The Instigator
italia4356
Pro (for)
Losing
62 Points
The Contender
james94
Con (against)
Winning
64 Points

Taking the word GOD out of all things pertaining to government e.g. "pledge of alligence" dollar bil

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/7/2007 Category: Religion
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 10,440 times Debate No: 52
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (161)
Votes (39)

 

italia4356

Pro

there should not be any mentioning of the word god when it comes to government. this is not one nation under god becaue i do not believe in god yet i am apart of this nation that i was born in. i herd that originally there was never any mentioning of god and that it was placed into our currency and our pledge of alliegence by some religious people, though i have no proof for that claim nor the desire right now to look it up but it sound right to me. wheather some people like it or not not everybody believe in god and they shouldnt be biased against for it. if you believe in god and dont want to accept my beliefs that is fine but a religious person has no more right to be here than i so they should not have their gods plastered all over my money and my pledge of alligence. I pledge alligence to the United States of America not to ur gods. i treat religious people fair so people who dont believe in god should be treated egual as well.
james94

Con

I here by find that the word god should be placed on the dollar bill and in the schools and the Pledge of Allegience as a tool of learning I think that children now days do not learn who he really is except in the church and Bible.

I find that most American people when asked if they believe in God they say yes. They believe that we are One Nation Under God.We are also equal as men and women.We are all God's children.
Debate Round No. 1
italia4356

Pro

Well you may think "that children now days do not learn who he really is except in the church and Bible" but I might think that children don't really learn who they are unless they pray to a Banana. That is your opinion.It is your right to have your opinion as it is my right to have mine so why should your opinion be on public money and public national anthems. You may believe this is one nation under god but I do not. So why should your opinion count more then mine when we are both American. I am not asking to put "one nation under atheism". If you believe in god that is perfectly fine with me but it is not fine that there should be your god all over my money, that is saying your opinion counts more then mine yet we are both Americans and in that case that is bias and discriminatory. You can do what ever you want, build as many churches as you want, pray as much as you want, it is perfectly ok with me but it is not ok when your opinions are plastered on my money, or the pledge of allegiance to my country or have to swear on your bible to whether or not I am telling the truth in a court of law. This is not the the united states of christians. There is supposed to be separation of church and state our founders understood this and it should be reimplemented.
james94

Con

Italia ,you still have not proven why we should take the word god out of everything pertaining to the government,and the dollar bill.Our founders have proven that we have the freedom of speech ,freedom of religion and freedom of government,also freedom of the press.If we were a communist country we would not have these freedoms.

I am not trying to be discriminative when I say that we should keep god on our dollar bill I am simply stating the fact that we are all equal in gods eyes.

You made a complaint that your opinion does not count as much as mine does , that is not true,because in America every opinion counts as equal.We as Americans have the freedom to do as we please within reason. This brings me to my next thought.

We are One Nation Under God ,which means that god is watching over us as humans.
Debate Round No. 2
italia4356

Pro

Yea but, James I don't believe in god brother. God whether you want to admit it or not is an opinion that is why you need faith to believe in it. Your opinion is all over my money. The dollar bill might as well say on it "atheists are stupid". James, what if the dollar bill said one nation under Atheism? Would that bother you? The only reason your not bothered is because the opinion is in you favor. Do you see my point? I am an American just like you are an American yet your beliefs trump mine and I don't think that is right.
james94

Con

Italia ,after careful thought it was brought to my attention that you have not been successful in backing up your statements as to why we should not put the word god on the dollar bill or in the government .That being said, Whether or not you are Atheist this has no bearing on whether or not to put the word god on things pertaining to the dollar bill or the government. Our constitution,was well documented by christian men who I spoke about in the previous round of this debate, about our freedoms.Whether you believe in god has no bearing on this debate .

You might read your history book about the constitution of the United States ,it will enlighten you to the fact that we should keep the word god on the dollar bill and everything pertaining to the government. Again I restate the fact that we are One Nation Under God.
Debate Round No. 3
italia4356

Pro

Well tell me this James, why "should" we put the word god on the dollar bill or in government?

"Whether you believe in god has no bearing on this debate".(james) James, in order for me to say the pledge of allegiance to my country from which I was born I have to pledge allegiance to your god. How does me not believing in god have any bearing on this debate?

Since we are all equal, and as you said we are all free, would you object to me asking congress to change the current pledge of allegiance from "one nation under god" to something like "one nation under Atheism"?

You have no more right to be here then I, so the fair thing to do would be to change motos such as "one nation under god" and "in god we trust" because those statements are not true for every person. Our founding fathers had no mentioning of creating a christian government in the constitution. They only spoke of religious freedom for which I am completely for. I found an interesting quote about one of the founding fathers and religion, " When Benjamin Franklin proposed during the Constitutional Convention that the founders begin each day of their labors with a prayer to God for guidance, his suggestion was defeated.(We are not one nation under god, David Greenburg)

I believe it is my responsibility to re establish the foundation from which was established by the founding fathers from which our country arose. Freedom, democracy, equality. When government favors some Americans religious views over another it creates division. We are not the christians of America we are the United States of America. Religion in government does not unite you and I it divides us. Our founding fathers realized that government should take no favor towards religion which is why in the first amendment it reads " "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..." (The First Amendment)
The words "one nation under god" wasn't inserted till 1954. Government should be completely un biased and non supportive of any religion to ensure its place as the calm, neutral center that is there for all Americans not just those who believe in god. Lets be united.

Some History of pledge of allegiance, source from David Greenberg.
I did some reading on the history of the United States motto and the United States pledge of allegiance. It turns out that original pledge of allegiance had no mentioning of god. The pledge of allegiance was written in 1892 by the socialist Francis Bellamy, it went like this, "I pledge allegiance to my flag and the republic for which it stands, one nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all". The words "under god" were added in 1954, more then 160 years after the official ratification of the constitution when Charles Oakan introduced a bill for doing just that.
james94

Con

Since you so lovingly bring up Atheism , let's address the topic. If what you are suggesting is right we have no freedoms at all. We should keep the word god on our dollar bill to remind us that we do have these rights and freedoms.

Atheism is not believing in the one who created and watches over you.On to my next point of view .

The constitution of America was written by our founding fathers one of which was our first president George Washington, and John Adams who were very influential at that time and place. The constitution was written so that people of this country would be free.Which brings me back to my main argument that you still havenot proven beyond a doubt why we should take the word god out of everything pertaining to the government or the dollar bill. Your theory makes me think of a communist or socialist point of view not of a point of view that is of freedom.

Atheism is as you have stated in previous rounds that One Nation Under Atheism,I find is an insult to us as Americans,because we are One Nation Under God. My main recommendation for you would be to open your mind instead of seeing one way.
Debate Round No. 4
italia4356

Pro

this debate suucks! what are you talking about james? Having the word god on the united states currency only says that the united states government supports a particular religion. god on the currency show bias against those who do not believe in god. government is supposed to be completely unbiased and neutral, that is the way it was formed over 160 years ago. the founding fathers new what were the problems of societies and new how to fix them which is why they did such a good job at building a foundation for this country to grow on which allowed United States to become one of the greatest countries in the world. But now 160 or so years later, with more corrupt government then ever, and a Texas aristocracy, the foundation to which our country was grown on is being changed. Our whole country is being turned into a bunch of hill billies by people like Bush.
What i always find ironic is if i said i believe in the boogy man, people would look at me like i'm crazy yet if i said I believe in an invisible man in the sky, and devils, and monsters beneath my feet, not only would i be looked at normal, but i could even use the fact that i believed in the devil monsters and god to aid me in becoming the president. I don't mean to be rude james but for the government to support a particular religion over another is wrong, government supporting a particular religion unconstitutional, and the only reason you support the government in it's decision to support a particular religion is a shameless reason, which is that the government happens to be supporting your religion. Don't you see james if the goverment supported my religious opinions then you would be the one upset and arguing. But since the goverment happens to be supporting your religion you are perfectly fine with it, that is why i say it is shamless. Year 2007 and we are having this debate, wow, what is happening to this country.
james94

Con

In conclusion I still fail to see your logic in taking the word god out of everything pertaining to the governnent and the dollar bill. You being Atheist
has no bearing to why we have the word god on the dollar bill.If it is just a word why should it offend you if it is on the dollar bill and in the government? which brings me to my next thought.

You said that this debate was a waste of time .This debate was very interesting and enlightening.I also feel that we as Americans are not biased to one thing or another .next thought please.

I want to explain myself to you to clarify what I meant when I last spoke about the constitution. WE as Americans should fight for what we think is right ,which is what our founding fathers did by implementing the Bill Of Rights.One of which are the Miranda Rights.

Thank You for this lively debate Italia, because maybe later we can be friends and discuss this topic in more detail.
Debate Round No. 5
161 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by italia4356 9 years ago
italia4356
maybe ur right about this debate james because i do believe in freedom. Maybe if the federal government did away with the law that prevents other banks from issueing their own money. Yea i like that so wait then I think i don't aggree with you. I got it, I think the federal government should not be issueing its own money or if no federal governemnt should stay out and bank from all across the cournty should be able to print their own money they would do this by having their paper money back up by something though I would assume although i could be wrong, no becuase there is a law that say that a person cannot refuse payment if that payment is made by us currency even though it is simply paper. So get rid of that silly law and allow any one to print money. The markets will make the system work. Thats how I feel. Freedom!
Posted by italia4356 9 years ago
italia4356
Ha, thats a little biased there james but no I'm fed up with the whole race i'm for Ron Paul but since it looks like he's not gona make no help from the currupt media and voting rules and what ever else is bad out there, looks like the less of three evils will have to be obama i don't know. I realy dis like all of the vehemitly especially when compared to a true leader like Ron Paul. I just want this currupt war to stop so innocent people can stop dying so that the rich like the people who loan american the money at interest ie the federal reserve can stop exploiting the lives of people for profit. Read about the federal researve. Sure ill check out ur debates
Posted by james94 9 years ago
james94
Italia it must make you happy that a muslim is going to be our new president. Ha I think America is really going to change from George bush.I appreciate your comments but god is a good word and that you should think about it one day.Ps look on my debate on the kkk and nazis you might enjoy james. thankyou.
Posted by italia4356 9 years ago
italia4356
god (no pun intended) you are a bunch of TOOLS! why aren't people voting against this retardation that james and his followers are preaching. I have a dollar bill from my grandmom from 1917 and from 1923, i would like people to know that niether bill has any mention of god anywhere on those bills. NO WHERE TO BE FOUND IS ANY gods ON THE 1917 OR 1923 UNITED STATES CURRENCY. There is something else on the currency which is "payable to the bearer on demand" "one silver dollar", that was when money wasn't just paper it was acutally a rare precious metal, for that time silver. People are just so retarded now they not neccarily by there fault, there has been little educatation i believe on this but currency used to mean something not just be paper. Like todays monopoly money, think about it what the hell does anyone need this paper money for, you can't even wipe ur "butt" (debate.org sucks big balls for profanity rules) with it, toilet paper is better. That is becuase paper money was sopposed to be like a reciept for a precious metal e.g. gold or silver. We no longer use the gold standard now the government uses the bullshit standard and gives people paper for money i.e. inflation. dum dum dum dmmmmm VOTE RON PAUL!!!
Posted by italia4356 9 years ago
italia4356
Well you are the phenomenon james, ha. I think you really are the first person I know of that is religious and doesn't believe in the death penalty so at least their is one good thing about you. Nice job!
Posted by james94 9 years ago
james94
Italia i am not for the death penalty thankyou.
Posted by italia4356 9 years ago
italia4356
ha, i figured you would be in favor of death penalty. There seems to be an ironic correlation with religious people and sentencing people to their death. I'm gona ask james what he think about it too. ill put my money on he believes in it. Maybe if your religion spelled it out that death penalty was wrong then maybe you would be against the death penalty. I'm not trying to be overly malicious but i really do believe that. It's just so ironic that I the so called "evil" atheist does not support killing people yet so many so called "good" religious people seem to be all fore condemning people to death. sigh...
Posted by Tatarize 9 years ago
Tatarize
The universe is exactly as one would expect if there were no God. Natural and consistent laws govern the construction of all of the complexity we see around us.

This isn't a difference of opinion. There is no reason whatsoever to suppose there is a God. Why does making a contrary claim, without evidence, ignoring contrary evidence, require choosing to agree to disagree? You could claim that the Sun is made entirely of oranges and I would argue that it's a massive star composed primarily of hydrogen going through a process of nuclear fusion. You could refuse to budge and claim, just as easily, that "[w]e will not come to an agreement." -- the question one really needs to ask is "What does the evidence suggest?" And, look at that, not one jot of evidence for this God fellow, or for the theory about the sun made of oranges.

I would be happy to change my mind on any subject. I'd just like a little evidence. I've changed my opinion on a number of issues because the evidence just didn't support my previous position. That isn't a closed mind any more than I have a closed mind about gravity. I'm happy to suggest that when dropped something might not fall, however, I would like some evidence for that prior to belief (helium balloons actually rise because the more dense atmosphere falls pushing the balloon upwards, counteracting gravity).

You could suggest I am closed minded with regard to gravity, wanting some evidence to counteract my repeated observations. However, it simply isn't true. Just as if you claim that dropped things DO fall up, doesn't make your position acceptable.

--

Humanism is setup to incorporate a large number of human truths. Schools try to teach children human truths too. That doesn't mean that schools try to teach humanism.

A promotes Y.
B promotes Y.
A promotes B.

No. That's a logical fallacy.
Posted by ladypoet 9 years ago
ladypoet
You refuse to see what is front of your face. I cannot force you to see it. You choose blindness and/or lying to yourself over the truth. You claim that God isn't true, but I claim HE is. We will not come to an agreement over this matter.

You are just as set in your ways and close-minded as you claim I am.

I think I did prove my point about humanism (the self-proclaimed religion) being taught in my schools. I am done with this conversation...which is so far off topic it isn't even funny anymore.

Enjoy your closed mind.
Posted by Tatarize 9 years ago
Tatarize
The ideas underlying humanism are scientific and reasonable. Scientific and reasonable ideas should be taught. However, not humanism itself, just all the tenets of humanism. It seems like a distinction without a difference but, in fact, it's a difference without a distinction.

The universe is self-existing and not created. True.
Man is a part of nature, we are an ape probably within the grouping of chimpanzee. We differ very slightly. This is proper and should be taught. Dualism is complete poppycock. You are your brain. This is hard for your brain to understand but it should. We should very much teach about religion in classes and other cultures and the history which gave rise to them. Modern science does make the supernatural unacceptable as a reason, without the ability to test such claims they should not be made. There isn't any need for theism anymore. Though, I wouldn't teach this in schools. Religious art is still good art, religious literature is still good literature.... even without being true it can still be important.

I mean that humanism as a grouping shouldn't be taught. Nobody should be told that humanism is the way things should be seen. However, all the tenets have merit, in fact they were assembled specifically *BECAUSE* they have merit. If I make a religion and rather than bronze aged myth I base it on solid principles everybody should agree to... you don't get to say those principles are wrong because I've included them in my religion. -- If those principles you listed weren't any good, they wouldn't be part of humanism.

Humanism is composed entirely of human truths. We should teach human truths. We do not need them arranged around a single grouping of humanism. Your freak rant is based solely on misapprehension.
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