The Instigator
zander
Pro (for)
Losing
9 Points
The Contender
massvideogamer
Con (against)
Winning
25 Points

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/26/2008 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 3,497 times Debate No: 2948
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (3)
Votes (10)

 

zander

Pro

My claim is that Leonardo is by far the best ninja turtle. He's blue and has the coolest weapons.

Overall Leo is just the best. Anyone who says otherwise, your crazy.
massvideogamer

Con

You claim that Leonardo is the best Ninja Turtle period. WRONG. The other turtles are better than him at a lot of things. Raphael is stronger, Donatello is smarter, and Michelangelo is well... funnier.

You say he is the best because he is blue, that is purely opinionated as you have not proven it. Here is a definition of blue. Blue: sad or depressed. See that? Blue is the color of the depressed and sad. Red, Orange, and Purple are not.

Now is where I shall unload the Burden of Proof crap on you. You claim that Leonardo is the best Ninja Turtle without giving any proof, so now you must prove it according to the Burden of Proof junk that everyone uses.

I await the proof you have for me.
Debate Round No. 1
zander

Pro

Other ninja turtles have other good qualities for sure. But, Leo is definately the best all around turtle.

He is the leader of the other turtles. Master Splinter will tell you that.

Leo is the mix of all those great qualities that you listed plus leadership. While the other turtles may be specialized, Leo is a jack of all trades, making him most valuable.

Blue is not an opinion, blue is the BEST color. Fact.
-Words have multiple meanings. However, blue is the steroetypical color of boys. Cartoons in the time TNMT were created were even more geared towards boys than they are now. This means blue is the most appealing color to TNMT's demographic. I could say the same about all of the other colors as well. Purple is the stereotypical gay color. Red induces rage. etc.

You forgot about his weapons. His ninja swords are by far the deadliest weapons. They are blades, which trumps don's stick and mike's nunchucks, and they have more reach than raphael's sai.

Burden of proof is just as you describe it. We are taking equal sides of an issue and should bear equal weight. In civil court there is no burden of proof. Only in cases where criminal rights hold sway does burden of proof exist. I'm not accusing you of anything, you have chosen to take part in an equally weighted conversation. I say Leo is best, you say he is not. Explain to me why I should have the burden of proof. If you started a debate that said a particular turtle or all of the turtles were better than Leo, than by your rules you would bear the burden. Just because I started the debate doesn't mean a bear a burden.

Anyway, even if I do bear this burden, I have provided factual cause for my claim and therefore have logical ground to stand on.

Leo is the best ninja turtle, hands down. He is the well-rounded leader. He has the best weapons and his color is typically the most appealing to those who watch the show. Even if I lose the burden of proof argument dramatically, I have provided factual proof of my stance and done enough to win the point anyway.
massvideogamer

Con

True he's the leader of the Turtles, but that does not make him the best. If you have seen the TMNT movie that came out last March, you would know that Leo and Raph fought, and guess what, RAPH WON. He broke both of Leo's swords. So what if Leo's swords are longer, they are not as strong as Raph's sai, if they break like that. Plus, more people are probably trained to block swords than they are Sai, so they are more unready for a fight with Raphael.

Blue is not necessarily the best color. Sure it is the stereotypical boy color, but that does not make it the best. Just because blue is the boy color does not mean it is most popular among them. Everyone has their own opinion about colors. Some people like red, or green, or orange, or yellow, or purple, or any other color more than blue.

The Burden of Proof actually does exist in these online debates. Most of the best debaters on this site use the burden of proof and win (Logical Master, Yraelz, etc.) Just because you deny that you have it does not mean you do not have it. You started this debate, so you have to prove your point.

Leo is not the best Ninja Turtle. He is a good turtle no doubt as he is the leader, but he would be nothing without his comrades. If he is so great, why does he even have teammates? Why not just go off on his own and be a one-man hero? The reason he doesn't is because he needs his brothers. Without them he's dead-meat and vice versa, and vice versa, and vice versa. Sure he is the leader but that does not have to do anything with being the best, he was chosen as leader because he is the oldest. All of the turtle are equal with their own unique talents. Mich=Funny, Don=Smart, Leo=Leader, Raph=Strong.
Debate Round No. 2
zander

Pro

"True he's the leader of the Turtles, but that does not make him the best"

Quite to the contrary, he is the leader because he is the best. In the TNMT movie you cite, Master Splinter explains this to him in detail.

While Raph may have defeated Leo, Leo defeated Raph many times in the cartoons and live action TNMT movies. If you recall, in TNMT 2, Raph runs off in similar fashion and Leo goes after him wrestling him in battle and will to come back to the turtles. Raph defeated Leo in the newest movie because Leo was distraught and Raph was filled with rage. History says Leo is consistently a better fighter.

There is no reason to expect people to be more prepared for swords, you give me no reason to think so. All of the TNMT villians are well acquainted with the team and would be equally aware of all their skills. Leo has the most advantageous weapons because they are blades and are longer and more effective, probably why they are more common in the martial arts community.

Blue is the best color. You haven't disputed this. You simply say that everyone likes all colors and people have different opinions. My demographic argument refutes this directly. While all colors may be liked by all people, the turtle demographic is typically boys and boys typically like blue. This hasn't been refuted and at least wins me the benefit of the doubt on color.

Also, Leo is named after the best classic person. Da Vinci contributed more than either of the other three, to be sure.

Just because other debaters claim a burden of proof doesn't mean it exists. I explained to you in detail why I don't bear a burden. If you had made the claim that all or some turtles were better than Leo, would you bear the burden? The only distinguishing factor is that I started the debate. While I make my claim, you are simultaneously making a claim to the contrary. Just because I stated my position first doesn't mean I bear the burden. Refer to my civil court argument, its highly correlative. I have explained why I don't bear the burden of proof. You have just cited shaky precedent that is unfounded and unconfirmed. Even if I do bear the burden and lose this argument it is still possible for me to win the debate.

Leo is the best turtle. You haven't given me reason to think otherwise. You haven't pointed out any turtle that would be better, except Raph beating him once out of a dozen times they have fought. I don't argue that Leo is the best superhero or doesn't need his brothers. He definately needs the team, but is the most vital part of the brotherhood. He is the leader with the best weapons and color. He is named after the best person (Da Vinci). Leo is the well-rounded leader that can contribute in all areas. Leo is the glue that holds them together. Master Splinter values him most highly, as we saw in the March movie. You haven't given me any alternatives, just tried to prove that Leo is equal to all others. This means, if I win one argument and can prove that Leo is better than the others in at least ONE aspect, I have proven that he is better than the others, if only by a small margin. Thanks.
massvideogamer

Con

you say that Leo beats Raph countless times, and yet you have not given any examples of Raph losing, all you say is they wrestle, not who won. At least be more specific.

As you said, swords are more common, which means people would most likely be more prepared to combat them. Sai on the other hand aren't so common, and they are stronger as they broke both of Leo's swords. I am not saying specifically the Turtles' enemies wouldn't be ready as they fight them alot, but for someone who had never fought the turtles before, they would be less ready to fight someone with Sai than with Swords.

Blue is just a color. There is nothing specialer about it than the other colors. Just because blue is the "boy" color does not mean it is the more popular color. Some boys hate the color blue, as some girls hate the color blue. You have not proven that blue is a better color as you claim, making me the winner of this argument in our debate.

Names do not matter. Someone could have a horrible name but still be the most popular person in the world. Names have nothing to do with which turtle is better. You don't see kids going around saying "Ooh, Leonardo is my favorite turtle because he has the same first name as Leonardo Davinci!"

You do have the burden of proof because you made the debate, and you made the initial claim, done.

He is not the BEST turtle, he is a good turtle no doubt, but the others are just as good. I already went over Leo's weapons, color, and name so I won't go over it again. Even if you proved that Leo is better than the others in one aspect, it does not prove that he is the overall best, for each turtle is better in they're own way. It seems to me that you have failed to thuroughly prove your topic, making me the winner.
Debate Round No. 3
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by thepygmysloth 3 years ago
thepygmysloth
I have thoroughly enjoyed reading this debate and can see weight in both of your arguments. Though, I will have to say I side more with negative position in this debate. It seems that most of the pro"s positions are subjective. I will now give my insight on the topic.

I don"t recall anywhere it stating that Leonardo is the best TMNT. Yes, it is clear that Leo is the leader of the four, but leader isn"t a synonym for best. (For example, a sports team where the leader and best player are not the same person.) A leader is in their position because he/she possesses strong leadership ability, as Leo does, but each turtle has different and unique traits that set them apart. (Mentioned earlier in the debate)

As for color, the pro position is stating a completely subjective claim. There is no such thing as a "best color". Zander claims that boys typically like the color, but in my experience boys like the color red more often. Probably because red seems more masculine and fierce, which a good few of males strive to be. (Coincidentally Raphael)

When it comes to weapons, I feel that the best melee weapon is irrelevant. Skill with a particular weapon is more deadly than any misused "best weapon". All turtles possess great skill with their weapons and that is what really matters. Triggers are a different story.

Personally I do like Leonardo the best of the four brothers, but based on intelligent thought, it doesn"t mean he"s the "best". So when it comes down to it, the ninja turtles are a family and a team; they rely on each other for their strength and success, equal in skill and unique in ability.
Posted by Tiger1245 8 years ago
Tiger1245
I like the guy with the hockey stick too!
Posted by cliffsofdover 8 years ago
cliffsofdover
Personaly, I liek da guy wit the hockee stick
10 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by massvideogamer 8 years ago
massvideogamer
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Vote Placed by zjack3 8 years ago
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Vote Placed by Tiger1245 8 years ago
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Vote Placed by zander 8 years ago
zander
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Vote Placed by jmanstar 8 years ago
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