The Instigator
Weatherwatcher
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
ConservativePolitico
Con (against)
Winning
22 Points

Texas could becomes its own nation

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 5 votes the winner is...
ConservativePolitico
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/11/2012 Category: Politics
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 3,542 times Debate No: 20342
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (4)
Votes (5)

 

Weatherwatcher

Pro

I put in very simple context, that Texas could become its own nation for several reasons as listed below
1 Texas has one of the best economies in The United States of America
2 with strong allies in Mexico, Texas could easily gain support for an independence movement
3 Texas, has a Governor, Rick Perry, who could lead the state of Texas into the delicate process of establishing a new nation.
These are just a few reasons, Simply to establish the base of the Argument.
ConservativePolitico

Con

I accept this debate. I will be arguing that Texas could not become it's own nation.

Texas - the largest state in the mainland United States
nation - an independent autonomous country

These are the definitions I'm assuming you mean.

I welcome you to take the opening arguments further in Round Two since I am using this round for acceptance only.

Thank you.
Debate Round No. 1
Weatherwatcher

Pro

Thank you for accepting this Challenge, and yes those were the definitions I was leaning towards , Texas is as you stated before the Largest state in Mainland USA, for this reason Texas's economy would have the capability to surpass America's Economy with its own, doing more Exporting then Importing, because Texas is such a large state, it has a largely diverse climate, meaning Texas would have All Capabilities to survive on its own without any help from an county around it...
ConservativePolitico

Con

Unfortunately there are major flaws in your arguments.

Economy

The Texas economy is 36th out of 50 overall.

Their debt per capita $8,711
8.3% unemployment
25% of adults do not have high school diplomas (50th)
[1]

You claim that Texas could stand on its own economically outside of the United States and that they might even surpass the United States when this is simply false.

Texas's Gross "National" Product on the international scale is 15th overall but is second in the US by state. [2]

The GNP of the US was $12 trillion in 2011 (adjusted) [3] while Texas's GNP was $1.3 trillion, 1/12th of the total US economy. The claim that Texas could surpass the US economy is unrealistic.

Texas could not survive without any help from other countries. No country is self sufficient.

Secession

The United States government set a huge precedent in 1860 when they fought a long and bloody war to prevent states from leaving the Union. In order to become it's own country Texas would have to secede from the United States something that is not possible.

"I hold, that in contemplation of universal law, and of the Constitution, the Union of these States is perpetual." - Abe Lincoln

This precedent and view that the Union is perpetual was strongly set at the cost of hundreds of thousands of lives. The United States would go to war (if necessary) to keep Texas in the Union, a war that Texas would not be able to weather.

Simply put, Texas's economy is not as good as my opponent claims it to be and leaving the Union would be impossible.

The resolution reads "Texas could becomes its own nation" [sic] and I have shown that Texas cannot become its own nation.

Thank you.


[1] http://www.theatlantic.com...
[2] http://en.wikipedia.org...
[3] http://www.data360.org...
Debate Round No. 2
Weatherwatcher

Pro

Really, well there are also some flaws in your argument, Texas's Economy is ranked as the 2nd largest economy in the United States of America, Without Texas,America's Economy would sink, Furthermore, Texas has the second largest Population in America, second only to that of California, so if Texas, due to its ability in the 10th Amendment of the American Constitution, required all Men ages 18 and up to have Military Training, and be called into the ranks in times of war, Texas would be able to stand up to America, and secede,Thank you
http://www.usatoday.com...
ConservativePolitico

Con

Yes, I already stated that Texas's economy was the second largest in the United States but even if it took its 1.3 trillion and walked that would leave the US with 10 trillion in GNP still. [1][3] While this would certaintly strike a blow to the US economy it would not as you say "sink" it.

The oil and shipping industry would merely move over into New Orleans.

Also your arguments seem to be based around the idea that Texas could take on any other single state on its own which is the case but militarily and economically it simply cannot stand up to the full might of all 49 remaining US states together.

The US has 1.5 million active military personel [4] that take an oath to protect the United States and its Constitution during service. Even if Texas required military service they would be in service to the United States and not to the state of Texas meaning that this point is moot. This idea might have fit in 200 years ago in the early 1800's but now days state patriotism is much lower and very few people would choose to fight for Texas over the United States.

The arguments stand.


[1] http://www.theatlantic.com......
[2] http://en.wikipedia.org......
[3] http://www.data360.org......
[4] http://en.wikipedia.org...
Debate Round No. 3
Weatherwatcher

Pro

Weatherwatcher forfeited this round.
ConservativePolitico

Con

Unfortunately my opponent has forfeited.

Extend arguments.
Debate Round No. 4
Weatherwatcher

Pro

Weatherwatcher forfeited this round.
ConservativePolitico

Con

I'm sorry my opponent chose to give up rather than finish this good debate.

Thank you.
Debate Round No. 5
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by 16kadams 5 years ago
16kadams
you
Posted by ConservativePolitico 5 years ago
ConservativePolitico
Nice, who's winning? :P
Posted by 16kadams 5 years ago
16kadams
I lived in fort worth.
Posted by 16kadams 5 years ago
16kadams
lol
5 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Vote Placed by wmpeebles 5 years ago
wmpeebles
WeatherwatcherConservativePoliticoTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: Con was able to defeat Pro in pretty much every aspect. Pro had the BOP and did not really prove anything.
Vote Placed by 16kadams 5 years ago
16kadams
WeatherwatcherConservativePoliticoTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: FF
Vote Placed by mongeese 5 years ago
mongeese
WeatherwatcherConservativePoliticoTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: With forfeits and relative lack of sources, obvious vote is obvious.
Vote Placed by Maikuru 5 years ago
Maikuru
WeatherwatcherConservativePoliticoTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro's argument were underdeveloped and included multiple forfeits.
Vote Placed by thett3 5 years ago
thett3
WeatherwatcherConservativePoliticoTied
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Total points awarded:01 
Reasons for voting decision: <3