The Instigator
tmass19
Pro (for)
Losing
4 Points
The Contender
nerdykiller
Con (against)
Winning
26 Points

Teens should not have to go to school

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/16/2011 Category: Education
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,643 times Debate No: 17930
Debate Rounds (2)
Comments (10)
Votes (6)

 

tmass19

Pro

Hello, I would like to first state that this is my first debate, and I am on this website to learn about a wide range of topics, and walk away with more knowledge, and facts then I currently have. With that said, I may not have very well arguments, and may be easily "defeated."
Ok, so to start this off, I would like to say that school should not be needed for teens. This is because 99% of the information taught is not needed. The 1% being math/algebra, but only to an extent. Next, school shouldn't be needed because it is a complete waste of time, and money, since most of the stuff taught, isn't needed.
Now here is my opinion, school isn't needed because I believe that when teens turn 16, they should then have to find a job/career, and with doing so, they should be taught everything they need to know about that job/career, at the place of employment. Example- If a 16 year old gets a job at, oh lets say an electronics store, they don't need to know where oxygen is on the periodic table, or how far earth is from the sun, they just need to know about the electronics.

Hopefully someone accepts this, and good luck to whoever does, even though it isn't needed.
nerdykiller

Con

Hi Tmass19.
Thank you for this debate.

Definition

Have- to be required, compelled, or under obligation
http://dictionary.reference.com...

Rebuttal

* "I would like to say that school should not be needed for teens. This is because 99% of the information taught is not needed."

First I would like to point out that you should at least try to back up your statements with resources.
If a teen doesn't go to school where would she or he go?

* "The 1% being math/algebra, but only to an extent. Next, school shouldn't be needed because it is a complete waste of time, and money, since most of the stuff taught, isn't needed."

School teaches different courses for different students. You just saying the 1% is math and algebra is false.
Waste of time is a false statement since that a school teaches you what you basically need to strive in the society.
I don't believe school is a waste of money since America invest so much more money on useless thins such as an endless war.
School budget - $69.9 billion 2011
Military budget- $1.030–$1.415 trillion 2011

http://www2.ed.gov...
http://en.wikipedia.org...

There is big difference between the two budget, this causes me to believe that School budget isn't costly.
School does teaches information needed for the future and the students themselves can choose what they want to learn.

* "Now here is my opinion, school isn't needed because I believe that when teens turn 16, they should then have to find a job/career, and with doing so, they should be taught everything they need to know about that job/career, at the place of employment. Example- If a 16 year old gets a job at, oh lets say an electronics store, they don't need to know where oxygen is on the periodic table, or how far earth is from the sun, they just need to know about the electronics."

Okay if a teen gets a job at the age sixteen he or she could have learned all that at school.
School classes are often broken down to these subjects.
-English
-Math
-History
-Science
-Language
-Extra
-PE
-ETC

If a teen wants to get a job at an electronics store he and she needs to apply for it by filling out a job application.
-This is where English comes in.
Its an electronic store you might need to fix something. You can use your math and science skills.
A customer might speak a different language, if you learned a foreign language you might be able to help.
You might be walking around a lot.
-PE comes in to play at this situation.

The list is endless, you can't just say that the teen is not gonna need education by going to school.
All school does is that it help you prepare for the future situation.

Reasons

School is a vital process in our lives. It is a place where we not only learn, but make friends and team work builds. School gives education that might seem unreasonable or useless, but the truth is that we don't know what we will do in the future and that education gave more variety for a job. School is something that can't be replaced it gives help that is needed in the future.
Debate Round No. 1
tmass19

Pro

Thank you for debating with me, I guess I will just go for it.

"If a teen doesn't go to school where would she/he go?"
Where ever they would like to be, with or without there parents consent. They could just exercise a lot, they could be on this website arguing if that's what they would like to do. As I do realize if a teen doesn't go to school they have a lot of free time on their hands, but why go to a place where you learn nothing truly needed.

"Waste of time is a false statement since school teaches you what you basically need to strive in society."
And what exactly is it teaching me other than the 1% math/algebra that you could use in quite a few situations, off the top of my head, doing taxes, or working out prices for items. People sure don't need to know what year Christopher Columbus traveled to America to survive in today's society.

"I don't believe school is a waste of money since America invest so much more money on useless things such as an endless war."
I could argue about how you think the war is "useless" but that is an entirely different debate.

"If a teen wants to get an electronics store he and she needs to apply for it by filling out a job application- This is where English comes in." Anyone can learn English, writing, grammar, by doing simple things as watching TV, or just going on the Internet.

As far as the foreign language thing goes, there are many programs such as Rosetta Stone that you can learn a variety of languages from, while still being in the comfort of your own home.

"You might be walking around a lot" All I have to say to this is that if you get tired from walking indoors for periods of time, it is just sad.

"All school does is that it help you prepare for the future situation"
How exactly is this? By wasting their time and making them work hard for nothing?

"But make friends and team work builds."
Yes, along with school you can gain friendly relationships, or more than friendly relationships, but you can also be exposed to fights, drugs, and very bad behavior. An example I have is through my high school years I have seen countless fights, 1 of which a kid had gotten a fractured jaw. I have seen many classmates get into marijuana and skip school, or just get into a lot of trouble with their parents or the police. I know of one who has been into Juvie and jail several times. With going to school there is a higher chance of being injured, having your life ruined by drugs (possibly) or being exposed to gangs, weapons, etc.

One last thing I would like to say is that with the internet, school is definitely not needed. There is countless sites where you can learn math, science, languages, music, workouts, etc.

Thank you for debating with me once again.
nerdykiller

Con

Thank you for a fun debate.

Rebuttals
1* "Where ever they would like to be, with or without there parents consent."

I don't believe that is a good idea. I mean letting a teenager whether he is fourteen years old or sixteen years old, still it is a horrible idea to let teenagers go wherever they wish.

2* "They could just exercise a lot, they could be on this website arguing if that's what they would like to do."

If they go to school they can exercise there. School doesn't take up all the students time, so they can do what they want to do after school.

3* "As I do realize if a teen doesn't go to school they have a lot of free time on their hands, but why go to a place where you learn nothing truly needed."

You have time after school to do what you want to do. Also even you said school teaches something "This is because 99% of the information taught is not needed. The 1% being math/algebra, but only to an extent."
I believe that school gives you free time afterward and you also learn at school.

4* "And what exactly is it teaching me other than the 1% math/algebra that you could use in quite a few situations, off the top of my head, doing taxes, or working out prices for items. People sure don't need to know what year Christopher Columbus traveled to America to survive in today's society."

School is created there to teach the students what they need to learn in general. If a student wants to learn history to become historian then they can at school. School gives you variety of classes to take so yob can choose to focus more one the one that you want. If a student changes their career from a mechanic to historian then the school's basic teaching at least prepares the students for such an event.

5* "Anyone can learn English, writing, grammar, by doing simple things as watching TV, or just going on the Internet."

This is a false statement because how does anyone learn English by just going on the internet or watching TV.
There is so many shows that are filled with bad grammar and doesn't teach you anything.
If a student stays home to go on internet to learn about the economics or watch the news, it is more efficient for them to be at school where they learn more then what they can learn from the internet.

6* "As far as the foreign language thing goes, there are many programs such as Rosetta Stone that you can learn a variety of languages from, while still being in the comfort of your own home."

If you say that the students will try to learn by using Rosetta Stone it is basically like you are making a school for them.
Through out the argument you gave ways that they can study other than by going to school.
School does all that you have mention and gives a foundation for the students to have.

7* "All I have to say to this is that if you get tired from walking indoors for periods of time, it is just sad."

America is facing a obesity in every states and even if it is sad, that is the truth that many teenagers are obese.
If they go to school that would all change. School gives daily running and other exercise. School also provide many other ways to get healthier such as school sports. If a student is obese he or she would not wanna want to exercise, but if they go to school they have no choice then to do so.
http://www.buzzle.com...

8* "How exactly is this? By wasting their time and making them work hard for nothing?"

School gives a basic foundation you need in the future. Like I said in #4(rebuttals) that there might be a possibility that a student might change their career and the education that they received in school gives them some form of knowledge that helps them. They don't work for nothing, they work for their future.

9* "Yes, along with school you can gain friendly relationships, or more than friendly relationships, but you can also be exposed to fights, drugs, and very bad behavior. An example I have is through my high school years I have seen countless fights, 1 of which a kid had gotten a fractured jaw. I have seen many classmates get into marijuana and skip school, or just get into a lot of trouble with their parents or the police. I know of one who has been into Juvie and jail several times. With going to school there is a higher chance of being injured, having your life ruined by drugs (possibly) or being exposed to gangs, weapons, etc."

I agree that these situations might happen, but I believe that if a student is allowed to do what ever that they want then the situations changes completely.
Like you said "Where ever they would like to be, with or without there parents consent. "
I believe this act is going to get the teenager in more trouble then going to school. I mean who is more likely to get in dangerous situation a teen hanging out with gang members or a teen studying at school. I realize that there is illegal activities at school, but there is even on the streets where the teens will be if they don't go to school.

10* "One last thing I would like to say is that with the internet, school is definitely not needed. There is countless sites where you can learn math, science, languages, music, workouts, etc."

Interne is a double edge sword, one side is what you have stated that it is helpful, the other is the evil on the web.
Even if there is countless website that teaches you, there are even more countless website that contains inappropriate things such as porn, violent videos, and so much more.
The pro of going to school defeats the con of not going to school.

It was fun debating you Tmass19.
Debate Round No. 2
10 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by poorenglishspeaker 5 years ago
poorenglishspeaker
Teens learn everything they need at the workplace instead of going to school.
That's a good idea.
I have never used complex mathematical formulae after graduation,which I struggled to learn at school.
Thank you for nice debates.
Posted by Logic_on_rails 5 years ago
Logic_on_rails
This topic raises interesting issues, but due to the somewhat draconian nature of the resolution didn't get far. I'd suggest something like 'There should be a lower minimum number of hours of mandatory schooling' , although you'd have to phrase it better!

A key point is that although things like the Internet can teach one much, not many students would choose to use free time to learn. Also, I would argue there are necessities (like basic English, maths - yr7 at least) and then a long list of helpful things that increase productivity and such.

But I'm not going to add too many points in the comments here. That'd be for a debate of some sort.
Posted by nerdykiller 5 years ago
nerdykiller
Tmass19 did good for his first debate!
Posted by tmass19 5 years ago
tmass19
Thank you all for the comments!
Posted by Itsallovernow 5 years ago
Itsallovernow
Take for example this Contention:

""If a teen doesn't go to school where would she/he go?"
Where ever they would like to be, with or without there parents consent. They could just exercise a lot, they could be on this website arguing if that's what they would like to do. As I do realize if a teen doesn't go to school they have a lot of free time on their hands, but why go to a place where you learn nothing truly needed."

I would repeat the contention and say something like, "Parents are the ones who are responsible for the overall well-being of the student in present and future, much like school. If a student exercises a lot or are on a website arguing, then they are creating learned-traits that may have a better method. School collects the knowledge based on repeated and proven methods that it is best for a student to learn than attempting an incorrect or lesser method to broaden the concept for them. There is a common saying for a lot of free-time "Idle hands are the devil's playground." It is best to contiually work with teens to established a productive future of knowledge to provide for a sense of self-betternment and enhancing overall society."

And that's what I'd say. Maybe not so much for a minor, flawed point, but you get my drift. Good luck to you both!
Posted by Itsallovernow 5 years ago
Itsallovernow
Pro's only argument why teens shouldn't attend school is that the information is useless and not applied directly to a job of their choice. This could be refuted by saying most don't know what job they'll have, esp. in this economy, so school provides them with knowledge of their adolecent, developing strengths and weaknesses.

Furthermore, CON failed to mention that most teens get to choose classes, thusly emphasizing their interests and making their future career pathway a more knowledgable and attainable future.

Pro only provided a young apprenticeship for an alternative to school. School is defined as an institution of learning. Wouldn't an apprenticeship be the same as school? The purpose of school is to keep the ability to learn growing and make students wiser. College would be eliminated if middle/high school was gone. Therefore, we would not have an as developed society, resulting in lowered age expectancy and a generally undeveloped country.

Since PRO did not have strong, convicing arguments and CON did not clearly refute, then I tie the arguments. CON focused too much on rebutting individual remarks, like I do. In the future, I'd advise attacking the Contention and using their supporting points to further discredit and void the Contention.
Posted by randolph7 5 years ago
randolph7
Con should have mentioned other reasons for learning besides getting a job.
Posted by Mestari 5 years ago
Mestari
After going line-by-line through every argument I am convinced tmass19 wins. Here's why: I don't see a convincing reason as to why teens should not have to go to school. However, I also do not see a compelling reason as to why they should either. There was no debate on the burden of proof so I had to intervene and determine that based on he definition of "have" by nerdy killer, the pro was arguing that there should not be an obligation to go. If there are competing reason as to why you are and are not obligated to do something which are equally valid, I default the action as permissible. If I do not, then no action should be taken and we would see a paralysis in decision-making and there would be no winner. Thus the resolution becomes, "Resolved: Teens are not obligated to go to school." If you have objections as to why I discarded the word "should" then just ask and I will explain my logic.
Spelling and Grammar obviously goes Con.
Sources to Con because he actually used them.
Conduct to Con for his warning to the Pro and overall cordial behavior.
Posted by nerdykiller 5 years ago
nerdykiller
I want to debate u but i want to do it fairly.
So change it to at least two.
Posted by nerdykiller 5 years ago
nerdykiller
Dude change the rounds....
Trust me 1 round debate is where the PRO always loses.
6 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Vote Placed by iholland95 5 years ago
iholland95
tmass19nerdykillerTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: Children should have to go to school. It's important. Sometimes I wish that could happen, but keep dreaming Pro cause it's not happening.
Vote Placed by Itsallovernow 5 years ago
Itsallovernow
tmass19nerdykillerTied
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Total points awarded:13 
Reasons for voting decision: CONDUCT- CON (More professional. Pro was too informal. Spelling. PRO (While CON had better format, PRO used correct punctuation when appropriate.) Argument- TIE *(Neither presented enough evidence. I will elaborate in COMMENTS) SOURCES: CON
Vote Placed by F-16_Fighting_Falcon 5 years ago
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
tmass19nerdykillerTied
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Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: A brave effort by trmass on his first debate. After a disaster of a first round, he put up a good fight in the second. But Nerdykiller consistently refuted every one of the arguments and hammered in the point that school gives you choices. Pro also made unsourced claims so loses on sources. Seriously, where did you get the "98 of school is waste of time" quote?
Vote Placed by wierdman 5 years ago
wierdman
tmass19nerdykillerTied
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Reasons for voting decision: This debate is awful.
Vote Placed by randolph7 5 years ago
randolph7
tmass19nerdykillerTied
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Reasons for voting decision: This debate disproves the resolution simply by reading it.
Vote Placed by Mestari 5 years ago
Mestari
tmass19nerdykillerTied
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Total points awarded:34 
Reasons for voting decision: RFD in comments.