The Instigator
MarcusAurelius
Pro (for)
Losing
3 Points
The Contender
TH3Antag0nist
Con (against)
Winning
9 Points

Teachers should not help students with bad grades.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 4 votes the winner is...
TH3Antag0nist
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/29/2014 Category: Education
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 782 times Debate No: 44866
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (0)
Votes (4)

 

MarcusAurelius

Pro

I will be arguing how teachers should not assist students when they are failing school.
Please do not accept the debate for the purpose of trolling. Do not make remarks because of grammatical mistakes and personal insults are not welcome in addition. I thank whoever is willing to debate against someone new to this website. Evidence can be used but with citation.

Round 1 will just be acceptance, while Round 2 are the arguments and Round 3 will be counters.
TH3Antag0nist

Con

Let's do this.
Debate Round No. 1
MarcusAurelius

Pro



To start off, I would like to state that a teacher should help some if there are questions in a specific assignment that were not included in the lecture and such. But if a student basically asks for the teacher to repeat the lesson, I find that unacceptable. I remember having a previous class in the past and the teacher tried to find ways to help the class succeed. She gave numerous online surveys for the class to take for feedback. My class was full of people who were unintelligent and they often socialized instead of doing what they were supposed to be doing, so I assumed they were trying to save their own butts. They still ended up making indecent grades afterwards. You either learn it or you don't. That teacher was a very good teacher and gave concise, well developed lectures that taught the lessons well. Students should be able to pay attention in order to succeed. If one pays attention in class to the lecture, one will do well on assignments, tests, exams, and etc. Self motivation is the true key to success. If a student can not motivate him/herself, no one else will. Only the best will pass, and the others will be proved weak. The teacher's job is said in the job title, to teach. I will not deny that the teacher should help sometimes when there are questions not included in the lecture or assignment, but nothing more than that. You either learn it or you don't. If a student does not understand the concept, that is his/her fault. If they paid close attention to the lecture, there would be troubles at all then. Teachers would know what they are talking about, they are trained to do so, and their lectures are expected to be well developed and concise.

In addition, this can give students a glimpse of life after college and that they will have to support themselves to survive. It supports individuality and lets the students take control of themselves. As for parents, (if the student is in Middle school or High school) they should rather be spectators of the scene and watch. They shouldn't even check the student's homework, let the student find out his/her own mistakes and learn from them. If a student with horrific grades find their mistakes and change their work ethics, they will be able to change everything around and are more likely to have a better future. also shows a good situation of who is likely to succeed in the future and who isn't. I once thank you for accepting this debate and it would be interesting to hear your opinion.


TH3Antag0nist

Con

Opposing Argument: #1 A Teacher's Job
Students are not all equally smart. Some students learn differently than others. While some students learn with hand-on experience others learn from reading a book. The teacher's job is to help the student succeed. A teacher's evaluation is mostly based on student's test averages and school grades. A teacher job is to teach the students. If a student does not learn then the teacher has not done their job.

Opposing Argument #2 Mentally Challenged Students
Are you expecting students who have obvious learning dysfunctions to learn at the same pace as normal students. Almost every school I have been in there has been a mentally challenged students. Every one had a personal aide to guide and teach them. The teachers would take their time to carefully teach them at their own pace.

Opposing Argument #3 Student Attitude
Some students may have a lazy attitude where they do not want to do homework. A teacher then should start to take away their free time. At my high school if you below a 70% then you only got half lunch periods, and you could not leave school campus. During that time whichever class you were failing that teacher would help you. If teachers teach their students good attitude at young ages then it will stick with them through life. It will show them that you can't just give up and not do it. Overall a teacher need to teach consequences.

Conclusion:
A teacher should be there to help the student succeed in life. A teacher is not Boss at a work but more of a trainer for life.
Debate Round No. 2
MarcusAurelius

Pro

Thank you for replying back. Here are my rebuttals for your arguments.

Counter for Argument #1: I believe you are correct on how students learn differently and how all are of different intelligence. But in the beginning of life, it would be logical that everyone has equal intelligence in the beginning. However, everything changes as time progresses and each students' character develops along with work ethics and such. If a student is aware that he/she is getting bad grades and he/she is continuing to get that with awareness, who is to blame for that? I will definitely agree that the teacher's main job is to teach, as it is spoken in the title. They are also trained to teach and they would have lectures that are well developed, concise, and express the main idea. If the student fails to pay attention to such things, that is obviously his/her fault. It is hard to understand how one would not understand that. I will not argue that every student learns differently either but the teacher will cater to that as he/she is aware of that. My point is that if a student fails even if a teacher does all she could to teach and explain the lesson and the student still fails, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. However, if the teacher does not meet those qualities that I listed earlier, the teacher would be gone of course.

Counter for Argument #2: Okay, for my first arguments earlier, I did not include anything about mentally challenged students or students with learning dysfunctions. I don't believe they have the same pace as students as everyone knows. They should be in a different class anyways that are meant specifically for them where they are paired with other individuals that have the same problem, therefore making things much more equal. I apologize for not taking any statement on students with learning dysfunctions earlier.


Counter for Argument #3: I believe those punishments you listed can only solve things temporarily, meaning the years that a student is in that specific school or other schools that have similar practices. As I mentioned before self motivation is key and that is what students should learn earlier. That is why I propose the fact that students should be much more independent by solving his/her own problems. Otherwise, they'll face something bigger in the future. On the part where you say that "a teacher needs to teach consequences", that should be part of their job anyways. Otherwise my concept would not be as what would be planned. I feel like when teachers teach of such consequences, the students don't really feel that "shock" unless they really experience it for themselves, and that is if they hit rock bottom. "

If teachers teach their students good attitude at young ages then it will stick with them through life"

If a student is taught any attitude or ethic, they will most likely stick through it if almost nothing gets in the way. But unfortunately, many things are able to get in the way. Social media is one thing with all the celebrities and such. For example, you are probably aware of how many celebrities (specifically actors, and musicians) gain fame that defy the teachings that hard work, self motivation, and work ethic gets you a Rolls Royce, Rolex, and a mansion. Some students could think that they will be that next celebrity and they don't have to do all that to be successful. Another example can be how a lot of mainstream music talks about partying and having some sort of pleasure with no display of the cold harsh reality. Many young adults and children's perspective of how to be successful can be altered and be different than what was taught from the beginning. Their innocence is changed from what they have seen and they start to attempt to be that ideal painting that is created by that side of society. Like you are basically saying, children are sponges, they will absorb anything that is said by someone of recognition or/and authority. Those who stay with what they have learned from parents and teachers will be the ones succeeding and being the strongest of the pack.

Concluding: The teacher's job and their job is to cater to how a student learns, but those who do not understand no matter what (not including students with learning dysfunctions), they are not fit to what will lie in the future. Students with learning dysfunctions are a different story. The student has a big part as he/she really controls the outcome of his/her future so it is really up to them on how they choose. The least a struggling student can do is obviously change their grades. He/she would know who they are and generally know what bad grades can do but like I mentioned before, are aware of the consequences but don't feel that hard impact at that moment or/and when they are taught. I am not saying that all students who struggle (or in general) are like that but many are. Thank you once again and I hope to hear how you will counter my arguments.
TH3Antag0nist

Con

This has been a good debate. Here are my rebuttals.

Counter Argument#1:
My first counter argument is based off this phrase you used," You either learn it or you don't." When it comes to let's say Math is it that simple. If you have trouble in calculus but very advanced in trigonometry than do you know Math. A student may understand only part of a lesson. Lessons can go on for days and maybe one of those days the student was not feeling well and misunderstood. School is a step by step program not just a one day program. In school it is never as simple as," You either learn it or you don't."

Counter Argument#2:

You also say,"Only the best will pass, and the others will be proved weak." Well I do hope you realize school is not the Hunger Games. School is not about being competitive or weak in any way. School is something you join to learn. To know what you want to be as an adult, not watching your peers fail and you succeed. School is dealing with children, there are not a limited amount of diplomas they want their students to succeed.

Counter Argument #3

In your opposing argument you say,"The teacher's job is said in the job title, to teach." A teacher's job is to help a student succeed in life. They should teach a student. If the student is hard to teach is the teacher expected to give up? No, the teacher should try different methods and look from a student's point of view. I think that you see your peers below you. When you explain your example you call them sociable in a bad way. Not all students have the attention span of a sloth. When you said your teacher your teacher offered the failing students more options she was doing her job. In your story did every one of those kids who did not pay attentions fail? Well I doubt it. I'm sure that some of them did take these opportunities. Just because a student fails once does not mean that they don't deserve another chance.

Counter Argument #4
In your last argument you used an opposing argument. This was against the rules that you made. So I believe I am entitled to counter it. Your concluding sentence in that argument says," Those who stay with what they have learned from parents and teachers will be the ones succeeding and being the strongest of the pack." Well first of all you assume that all parents are encouraging. If a student is not motivated or lazy, where do you think it come from? Parents are possibly the biggest contributor to a child's attitude. There are many parent who don't even look at their child's grades. My parents stopped checking my grade after the 3rd grade. I was a straight A student at the time. Around middle school I realized that I did not even need to try. I fixed them in High School but still my parents had none to little involvement.
The other problem with this concluding statement is you saying," strongest of the pack." School is not a competition. Again School is meant to treat every student with equality. Your graduation class should be your friends, not your co-workers. School is not work, School is School.

Conclusion:

The Con is debating that teachers should not have compassion or mercy. The Con want school to be a competition for a diploma. Voters have you ever been confused in school. Did you got to a teacher and ask for help. If you have then you understand what I am debating. A School should be a child-friendly environment with nothing but kindness (excluding college).
Teacher should help students who are having problems, they should help them succeed.

P.S.
Vote on my other debates as well, I have 2 ties right now.
Debate Round No. 3
No comments have been posted on this debate.
4 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Vote Placed by Tophatdoc 3 years ago
Tophatdoc
MarcusAureliusTH3Antag0nistTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: I strongly agreed with Pro after the debate. However I felt that Pro did not have any valid idea to fully grasp his burden of proof. Pro could of did this by offering sources and facts. Which he did not do nor his opponent. Con wins the debate. Source point, S&G point, and Conduct point goes to no one. Good luck to you both in future debates.
Vote Placed by CynicalDiogenes 3 years ago
CynicalDiogenes
MarcusAureliusTH3Antag0nistTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Pro does not have any valid arguments to explain why a teacher should not be doing the very thing that they are being payed to do.Con does a good Job of pointing out the problems with Pro's ideas.
Vote Placed by Schopenhauer 3 years ago
Schopenhauer
MarcusAureliusTH3Antag0nistTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Both argued very well. However, I believe that Pro used more valid arguements about hiw student who dont try should not suceed. Both were around equal in other aspects.
Vote Placed by VisualSimulator 3 years ago
VisualSimulator
MarcusAureliusTH3Antag0nistTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Totally agree with Con, students need help if they are getting bad grades, it means they are struggling. everybody learns differently. If there is no one to help them then how are they gonna learn? Both had very good spelling and grammar and I felt that Con had more of a convincing argument.