The Instigator
XsamacadoX
Pro (for)
Losing
12 Points
The Contender
Cooperman88
Con (against)
Winning
39 Points

THE CHRISTIAN GOD DOES NOT EXIST/THE BIBLE IS A LIE -You choose one.

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Started: 3/31/2008 Category: Religion
Updated: 6 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,230 times Debate No: 3455
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (17)
Votes (17)

 

XsamacadoX

Pro

This is a commonly used argument, the argument of Free Will. In the bible God is described as a Omnipotent, all knowing, all seeing, being with free will. If he had free will, God would be able to make decisions. To make desicions you have to be able to select one of two or more options in a situation, in which none are inevitable. If God knows all, then he would know his own decisions, thus making his desecion inevitable. Therefore he does not have free will, as he can not make choices. If for some reason he did change his mind, then he would not have known what he was going to do, thus he does not know everything. So from that I can conclude that he does not exist. Of course this is not perfectly true, as you could say that he is not all knowing or he does not have free will. But then the basis of two of the three major theisms in the world would be a complete lie. This whole argument is just one section of my debate. The overall thing is to disprove the existence of God (or rather, almost completely disprove his existence.).

It's going to be an interesting debate...
Cooperman88

Con

I would first like to say that if I didn't care about this topic, then I would debate the latter part because you don't say anything about it. But I do care about this topic as I am an avid Christian. So I wil debate the first topic that the Christian God doesn not exist.

First I make the urge to ask voters not to vote on what their own personal beliefs are. I have voted against my own convictions here, and I ask you to do the same if this situation warrants. Not only that, but throw aside your preconcieved notions of what is true. Don't look to see what you already believe true, instead hold yourself to a completely unbiased standard.

I also would like to take the time now to ask people to stop posting arguments below because that isn't the place for it. If you want to debate this person then challenge them.

Now for your arguments about free will. You say that the Christian God is all knowing, all powerful, all present, etc. I say this is true, and I believe this. Then you say that if this were true, then He couldn't possibly have free will. This isn't true. Free will according to the American Heritage Dictionary is:
1. The ability or discretion to choose; free choice
2. The power of making free choices that are unconstrained by external circumstances or by an agency such as fate or divine will.
This means that in order for God to have free will, He had/has to have the ability to make choices that are unaffected by other influences. Let's look first to the creation story presented in Genesis. "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." The choice here is to create or not to create. God chose to create, and there obviously weren't any external influences since nothing had been created. This is very hard to understand, but that's not what this debate is about.

Now for your next argument. You say that since God knows everything He should know what He is going to do, so He can't have free will. But knowing something does not mean that it influences your choice in a matter. Since free will is defined as a choice made without external influences, then knowing is not what is determining the choice. Not only that, this is where it gets a little more confusing as well, but you are looking at an all knowing, all powerful God through human eyes. To think that you can understand who God is, is absurd. Another argument here, is that God is all knowing. As you have already said. If God is all knowing, then He will always make the right decision. If you didn't know what the effects of a choice you made were, then it would make your decision harder. But if you did know, then your decision would be easy. The same goes for God. He knows exactly what is going to happen. So the choice is always going to be right.

You then talk about God changing His mind. I would first ask you for an example of where God changed His mind. I put forward the notion that He never has, nor ever will, change His mind. This means that this argument is a moot point as it is not something that is plausible.

Now on your last sentence, not the one where you say it should be an interesting debate, is where I'm going to get nitpicky. You say that the goal is to ALMOST disprove the Christian God. As you are pro, and the one who wrote the resolution, you must prove that the Christian God does not exist. Not just partially, but as a whole.

And for those of you judging, this is a question that has been debated for as long as their has been Christianity. To assume that I or anyone else here is going to prove that the Christian God does/does not exist is absurd. I am asking that if through this debate I show how the Christian God is able to exist, then you vote for me. And if my opponent shows that the Christian God is not able to exist, then you vote for my opponent.

Thank you very much for this great topic. I am eagerly awaiting your response. You shouldn't have to wait too long for my responses as I am currently laid up with a broken leg. It should in fact be an interesting debate.
Debate Round No. 1
XsamacadoX

Pro

XsamacadoX forfeited this round.
Cooperman88

Con

Darn, I was really hoping he would continue this debate. But I'm sure has a reason, and I ask that no one hold this against him when voting.
Debate Round No. 2
XsamacadoX

Pro

XsamacadoX forfeited this round.
Cooperman88

Con

Well, it doesn't look like my opponent is going to respond. If anyone would like to debate me on this, then challenge me and I will take them on.
Debate Round No. 3
XsamacadoX

Pro

XsamacadoX forfeited this round.
Cooperman88

Con

well, my opponent already forfeited this match, so vote for me. I'm sorry that it didn't get to finish. maybe he will challenge me.
Debate Round No. 4
XsamacadoX

Pro

Okay. My internet was changed to FiOs. Whilst it now is far faster, it took forever to finish installing it (lazy bums at comcast) on my house, and they cut a wire while digging around (idiots). I finally got my internet back, but of course there is not much time left to finish my debate. I will continue as best I can. Just to finish it up, here is my reply to your round 1 argument.

Don't take apart the arguments, they are all one big happy fat argument. God can not exist as he does in the bible, as he can not be all knowing and have free will at the same time. If he does still exist, the bible would be an even huger lie. So like in the title, either God most likely does not exist or the scripture for two religion is false.

Sorry for taking so long. I might rechallenge you again, but I'm fairly busy right now. Please vote on the argument not your beleif (although I'm sure no christian will vote for me)
Cooperman88

Con

Cooperman88 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
17 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by SexyLatina 5 years ago
SexyLatina
Well, geez, XsamacadoX, if you're so smart why didn't you just install it yourself in five minutes! I mean, if you keep so up-to-date on technology and all...

Anyways, you're saying that people should vote for you, after you conceded. That's just silly, isn't it?

But you don't know anything, so I wouldn't expect you to follow what I just said.
Posted by XsamacadoX 6 years ago
XsamacadoX
i honestly think my argument was far better. but most of you vote on beleifs not debates.
Posted by Geekis_Khan 6 years ago
Geekis_Khan
Whether his Round 5 argument was insufficient or not is irrelevant. His Round 1 argument went unanswered because CON's Round 1 argument was insufficient.

Just saying.
Posted by Logical-Master 6 years ago
Logical-Master
PRO's round 5 response is insufficient. I vote CON.
Posted by Spiral 6 years ago
Spiral
Ephesians states that God has a predertermined knowledge of who goes into heaven or not. :P No free will there.
Posted by XsamacadoX 6 years ago
XsamacadoX
they actually have a spell check for comments?! this would have been useful to know before.
Posted by Geekis_Khan 6 years ago
Geekis_Khan
I meant "Slaughterhouse-Five". I should've used spellcheck.
Posted by Geekis_Khan 6 years ago
Geekis_Khan
I'm voting PRO. Here's why:

The CON gave very good justification for God, however, it was completely unrelated to the PRO's argument. If God knows what decision he is going to make (NOTE: Knows it. Not thinks that he might do it like humans do.), then the decision is inevitable. Since that is inevitable, then God doesn't have free will (and indeed, no one does). This line of htinking went ignored by the CON.

The non-linear time argument works against it if you know how to argue it right (think of how time is presented in "Slaugherhouse Five"), but since the CON never made this argument, I'm voting PRO.
Posted by XsamacadoX 6 years ago
XsamacadoX
ill re-do the debate later.
Posted by PublicForumG-d 6 years ago
PublicForumG-d
Pro's round five reason sucks as far as a voting reason anyway. He completely ignores the omnipotent view of G-d that Christians have anyway.

As in, G-d doesn't view time on a linear level. He knows whats gonna happen without having to influence it in any way.
17 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 11 through 17 records.
Vote Placed by Darth_Grievous_42 6 years ago
Darth_Grievous_42
XsamacadoXCooperman88Tied
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Vote Placed by brian_eggleston 6 years ago
brian_eggleston
XsamacadoXCooperman88Tied
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Vote Placed by Spiral 6 years ago
Spiral
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Vote Placed by Logical-Master 6 years ago
Logical-Master
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Vote Placed by Danielle 6 years ago
Danielle
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Vote Placed by Bitz 6 years ago
Bitz
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Vote Placed by griffinisright 6 years ago
griffinisright
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