The Instigator
johnnydare
Pro (for)
Losing
2 Points
The Contender
Vexorator
Con (against)
Winning
16 Points

Tennis is more difficult then Baseball

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 4 votes the winner is...
Vexorator
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/10/2014 Category: Sports
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,894 times Debate No: 60286
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (10)
Votes (4)

 

johnnydare

Pro

Hey. This is my first debate so I thought that I'd start with a simple and friendly topic. I will be debating that Tennis is more difficult to learn and master then Baseball, as well as it being simply more difficult to play. Tennis players need to be in top physical and mental condition nearly all year around, as opposed to Baseball players whom play shorter seasons and don't need to be as fit or mentally tough.

First round is acceptance

Good Luck!
Vexorator

Con

Welcome to the site! I accept. My position will be that tennis is not more difficult than baseball.
Debate Round No. 1
johnnydare

Pro

Thanks for accepting.

Argument 1: Pitch vs Serve

In there own sports, the pitch and the serve begin the play. In Baseball, the pitch is thrown from the pitchers hand to the batter, whom is about 18.4 (MLB distance ) meters away. They have to obstructions and have a clear path to their target. They have to pitch it to the Batters swinging side (their dominant side) and hope they can strike out the opponent. In tennis, the server stands at one "baseline" and tries to serve it the their opponent at the other Baseline, about 24 (ATP distance) meters away. The tennis players, however, has to hit the ball over a net and into the designated box across the court. The tennis players clearly have a tougher time even starting the play.

Next is the speeds of the pitch and the serve. The average pitch (fastball) from a MLB pitcher is about 90 Mph while the average ATP tour serve is 115 mph, 25 mph faster. This gives the tennis player less time to react to the serve. Also, serves in tennis can also have spin on the ball, much like a curveball pitch, but they can be served to the returners forehand (strong side) or backhand (weaker side). This also makes it harder to return because they ball can go either way as opposed to baseball players whom can only pitch to the batters strongest side.

Last, when the batter hits the ball,he has the entire field that he can aim for, though he preferably wants to hit the ball as far as possible. Meanwhile tennis players have to return the ball back into the opponents side of the court at a fast speed to avoid giving the opponent a easy point. If they miss the court or hit the net the point goes to the opponent and if you compare the Surface Area of a Baseball diamond and a court, you'll see the target area of a tennis player is a lot smaller.

Argument 2: Baseball bat vs Racket (difficulty and fatigue)

This is an interesting one. The Bat cannot be greater the 2.6 inches in diameter and 42 inches in length, 33 to 36 ounces and is a solid piece of wood or other material. This gives the batter a striking surface about 2 inches and can hot almost anywhere on the bat. The Rackets have more variety with their sizes. They can be from 21 to 18 inches long and weigh about 9 ounces. The racket is smaller but lighter and the bat is small but heavier, characteristics needed for their own sports. However, it is a misconception that tennis player can ht the ball anywhere on their racket. In order to create control over power and spin, the players have to hit the ball with the "sweet spot" of the racket which is the dead Centre of the racket and its not much larger (if it is) then the bats striking surface. So it seems pretty balanced here, which it is at the start of a match of either sports. As the match progresses though, the picture changes. The tennis player strikes the ball over 1000 times in a match, over the coarse of 1 to 5 hours while a batter hits the ball less then 50 times, (only 9 of those will count at the maximum). This is not counting all the running involved. This is where fatigue sets in on both players, though more so on the tennis player, much more. This is due to the fact that the tennis player simply moves a lot more then the baseball player.

Argument 3. The Athletes (Fitness, Agility, Speed, Power, and Endurance)

Lets use a scoring system, the sport which requires the most of said trait will get a point. Calculated out of 4. 1 point for a win, 0 for loss, .5 for a tie.

First is the clear difference in the body types of the athletes. (MLB) Baseball players are of decent fitness, though some can slightly overweight. (ATP) Tennis players, however, are similar to soccer players. They are in great physical condition and not a single one of them is even close to overweight. This is due to the fact that you simply have to be in near perfect condition to play tennis because of its demands. Edge Tennis player

Next is agility. I have to admit I've seen some really cool catches in Baseball, but they don't compare to the stuff I've seen in tennis. A rally of tennis is almost like a series of suicide drills, sprinting back and forth across the court while trying to hit a winner on the run. Its not easy and its very tiring. Also, have you ever seen a baseball player do the split during a catch? I've seen tennis players do the splits twice in a rally and still win the point. Edge tennis player

Power can go either way. I can imagine the power behind the bat when it strikes a baseball but at the same time, hitting a 200kph serve is not child's play either. Both athletes need to be precise with the way they hit, serve, or pitch the ball that its hard to call this one. Its even.

Last is endurance, and its clear: Tennis. Running more then 2 miles is tiring, now add on the fact that it is all in sprints, the fact that that can be backwards and forewords, and the fact that it is all done while hitting a tennis ball. Baseball players probably run 2 miles in a season, let alone a match. Edge Tennis player.

Tennis player: 3.5/4
Baseball player: .5/4
Winner tennis player

This little game gave a clear rundown on the athletes of both sports. Though baseball players are great athletes, Tennis players are simply more fit because their sport requires that they are.

http://gizmodo.com...
http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://wiki.answers.com...
http://www.tennisserver.com...
http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://en.wikipedia.org...
Vexorator

Con

REBUTTALS

Argument 1:

Difficulty and distance
Longer distances does not mean more difficult, unless used within the same sport. For example, in football, a 50 yard field goal is more difficult to make than a 30 yard field goal. In that context, distance can be applied to difficulty. Comparing two different sports that have different game mechanics does not work, because of differences in size and shape of the ball, pitch, field, sporting equipment, and so on. It would be like saying scoring a goal in soccer from halfline is more difficult than getting a strike in bowling because of distance, it cannot work because of the weight of the ball and different game mechanics. In baseball, the pitcher intends for his pitch to land in the catcher's glove. In tennis, the server intends for the ball to land in bounds.

Obstructions
Baseball pitchers do have obstructions. If they hit the batter with the ball, then the batter gets a walk. Pitchers must be skilled and careful not to hit the batter, while at the same time giving a good pitch. This does not mean that baseball itself is more difficult than tennis, but it shows that tennis cannot be more difficult than baseball in this perspective.

Speeds of pitch vs serve
A serve may be faster than a pitch, but the length of a tennis court is longer[1] than the distance between the pitcher's mound and home plate[2]. The length of a tennis court is 78' and the distance from the pitcher's mound to home plate is 60'6". If you do the math, the extra speed and extra distance of a serve is nearly the same as the slower speed and shorter distance of a pitch.

Size of tennis court vs baseball field
As I said in Difficulty and distance, game mechanics of one sport cannot simply be compared to the game mechanics of another sport. If a batter hits the ball out of bounds, then it is a foul, which is a strike, although one cannot strikeout on a foul. The tennis court being smaller than a baseball field does not prove that it is more difficult, because again, these are two different sports with very different game mechanics.

Argument 2:

Baseball bat vs racket
You said it yourself, regarding the weight of a baseball bat vs. a racket, that there are "characteristics needed for their own sports," which is why the difficulty of using a tennis racket cannot be compared to the difficulty of using a baseball bat. You said that there is a "sweet spot" on a tennis racket. There is a "sweet spot" on a baseball bat as well. The batter must hit the baseball on the right spot of his bat to send the ball where he wants it. If the batter wants a homerun, he will have to hit the ball close to the top of his bat, and to get a grounder, he will have to hit the ball close to the bottom of his bat. If a batter wants a successful bunt, he will have to hit the ball precisely near the middle of the bat to prevent an easy pop-up.

Tennis players strike the ball more than baseball players, and fatigue
While this is true, tennis players do not play multple positions. Batters have to do more than strike the ball. They must play in the outfield unless they are a designated hitter. In the outfield they have to catch the ball, chase it down, and throw it. Batters must also be able to sprint at full speed, anywhere from 90 ft to 360 ft.

Argument 3:

Fitness
There are still very different game mechanics between the two sports. A sport that requires more of a specific quality than another sport does not mean it is more difficult. This is because each sport is unique.

Agility
As you said, agility is still required in baseball. "It's not easy and it's very tiring" does not show that agility in tennis is more difficult than in baseball. One's being able to do the splits does not show agility, it shows flexibility.

Power
You admitted that it's even, which does not show tennis as more difficult than baseball.

Endurance
Baseball players don't need as much endurance as tennis players because of different game mechanics, so the two cannot be compared in this field.

Rundown on respective athletes
While tennis players may be more fit, it does now show that the game itself is more difficult.

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ARGUMENTS

Argument 1:

Game mechanics
"All games use mechanics; however, theories and styles differ as to their ultimate importance to the game."[3] In tennis, players must avoid hitting the net or knocking the ball out of bounds to score points. In baseball, players must make it to home plate to score points. Both sports obviously have very different game mechanics and objectives. Tennis cannot be proven as more difficult than baseball just because it requires more fitness for the same reason that baseball cannot be proven as more difficult than tennis just because it requires the ability to catch a ball in the air. With different game mechanics, we cannot determine whether one sport is more difficult than another.



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SOURCES

[1] http://www.sportsknowhow.com...
[2] http://jowelbe.files.wordpress.com...;
[3] http://en.wikipedia.org...;
Debate Round No. 2
johnnydare

Pro

I only had enough characters to re-rebut to a few of your rebuttals.

Re-rebuttals

Rebuttals to argument 1

Obstructions

"Pitchers must be skilled and careful not to hit the batter, while at the same time giving a good pitch."

This is true. However, in tennis the angle needed to get the ball over the net is much smaller then the near straight pitch needed from the pitcher. They have to hit the ball over a net and into a box directly on the other side, while trying to play within the boundaries. As for the walkover, it’s similar to a double fault in tennis. In tennis, if you fault a serve twice in a row, you get a double fault, awarding the opponent with a point. Both result in an advantage given to the opposing team. The fault, however, is much easier to achieve given the obstacles and boundaries (a Net and box vs a person).

Rebuttals for argument 2

Baseball bat vs. racket

"If the batter wants a homerun, he will have to hit the ball close to the top of his bat, and to get a grounder, he will have to hit the ball close to the bottom of his bat."

True, but there is a similar point like this in tennis. Though you always strike the ball with same part of the racket, the WAY you strike it changes, much like the place you strike a pitch with the bat. If you want a to hit an overhead, you have to hit it like a serve. If you want to hit a forehand, you have to adjust the racket angle forewords. If you want a slice, you've got to adjust it backwards and change your stoke pattern. All of this has to be done during a rally with only seconds to make decisions for every stoke you take.

Tennis players strike the ball more than baseball players, and fatigue

"Batters must also be able to sprint at full speed, anywhere from 90 ft to 360 ft. "

Tennis players can sprint more then that in a single rally, never mind a whole match.

Rebuttals for argument 3

Fitness

"A sport that requires more of a specific quality than another sport does not mean it is more difficult. "

Fitness is a major factor in every sport. The fitness needed reflects the difficulty of the sport.

Rundown on respective athletes

"While tennis players may be more fit, it does now show that the game itself is more difficult"

I disagree. I think that the fitness of the athletes in a reflection the difficulty of their sports in terms of what the sports demand physically.

Re-rebuttals.

Yes the sports do use different mechanics, but that does not make them incomparable.

Arguments

Difficulty by Definition

This argument is going to be arguing that tennis is more “difficult” by definition.

Lets look at the definition of difficult:

"Needing much effort or skill to accomplish"

NOTE I will also be comparing a single tennis player to a single baseball player for this argument and assuming they won their respective matches to fulfill the "accomplish" portion of the definition

The key words here are effort, which, means "strenuous physical or mental exertion", and skill, which is "the ability to do something well". Those words are key to my argument.

You said it was true that tennis players move more and experience more fatigue in your rebuttal to "Tennis players strike the ball more than baseball players, and fatigue". This means, by definition, that they do put more effort in their sport then baseball players do because they go through more physical and mental exertion. Not saying that Baseball players don’t put in effort in baseball, but tennis player put more effort into their sport by definition.

The skill portion is a little tougher to distinguish. Both athletes are skilled, that’s undeniable. But lets talk about the skills that tennis players use to win a match in comparison to a baseball player.

Now, Which skills does each baseball player[s] bring to a match?

A controlled pitch (pitcher), they're fast, they can catch, and they can bat (Batter) and they have Hand eye coordination.

This goes for every player unless they are a designated pitcher or batter, which eliminates a few of those skills because they don’t use, or need, them.

Which skills does a tennis player bring to a match?

Speed, a serve, good ground strokes, endurance, Flexibility, and Hand eye coordination

They both have a large skill set, but here is my point:

Baseball players don't need all of those skills. If they are a pitcher, a batter, they can play without speed or a good catch as long as they are really good at batting or pitching, and vice versa. Also, sometimes they might not get the chance to utilize any of their skills. Example: the ball never gets to the far right outfielder due to the batter hitting left. But they have a man on the left field to cover the left but the right fielder is still left doing nothing. This is logical in a team sport but here I’m comparing the skills of one athlete from each sport to determine the individual difficulty,

Meanwhile a tennis player NEEDS to have all of their skills or else they are not going anywhere. If they can’t serve, they get "broken" every time. If they Cant hit a groundstroke, they can’t win a rally. If they are not fast, they get "aced" every time.

They need every skill to play a match. No skill is more important then another.

In other words, a baseball team is like a box with a bottle opener, a knife, a compass, and a corkscrew. Different players with different positions and skills: each adding a little bit to make a full team.

The tennis player however, is like a Swiss army knife; it has a bottle opener, a knife, a compass, and a corkscrew, all of the same quality as the baseball player, just all in one utensil instead of a box. Meaning that the one tennis athlete brings 100% of his/her skill 100% of the time.

So, back to the difficulty portion, the single tennis player brings and uses more skill then the single baseball player during a match.

Now look back to the definition

"Needing much effort or skill to accomplish "

Therefore, since we already determined that the tennis player brings more effort, and now more skill, we can say that the tennis player fulfills the definition of "difficult" more then the baseball player.

Argument 2

Solo sports vs. team sports and Mental Fatigue

In tennis you need to be at 100% of you game every time because its just you, no one else (unless your playing doubles). This means that if your having a bad day on the court, your going to suffer because you cant get any assistance from anyone nor can you be substituted off. In baseball, you got other men on the field so if your not at 100% of your game and are at, lets say, 75%, the other 8 people on the team can make up for you. Also, you have the option to be substituted off, taking you out of the equation completely.

Next is mental fatigue. Not only can your body get tired, but so can your mind. If you’re sprinting across a court for 2 hours, you start to become mentally weaker. This means you either are getting a little slower on your feet, you’re messing up some of your groundstroke, ECT. Baseball players don’t feel this because they simply don’t run enough to experience the same mental fatigue.

Argument 3

They ARE comparable

Though they differ in mechanics, the physical needs, which do change the difficulty of a sport, differ from the sports but they are far greater in tennis. A good example is body fitness. If tennis players didn’t need to be fit, they would not be. The fitness of the athletes reflects the physical needs of the sport. This relates back to my rebuttal and first argument in regards to the skills needed.

http://www.google.ca...

http://www.google.ca...

http://www.google.ca...=

1YPpU_6eDNSEyAS17YHwAQ#q=effort&rls=en


Vexorator

Con

Thanks to Pro and his arguments and rebuttals. While Pro's structure of rebuttals and arguments appears a bit disorganized, I will do my best to follow.

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RE-RE-REBUTTALS (PRO'S ARGUMENTS)

Argument 1:

There is no "net" in front of pitchers, so angles cannot be compared between the two sports, since there are no angles that pitchers must account for in baseball. The two sports do share the similar aspect of surface areas needed to be aimed for. The surface area of the "batter's range" is much smaller than half of a tennis court. There are no "faults" in baseball, so again, I do not see any comparisons that can be made.

Argument 2:

Baseball bat vs. racket
Baseball batters must bat a certain way, too. If there is a runner on first, they must strike early as to send the ball to the left of the field, because sending it to the center or right would more likely result in an out for the runner on first or for the batter.
Batters also only have seconds to respond to pitches. Batters do not know if the pitch will be a curveball, fastblall, changeup, etc. They must make a quick decision as to when and how they strike the ball, just like a tennis player.

Tennis players strike the ball more than baseball players, and fatigue

"Tennis players can sprint more then that in a single rally, never mind a whole match."
An amount of sprinting is different from the distance of sprinting. I said that baseball players must run at full speed from 90 ft to 360 ft, so I'm not sure where "tennis players can sprint more" came from. I said that baseball players sprint for longer distances at full speed, and that argument still stands.

Argument 3:

Fitness

"Fitness is a major factor in every sport."
Fitness is not a major factor in bowling.

"The fitness needed reflects the difficulty of the sport."
Bowling requires almost zero fitness. That does not make bowling easy. I'll use a simple syllogism to prove that what you said is false. For anyone who does not know, 'P' means premise, and 'C' means conclusion.

P1) The fitness needed reflects the difficulty of the sport.
P2) Bowling does not require fitness.
C1) Bowling is not difficult.

That is completely false. This also answers the Rundown on respective atheletes re-rebuttal.

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RE-REBUTTALS (MY ARGUMENTS)

You said re-rebuttals, but it's just rebuttals (to my argument).

Argument 1:

I did not say that different game mechanics means that sports are completely incomparable, just incomparable regarding difficulty.

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REBUTTALS (PRO'S NEW ARGUMENTS)

Argument 1:

You ignored mental exertion in your "effort" argument and only used physical exertion.

With your argument that tennis has more physical exertion, "effort," then you may as well say that bowling is effortless, since bowlers do not go through much physical exertion. I'll use a syllogism once again, in response to your argument:

P1) Tennis is difficult
P2) Something difficult requires effort
P3) Effort requires physical exertion
P4) Tennis requires more physical exertion than baseball
C1) Tennis is more difficult than baseball

This syllogism is invalid, starting at P3 because physical exertion is only one aspect of "effort."

Ah, so you've brought up the skill aspect. I can see where you are trying to go with this argument, but again, different game mechanics makes this argument impossible.

Baseball players don't need all of the skills that tennis requires, and tennis players don't need all of the skills that baseball requires.

Baseball players need all of their skills too if they want to be competitive, just like tennis players need their respective skills.

Baseball players bring 100% of theirs skills all of the time too.

I do not see how any of what you said can prove tennis to be more difficult than baseball.

Argument 2:

Solo sports and team sports fall into two different categories, so they cannot be compared by those aspects. It would be like comparing a bowler to a soccer player.

Yes, baseball players do feel mental fatigue too. Batters struggle to determine what the next pitch will be. Batters can be confused by things like the patterns and order of different pitches thrown at them, which can be mentally fatiguing.

Argument 3:

As I have shown earlier, yes, certain aspects of sports can be compared, but not difficulty as a whole. Not all sports require outstanding physical needs.

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Thanks again and I look forward to your rebuttals!




Debate Round No. 3
johnnydare

Pro

johnnydare forfeited this round.
Vexorator

Con

I enjoyed this debate very much, so I'm disappointed to see that my opponent was unavailable to post their final arguments.

I have nothing else to add, so all arguments extend.

Please vote Con.
Debate Round No. 4
10 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by ctown13 2 years ago
ctown13
Think about something for me. A baseball bat is round, a baseball is also round. Which makes it almost physically impossible to hit the baseball coming at a batter from such a short distance at such high speeds. Technically speaking the ball should just roll either over the top or the bottom of the bat. In order to hit a line drive, a pop out, or a grounder, and place it between the 8 players on the field (not counting the catcher) so that they cannot get an out or throw the runner out, is in itself one of the most difficult tasks out of most every sport there is. A tennis ball is round while the tennis racket is flat with much greater surface area, making it easier to hit the tennis ball. So all in all learning to be a very good hitter is much harder than learning to play tennis. And yes, it is difficult to hit a tennis ball with the right spin in the right spot on the tennis court, but to hit a baseball in the right spot in the field, whether it be to the opposite field of the batter (i.e. a right handed batter hitting the ball to the right side of the field) or it is to the same side (i.e. and right handed batter hitting to left side field), is one of the hardest jobs to do out of any sport. Making it much harder to do than play tennis.
Posted by Vexorator 2 years ago
Vexorator
So many votes for Pro despite his forfeiture?
Posted by dsjpk5 2 years ago
dsjpk5
The hardest thing in all of sports is to hit a baseball.
Posted by Vexorator 2 years ago
Vexorator
Yes. Rebut my rebuttals as "re-rebuttals," rebut my argument, then write any new arguments if you wish.
Posted by johnnydare 2 years ago
johnnydare
i*
Posted by johnnydare 2 years ago
johnnydare
Can a rebut a rebuttal?
Posted by Vexorator 2 years ago
Vexorator
Under Rebuttal for Argument 3, Rundown on respective athletes, "does now" is a typo. It is supposed to be "does not."

Apologies.
Posted by Vexorator 2 years ago
Vexorator
Alright. I look forward to your rebuttals in round 3.
Posted by johnnydare 2 years ago
johnnydare
any rebuttals and a conclusion. sorry, I forgot to mention that before.
Posted by Vexorator 2 years ago
Vexorator
Will round 4 be conclusions only, or rebuttals only, or rebuttals and conclusion?
4 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Vote Placed by 9spaceking 2 years ago
9spaceking
johnnydareVexoratorTied
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Total points awarded:01 
Reasons for voting decision: Ff
Vote Placed by superbowl9 2 years ago
superbowl9
johnnydareVexoratorTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: FF
Vote Placed by lannan13 2 years ago
lannan13
johnnydareVexoratorTied
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Total points awarded:24 
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeiture
Vote Placed by dsjpk5 2 years ago
dsjpk5
johnnydareVexoratorTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro ff a round, so conduct to con. Since he did so, con's arguments from the previous round are dropped, so arguments to con.