The Instigator
ibis
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
CivilianName295
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points

Telepathic prank or God almighty?

Do you like this debate?NoYes+1
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 0 votes the winner is...
It's a Tie!
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/6/2017 Category: Religion
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 363 times Debate No: 100606
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (4)
Votes (0)

 

ibis

Con

How would I know the difference between God speaking to me, or my friend causing a telepathic prank?

If God uses telepathy to communicate how would we know when it is him and if he doesn't use telepathy is it not just then another story made up by man and his imagination?
CivilianName295

Pro

You asked this question "How would I know the difference between God speaking to me or my friend causing a telepathic prank"

Well to answer your question it needs to be understood how telepathy works. It usually means that someone is able to read your mind. This is common among psychics however the issue is that psychics use words and ask questions that can apply to millions of people. This is why the scientific community doesn't take telepathy seriously. Now what about you communicating to God? Well to answer that we need to understand the correct concept of prayer I like to put it out like this.
To start off both skeptics and most christians have a wrong understanding of prayer. They assume that god must always answer prayer the verses they use to support this is from Matthew 21:22
Matthew 21:22 King James Version (KJV)
22 And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.
However a literal interpretation of this verse won't work since if that was the case then we must assume that Mark 6:23 is also literal
Mark 6:23 King James Version (KJV)
23 And he sware unto her, Whatsoever thou shalt ask of me, I will give it thee, unto the half of my kingdom.
Notice it says "half of my kingdom" if this was literal then the girls immediate answer would be that she would want the north half of the kingdom but of course we don't see this in the text. The key here is that to offer someone's half possession was a favorite expression. It simply meant that the person was exceedingly grateful and with to give a generous award. At the same time it's the same with what jesus said so we know the passage is not literal. So when jesus speaks of being able to move mountains with prayer (Mark 11:23), no one took this to mean literal permission to overturn the topography. The phrase "moving mountains" was a jewish metaphor for accomplishing what was difficult or virtually impossible, and thus indicates hyperbole is being used. In jesus day only the "super pious" were depicted as having a "blank check" with prayer and their piety meant they only asked for what god willed and the super pious wouldn't go around asking for anything. The precondition of god's will was always a "given" when it came to prayer. It is only stated explicitly as an instruction in (1 John 5:14-15) which is written to a gentile readership that would not share this jewish presupposition. Also notice (Matthew 6:11)
Matthew 6:11 King James Version (KJV)
11 Give us this day our daily bread.
Notice the objects of each prayer basically daily staples not a rois well or wealth not even being spared suffering or ill health. Now given those parameters do you really think the promises by jesus was offered a chance of unlimited ligest. Or do you suppose they might suggest a more humble approach. Within the context of an ancient patronage relationship one in which god the father is patrian and believers are clients jesus acts as a broker for prayers in such situations no client expected unlimited granting request and likely many of them wouldn't be granted however submitting request was a proper and honorable way of recognizing authority of the patreon that's also why persistence prayer is represented as a model. One was expected to continue recognizing the patreons authority even when prayers were not answered properly. To sum it up prayer is sort of like a legal formality.
Patronage relationship:
Clients (christians) could make request of the patron (god the father) via brokers (like jesus)
A client would hardly presume to impose on the patreon to an unlimited extent
Persistence could honor the patreon by recognising the patrons authority but proper piety recognised this was only for pious request
Luke 18 specifically talks about prayers for god's justice to be delivered, and connects it to Jesus, advent of son of man (cf. Matthew 25:31-46)
So the problem of unanswered prayer fails to account for:
The semantics of making of pledges (particularly the use of hyperbole and dramatic language)
The social dynamics of patronage
The role of god's will, and personal piety in the making of supplications
So prayer is not as simple as asking god for anything you want it is a complex concept that needs to be properly understood.
Debate Round No. 1
ibis

Con

Well as apolytheist I have many problems defining the god of monotheism, so I am a bit of an ignostic there, but when it comes to my argument here I will try and defend all forms of deities or super spirits.

In telepathic communication one could argue that the voice of a spirit from another realm such as a pagan god is more subtle and is less seeking, since it is normally lesser god or a god supreme.
CivilianName295

Pro

My opponent responded that there could be a lesser God that speaking to you. I agree that it has happened before whenever angels appear to a prophet to give them a message (Ex: archangel Gabriel telling marry that she will have a son)
So yes it's possible however it's not the same thing as prayer since prayer goes directly to the supreme God and not a lesser God. Like I said before the patronage relationship helps us understand prayer in a new fundamental way since it solves all the problems of "the problem of unanswered prayer". So that would be the fundamental difference between telepathy and God.

(Sources that I forgot to add previous round about telepathy and psychics)
(1) http://casa.colorado.edu...
Debate Round No. 2
ibis

Con

Seeing that you are a Christian arguing your god over telepathy, I will argue that the Christian god if capable of telepathy could probably be faked by a human using telepathy, as you say telepathy is not taken seriously by scientists, neither is the belief in God or the concept of god.

In a god believing environment the argument is then that one should do banishment rituals as you could be speaking to uncle Peter instead of god if you don't or you could be communicating with Pan instead of Jesus.
CivilianName295

Pro

My opponent responded that the scientific community doesn't take telepathy seriously and I agree they don't since telepathy can be considered a supernatural event meaning that it's outside the realm of science the same things applies to prayer. Now when it comes comes to prayer most people say "in Jesus name amen" at the end of the prayer so that your message gets out to the correct God. Now I'm not going to debate which religion is true or if God exist but since the debate question presupposes the existence of God then I'm going to have to presuppose that God exist. So for the pusposes of this debate the difference between telepathy and prayer is the thing I meantioned in round 1 the patreonage relationship between God and his creations. So the opponent is clearly misrepresenting prayer.
Debate Round No. 3
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by Taylor_Watson 1 year ago
Taylor_Watson
yes there are many gods and many beliefs about him so please specify
Posted by ibis 1 year ago
ibis
I mean any God who has (super)power over the physical reality.
Posted by ibis 1 year ago
ibis
I mean any God who has (super)power over the physical reality.
Posted by CivilianName295 1 year ago
CivilianName295
I need to know what God your talking about. Is it the more general term like a deity or is this God specific to any religion
No votes have been placed for this debate.