed by the species" fertility rate.
During the Stone Ages, the average person required at least a square mile of land in order to sustain himself and/or his family. With the advent of agriculture, the average land required substantially decreased as agriculture allowed more food to be produced with less land required.
With the domestication of animals shortly after agriculture, even less land was required for the average person to sustain themselves as hunting and gathering became obsolete.
During this time, it was then possible for densely populated cities to exist (thus came early civilizations such as Sumer and Babylon)
As agricultural technologies advance, more food can be grown on less land. Hence, more food becomes available. This is important because the absence or decline of resources is an inevitable side effect of overpopulation.
The World Food Programme (WFP) has even gone as far to say
"There is enough food in the world today for everyone to have the nourishment necessary for a healthy and productive life."
With modern agriculture, it is possible to grow crops in land that would have been deemed not arable even a few years previously.
The resources required to sustain the population does not outweigh the world"s overall fertility rate. As mentioned in the first argument, the world fertility rate is actually dropping and not rising, unlike the increase in world resources.
Therefore, the human population is not at risk of overpopulation.
Sources:
1. https://www.youtube.com...
2. http://data.worldbank.org...
3. https://en.wikipedia.org...
4. http://pop.org...
5. https://www.youtube.com...
6. https://overpopulationisamyth.com...
Kryptic

Con

Kryptic forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
UtherPenguin

Pro

My arguments extend. If Pro is present for in round 3 then i request him to do his rebuttals alongside his opening argument in order to make up for this round.
Kryptic

Con



First of all, I would like to sincerely apologise for my lack of attendance thus far, I have been busy, to be honest, I was astonished to even complete this round.



I have 4 main points to share and will also add my rebuttal and summary.





Opening.



THBT humans are not experiencing (nor under threat of) overpopulation



I am Con (Against)



Thesis:



Humans are experiencing and are under threat of overpopulation.





Topic 1.



Climate Change.



My first point is on Climate change. Water levels are rising due to an influx of greenhouse gases that were influenced by mankind as a result of this, coastal lines are being raised and it’s impacting coastal living conditions. Due to there being a large amount of housing and farming near sea level, this will implicate a lot of living arrangements. Unfortunately we will have a smaller area to inhabit, with this sudden restriction, who knows the kind of implications this will cause, especially in the transportation of ships. Another issue Climate Change brings is the heating of oceans. Topic 3 will get into more detail with this.





Topic 2.



Pollution and Consumption.



Pollution is damaging crops; this creates a problem with consumption rates, inevitably, people will need more crops to sustain themselves. People are also becoming increasingly overweight, studies show that since the 1980’s, obesity rates have tripled and are continuing in children within western cultures, this is due to increased junk food as well as sugars and oils, and processed foods. Essentially, we are overpopulating our planet with people with a burden of gluttony that is never satisfied with food which will only partially quench the bodies’ intake of essential vitamins and nutrients. The way we are headed, the only way out is no food. The other problem facing Earth is that food is becoming cheaper than ever before; with this rate, food is easily accessible with people buying much more than is necessary. Today’s western cultures are literally throwing food away, although it could be worse, they could be throwing it into the bin… instead they’re putting it into a vat known as a stomach that will only lead to needing even more, I am not disputing the need to eat, however obesity is no counter measure. Over population is occurring, the population is expected to rise to 9 billion by 2050. Food is becoming less resilient because of pesticides and more people are going hungry in 3rd world countries.



However, a lot of the countries encompassing Europe is attempting to help out 3rd world countries in need, so far they have reduced the hunger problem by 10%; unfortunately though, 550 billion litres of fresh water is wasted per year in agriculture. We are setting ourselves up for an overpopulated world that’s lacking nutrients.





Topic 3.



Ecosystems and filters.



Animals are going extinct at an incredibly fast rate; some scientists refer to us as the ‘sixth mass extinction’. A total number of known species that have directly gone extinct through human efforts has been 905, most occurring during the 1900’s, a great time of ignorance several different plants have also gone extinct. At this rate, we are going to kill off a large population of our ecosystems, throwing the life cycle out of balance and creating large imbalances that will end up destroying whatever system is in place at the moment. Coral bleaching becomes a problem when over fishing takes place; the starfish that kill the coral will be abundant in the near future due to reefs being emptier as well as the effects of Climate Change. Coral tends to live in an average depth that doesn’t change much in temperature, with these rising and hotter waters, Coral is just going to become extinct. Deforestation is yet another problem we are facing, with a terrible amount of forest being destroyed each year, we are running out of natural filters and habitat for animals to flourish in. With the lack of natural filters in place, there is no normal way to combat the effects of Climate Change, this will lead in a faster route of imbalance within ecosystems, completely wiping most food off the map.





Topic 4.



Overpopulation on a smaller scale.



The last topic I want to bring up is that overpopulation can be city wide or country wide, we can have a lot of people in a single area and the rest of the world could be lush and free, what really determines overpopulation? Is it the global crisis that everyone is in danger of death due to the limitations of the earth? Or is it the limitations of the community in general? I could give examples of china and japan having overpopulation problems, and simply use the smog as an example, people wearing surgical masks in public to avoid the consumption of toxic chemicals, people wearing long clothes so they are not intoxicated by the gases. The acid rain and dying out of populations of animals. We have the panda bear as an example of this.





Rebuttal.



An issue I have with your graph is, we are still growing in population, regardless of how many children people are having in today’s generation, simply because the world is growing shows the graph to be intellectually dishonest in terms of accuracy with population sizes. The truth is, we have so many people that if every woman was to give birth to only one child, we would probably see an increase in population before it dropped off.





Summary.



In summary so far, we have established the resources are depleting, that climate change is an issue that is currently affecting us and will continue to only with greater affects in the near future. We have also established that mankind’s destruction on the reefs with overfishing is leading to an increased death rate of corals by the imbalance of the ecosystem allowing species classed as pests to roam freely and corrupt the environment, this will also cause a massive death rate of phytoplankton, which is most of our oxygen resource. The other issue mankind faces is deforestation, the process of burning, cutting or poisoning trees which is destroying some of the last remaining habitat for our now ever receding amount of species. And finally, we have also established the sea levels rising and human population growing, as well as a lack of nutrients in the food supply and currently an overeating epidemic in western countries.





Final statements.



Unfortunately, due to the lack of time I had to write up this argument, and being incredibly tired, I did not have time to reference properly, however, the sources are in order from topic 1 through to topic 4. I would like to class myself as an intellectually honest person; feel free to go through them, if you have any issues, please address it and I will adhere to it. Thank you.



~Kryptic.





Sources.



http://link.springer.com...


http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov...


http://search.proquest.com.elibrary.jcu.edu.au...


http://www.cabdirect.org...


http://authoritynutrition.com...


http://www.endangeredspeciesinternational.org...


http://environment.nationalgeographic.com.au...


https://uosm2018.wordpress.com...


http://www.edu.pe.ca...


http://www.codewit.com...


http://www.bbc.com...


http://science.howstuffworks.com...


http://www.gbrmpa.gov.au...


http://overfishing.org...



Debate Round No. 3
UtherPenguin

Pro

Rebuttals.

"Topic 1: Climate Change"

This argument is irrelevant, as it still fails to prove whether overpopulation is the cause of Climate change.

"Topic 2: Pollution and Consumption"

"However, a lot of the countries encompassing Europe is attempting to help out 3rd world countries in need, so far they have reduced the hunger problem by 10%; unfortunately though, 550 billion litres of fresh water is wasted per year in agriculture. We are setting ourselves up for an overpopulated world that"s lacking nutrients."

Much of what is said is a reuslt of overconsupmtion , not necessarily overpopulation.

"Topic 4: Overpopulation on a smaller sclae"

"The last topic I want to bring up is that overpopulation can be city wide or country wide, we can have a lot of people in a single area and the rest of the world could be lush and free, what really determines overpopulation? Is it the global crisis that everyone is in danger of death due to the limitations of the earth? Or is it the limitations of the community in general? I could give examples of china and japan having overpopulation problems, and simply use the smog as an example, people wearing surgical masks in public to avoid the consumption of toxic chemicals, people wearing long clothes so they are not intoxicated by the gases. The acid rain and dying out of populations of animals. We have the panda bear as an example of this."

Japan is actually facing a risk of underpopulation. Due to Japan's extremely low fertility rate, the retiring population vastly outnumbers the working population. Europe and North America would also have been facing the same problem had it not been for immigration. China's fertility rate is also noticeably low and is still dropping, meaning that the population will likely dip in later years.

The main reason why China is far more polluted has very little to do with population and more to do with industry. China in the past few decades has seen radical industrial development, when Britain was experiencing the Industrial Revolution, they were experiencing similar pollution problems as modern China.

Once more, this argument is irrelevant in proving overpopulation as you have stated previously that those events were the result of pollution .

"Rebuttal"

"An issue I have with your graph is, we are still growing in population, regardless of how many children people are having in today"s generation, simply because the world is growing shows the graph to be intellectually dishonest in terms of accuracy with population sizes. The truth is, we have so many people that if every woman was to give birth to only one child, we would probably see an increase in population before it dropped off."

The graphs shows how the population is growing, the fertility rate also shows how the population may grow or decline in later years. Whether or not a country has a high population, if the fertility rate is too low, then the population will decline.

Conclusion:

Due to the dropping fertility rate of many countries, and the less land that is required to grow more food. It therefore shows that humans are not experiencing nor under threat of overpopulation.

I thank Con for an interesting debate.
Kryptic

Con

I apologise, i am currently moving and have no time to conclude. I do appreciate the possibility to debate you and i hope we can do it another time when i am not buisy.

Much respect.

~Kryptic
Debate Round No. 4
26 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by UtherPenguin 1 year ago
UtherPenguin
@greatkitteh If you don't give an RFD, they're gonna remove that vote.
Posted by UtherPenguin 1 year ago
UtherPenguin
Okay that's enough bumps
Posted by UtherPenguin 1 year ago
UtherPenguin
BUMD #1 (nac)
Posted by UtherPenguin 1 year ago
UtherPenguin
BUMD#1 (nac)
Posted by UtherPenguin 1 year ago
UtherPenguin
Well technically it would be "BUMD" Meaning "bring up my debate" instead of "bring up my post
Posted by UtherPenguin 1 year ago
UtherPenguin
Will this debate get featured if I get enough comments? I'll try bumping.
Posted by UtherPenguin 1 year ago
UtherPenguin
@Greatkitteh I believe I just did 0_o
Posted by greatkitteh 1 year ago
greatkitteh
wiw Uther . .Did you just make a serius Argument?
Posted by UtherPenguin 1 year ago
UtherPenguin
Sure
Posted by Kryptic 1 year ago
Kryptic
I will post my opening argument and response to your position, however, I you would like to (after this debate is over) create another debate with 5 rounds , I would be happy to do so.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by greatkitteh 1 year ago
greatkitteh
UtherPenguinKrypticTied
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Total points awarded:40 
Reasons for voting decision: Forgeit, And concession!
Vote Placed by Midnight1131 1 year ago
Midnight1131
UtherPenguinKrypticTied
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Total points awarded:10 
Reasons for voting decision: FF by Con.