The Instigator
MewxVenus
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Epicism
Pro (for)
Winning
14 Points

Teaching of religion should be allowed in public schools.

Do you like this debate?NoYes-1
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
Epicism
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/2/2009 Category: Religion
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 5,512 times Debate No: 7203
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (5)
Votes (2)

 

MewxVenus

Con

Since I am on the Con side of this debate, I will allow my opponent the first argument.

But I'd like to define my terms

Religion-meaning any kind of religious beliefs, including atheism

Teaching-Authority figures placing ideas in the minds of children via lectures, homework, etc.

Public schools-all schools within a public district, that is not held at a church or a one-room school house.

Allowed-permitted.
Epicism

Pro

Hi there! I'll accept this debate :) Seems to be a fun topic. How's it going?
As for the case;

I'm not LD but since everyone seems to be posting definition I best do the same!
Moral - of, pertaining to, or concerned with the principles or rules of right conduct or the distinction between right and wrong. (This goes for ethical as well)
Values - relative worth, merit, or importance.
Principle - an accepted or professed rule of action or conduct.
Also when I refer to "prayers" I'm talking about the practice of religion in school.

I am supporting the resolution, but I argue that there should be available electives (those extra classes you get to choose) so that people may choose which religion to practice or whether they want nothing to do with it. This is for schools who allow electives, other schools must find extra curricular means.

First off is student values;
It is important to base education on moral values and principles. Making prayers a part of the daily schooling is indeed beneficial. It fosters a moral and an ethical spirit in the school children. Prayers have a power of creating a pious atmosphere that helps instill certain values such as humility and discipline in the students. This helps the school children realize the essence of the ethical values. Prayers in school encourage the students to believe in the value system the school and follow it.

Banning prayers in school could mean depriving the school children of their freedom of religion. Banning prayers is equal to being non-religious. According to those who think in favor of prayers in school, think of prayers as an essential element of the school routine. For them, it seems quite irreligious not to recite a prayer everyday, especially at the start of your school day. Moreover, prayers give the students an opportunity to observe their religion. School children are in a way motivated to respect their religion. School prayers give the students a platform to live by their values. Prayers in school thus reiterate the principles, which the children follow at home.

Those favoring the concept of the recital of prayers in school think that a school should not only train its students academically but should also cultivate the minds of the children. Prayers can help the school authorities to inculcate fundamental moral values in the students' minds.

Religion is a HUGE part of our daily lives and will only grow larger in the future. Why not further educate ourselves with our own free will?

Second is fairness;

Everyday we recite the pledge of allegiance, which can count as a prayer due to "...one nation, under God, indivisible..." And this is unfair to other religions as there are Polytheists, Atheists, etc. Sure you can choose to not say the words, but its not fair that some religions can and others can't.

Many religious riots break out because one religion is being treated or tolerated more than another. Creation of optional classes for different religions would solve dispute over religious equality.

Catholic schools are hogging most of the funding from the Govt. with other religious private schools hanging by financial threads. Implementing these electives into public schools would promote the balance, because the school would be payed and the money distributed equally.

Electives on religion would support the 1st amendment, the only way a school can by law deny this right is if it "disrupts the learning process" but its the total opposite, religion is CRUTIAL to the learning process for the reasons of student values posted above. Religion can serve as a roadmap for the rest of your entire life just like education! Religion and education go together like Algebra 1 and Algebra 2...err... you know what I mean :P

Third is jobs;

Something people need now more than ever, jobs. Implementing these classes for multiple religions would be able to sever the unemployeement rate by a substantial sum. With religion's current popularity, jobs would be filling up quick.

More teachers also means better student:teacher ratio which has been proven to be much more effective. A class of 15 learns better ffrom one teacher than a class of 30. It allows more personal student to teacher learning/ tutoring.

Once again, I am arguing that electives on religion in pubic schools are good things. I am in no way arguing that there should be set classes that a student MUST take in religion.

BTW the video is random.. Its static X live :D this shows why you shouldn't expect to get good quality when you record in the front row lol. They still rock.. Its the recorders fault!

If you have any questions on an argument just comment it.
Good luck!
Thank you!
Debate Round No. 1
MewxVenus

Con

To begin with, I would like to thank my opponent for accepting this debate.

Next, I would like to attack my opponent's case.

To begin with, I never said that we would be banning prayers with this resolution. I merely stated that religion would not be taught in schools. Teachers do teaching, and I simply do not think it is right for them to teach religion during school hours. Students may say prayers of course, as long as they do not disrupt the learning of others to do so.

With their first contention on offering religious electives...schools across the nation can't afford this. Our budgets for education and extracurricular activities are being cut, largely due to Bush's No Child Left Behind Act of 2001. The only classes with substantial budgets are core classes, and even those are struggling. To prove this point, I give the following evidence:

http://media.www.vanderbiltorbis.com...

http://usliberals.about.com...

Since budgets are being cut so drastically, there is simply no way we can afford these electives. Also, my opponent says that we must treat all religions equally. Well, this makes offering these classes even more impossible, because we certainly can't afford to make a class for all religious groups in all schools.

Now, onto the second contention on fairness

I agree that it is not fair that these religious private schools (other than the catholic) are struggling. However, I do not believe that implementing religious electives in public schools will fix the problem. First of all, my opponent has not offered a source saying what percentage of money catholic private schools receive from the government, therefor this argument of equal monetary distribution cannot stand.

Also in this contention, my opponent insists that religion is crucial to the learning process. If this were so, then religious classes should be taught as core classes if taught at all, not electives. My opponent directly contradicts himself. Again, we can't even afford religious electives, especially with our economy in a recession. How can we possibly afford religious CORE classes? We can't.

And attacking their third contention

This is irrelevant due to the fact that schools affected by NCLB have had substantial budget cuts and can't afford new teachers, especially those schools that are on probation.

My biggest argument in this round is fairness.

Should a Christian instructor be allowed to inflict his or her beliefs onto the minds of their impressionable students? Should students feel a need to comply to their teachers and classmates' religions just to excel in school? The teaching of religion in school puts unnecessary pressure on students, can create hostility between students of different religions, and make students without a religion feel unimportant. Purposeless. This is not right and can in fact drop a students grades in direct correlation with their confidence. This is not fair. It is not morally or ethically right. And it is not the kind of world teenage students want to live in. They must deal with enough without worrying about the Book of Morman or Bible in school. Let our teens, pre-teens, and children be free.
Epicism

Pro

Sorry for my slow response. Onto my opponents arguments;

"To begin with, I never said that we would be banning prayers with this....as long as they do not disrupt the learning of others to do so."

As I stated before my use of the word "prayers" in school mean the practice (practice pertaining to teaching) of religion in schools. Either your contradicting your side of the resolution or you misinterpreted my use of the word.

"schools across the nation can't afford this....largely due to Bush's No Child Left Behind Act of 2001."

1. My opponents first source is from the effects of NCLB in 2003, and the second source displays Bush's "proposed" budget cuts in 2006. Obviously these can't account for our current status-quo.
2. Obama's stimulus plan is giving $392.6 million to support education in elementary, secondary, and post-secondary education (grades 1-12) Which will first be used to "back-fill" the cuts by the Bush administration.

Thats from my source http://www.thespectrum.com...

and the source also states so far Obama and the commitee have identified 17% of the cuts already while he isn't even in his second month of presidency. We can expect the rest of the cuts to be identified and terminated VERY soon.

"Since budgets are being cut so drastically, there is simply no way we can afford these electives."
1. My opponent argues as if what she states is inherent, as I've stated before it's not.

"we certainly can't afford to make a class for all religious groups in all schools."
1. We don't need to, we only need classes for people who wish to practice their religion in schools as a class. I've stated before not everyone with a religion is going to wan't to take a class on it. For example if there is a school with a bunch of muslims who wish to practice their religion in a class, the school would have a class for that. If anything it could be a class where religions people can get together with their peers and talk about their religion.

Schools have a wide variety of things they can do; they can create individual electives for the classes, or a smaller school with some variety of religions they could all get together and discuss their beliefs etc. any way that may help equalize the schools.

"Also in this contention, my opponent insists that religion is crucial to the learning process. If this were so, then religious classes should be taught as core classes if taught at all, not electives. My opponent directly contradicts himself."

Allow me to clear up my opponents view on the contradiction, I stand that religion is crutial to education for those who seek to further educate themselves in religion, because it combines their values with their education. Obviously regligion is not crutial for those who don't partake into it, and so they have the choice of NOT joining through electives. Core classes would force upon religion.

"And attacking their third contention
This is irrelevant due to the fact that schools affected by NCLB have had substantial budget cuts and can't afford new teachers, especially those schools that are on probation"

My previous answers to NCLB prove my "jobs" contention relevant. This being the only argument, my opponent concedes to my points within the contention because they were not answered.

"Should a Christian instructor be allowed to inflict his or her beliefs onto the minds of their impressionable.... Let our teens, pre-teens, and children be free."

I can claim this argument as well. I never proposed core classes as you have several time in your last round. Thus no "infliction" will happen. I agree, "let our teens, pre-teens, and children be free." if one is to be free, should they not be able to further educate themselves in school on their own religion? Therefore vote for that statement right there, on the Pro side.

Also any claim of religious violence in schools my opponent has sugested can only pertain to current unfairness in schools. Let them take electives in Atheism, Christianity, Buddhism, etc. so that we may end these conflicts due to unfair treatment. There are no warrants for religious classes causing chaos, but the evidence of unfair conflicts are all around us.

Onto my case;

Depriving religious classes from students severely undertakes their morals and values, it makes them think religion just isn't important enough to study in this world. This is my first contention.

Onto my second, my opponent concedes to my arguments all except the one about Catholic school funding. Sorry to say I never found that link again so I grant Con the argument, but my opponent is far from dismantling the contention. My arguments stand the same, please take a moment to review over my second contention again if you will viewers...

And my third contention, jobs. The only argument is that it is irrelevant because the budget cuts which is answered. You may extend my arguments on that contention as well, going unanswered.

To wrap up, my opponent states her biggest argument in this round is fairness, but Its obvious who owns that contention.

And remember, "Let our teens, pre-teens, and children be free."

Thank You!
Debate Round No. 2
MewxVenus

Con

MewxVenus forfeited this round.
Epicism

Pro

Extend my arguments.

I wonder what we would do in an Atheist class... lol of course, coloring books!
Debate Round No. 3
MewxVenus

Con

MewxVenus forfeited this round.
Epicism

Pro

I'll wrap this up first of all I thank my opponent for overall creating this debate its a subject I feel quite fond of.

Second my opponent brings no arguments to the table in the last two rounds, that means you default to Pro. Extend my arguments from round two and round one, those were proved correct.

And lastly, remember "Let our teens, pre-teens, and children be free."

Vote Pro!

Thank You!
Debate Round No. 4
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by Epicism 5 years ago
Epicism
I'll post tomorrow to late for me today. Hope I can get to it, I'm prepping for the district tournament this weekend =X
Posted by Epicism 5 years ago
Epicism
I'll take this :)
Posted by Nail_Bat 5 years ago
Nail_Bat
Do you mean teaching ABOUT religions, or a teacher telling students that God flooded the Earth but told one man to build an ark?
Posted by EmyG 5 years ago
EmyG
I'm pro, but I can't seem to find any specific points.
Posted by gregthedestroyer 5 years ago
gregthedestroyer
i am con for this topic. i wouldn't mind being pro just to test myself. except i have not thought of even one pro point for this ha. and i have been think hard about it.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by s0m31john 5 years ago
s0m31john
MewxVenusEpicismTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:07 
Vote Placed by Epicism 5 years ago
Epicism
MewxVenusEpicismTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:07