The Instigator
RioGrande
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
YakovF
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Taxation Is Theft

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/20/2017 Category: Politics
Updated: 8 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 268 times Debate No: 105181
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (8)
Votes (0)

 

RioGrande

Pro

"Taxation" can be defined as the mandatory funding of government operations by the subjects of said government. "Theft" can be defined as the coercive taking of property belonging to someone other than the person or persons taking said property. Taxation, therefore, fits the definition of theft, as the government is taking money that belongs to its citizens by force.
YakovF

Con

What's considered theft in the country, is up to the country itself, and on a moral stand point. Any country that taxes people obviously doesn't consider themselves to be thieves or else they wouldn't be doing it. On the moral stand point, any FUNCTIONING country/state has to tax people in order to sustain, so it's not like they have a choice. Government has to take money by force whether the people as citizens or the government itself likes it or not.

Thus concluding the my claim Taxation Isn't Theft.

Your turn.
Debate Round No. 1
RioGrande

Pro

I will not accept the premise that theft is defined by what the majority of people in a given geographic area deem it to be. If the majority of people in a given geographic area vote to make 2 + 2 = 5, it does not follow that the equation is sound.

I will not attempt to answer the question of whether a state needs taxation in order to survive, as it is irrelevant to whether taxation is theft. If indeed the state must rely on taxes in order to survive, it is no better than a gang of thieves and should thus be eliminated from society.
YakovF

Con

Let's ask Google

taxation - the levying of tax.
tax - a compulsory contribution to state revenue, levied by the government on workers' income and business profits or added to the cost of some goods, services, and transactions.
compulsory - required by LAW or a rule; obligatory.
theft - the action or crime of stealing.
crime - an action or omission that constitutes an offense that may be prosecuted by the state and is punishable by LAW.
2 + 2 = 4
Seems Google knows what she is talking about. Theft does not equal Taxation

Also, your second paragraph in round 2 indicates that a state doesn't have to rely on taxes to survive, which isn't true. There's a reason why there is a phrase:
There are two things guaranteed in life. Death and TAXES.
That's because NO country or state NO EXCEPTIONS can function without taxing people.

"If indeed the state must rely on taxes in order to survive, it is no better than a gang of thieves and should thus be eliminated from society"
So we should get rid of these countries:
https://en.wikipedia.org...

Generally, people who steal don't need to steal (General case here. we're not talking about exceptions). They can get a job. But states/countries NEED to tax. So this statement:
"I will not attempt to answer the question of whether a state needs taxation in order to survive, as it is irrelevant to whether taxation is theft."
Is false. Because it is relevant to know.
Debate Round No. 2
RioGrande

Pro

As the instigator and "Pro" side of this debate, I set the definition of terms in the opening round. You cannot change them without somehow arguing that my definitions are inaccurate and establishing your alternative definitions as superior.

However, even in your definition, the word "action" is there, followed by the word "or" and then "crime." This indicates that theft is not necessarily a crime, but it could simply be an "action." So even with your definitions, your argument fails.

"Also, your second paragraph in round 2 indicates that a state doesn't have to rely on taxes to survive, which isn't true. "

This is not an argument. Appealing to a common phrase (death and taxes) is also not an argument. This is a debate, not an assertion contest.

Furthermore, whether people who steal need to steal or not has absolutely nothing to do with whether it is stealing. It is absolutely not relevant to the debate at hand. No definition that I or even you cited makes exceptions for theft based on necessity. Either make an argument on the merits of the resolution or concede.
YakovF

Con

My definitions are from google. I trust google. If you automatically choose the definitions (which you don't) you would automatically win. So again, does the definition of Taxation match or even closely line up to the definition of Theft?

Let's ask Google

taxation - the levying of tax.
tax - a compulsory contribution to state revenue, levied by the government on workers' income and business profits or added to the cost of some goods, services, and transactions.
compulsory - required by LAW or a rule; obligatory.
theft - the action or crime of stealing.
crime - an action or omission that constitutes an offense that may be prosecuted by the state and is punishable by LAW.
2 + 2 = 4
Seems Google knows what she is talking about. Theft does not equal Taxation.

action - the fact or process of doing something, typically to achieve an aim.
Debate Round No. 3
8 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Posted by DrCereal 7 months ago
DrCereal
@RioGrande
Taxation=aggression.
Lol, ok.
Posted by PointyDelta 7 months ago
PointyDelta
Rio- I'll take this if you're up for a rematch
Posted by PointyDelta 7 months ago
PointyDelta
lolbertarians lmao
Posted by RioGrande 8 months ago
RioGrande
DrCereal, I understand what the social contract is: it's an imaginary crutch for statists to justify their aggressions.
Posted by DrCereal 8 months ago
DrCereal
I feel like no one understands what the social contract is.
Posted by RioGrande 8 months ago
RioGrande
John, I am not arguing that taxation meets the legal (ie government enforced) definition of theft. I am arguing that it meets the definition of theft as we use the term in everyday language. I set the definition of theft in round 1: " can be defined as the coercive taking of property belonging to someone other than the person or persons taking said property." Con and I are debating on those terms.
Posted by John_C_1812 8 months ago
John_C_1812
Generalizing taxation has Constitutional obstacles. First obstacle is taxation can be described as form of religious donation, and at that point we address separation of convictions by a state of the union to which they are made. Under principle.
Posted by John_C_1812 8 months ago
John_C_1812
taxation is not theft it is a method of impartial payment. Taxation can be challenged by United States Constitution as theft. As theft is a basic principle with legal precedent.
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