The Instigator
mongeese
Con (against)
Winning
33 Points
The Contender
Xer
Pro (for)
Losing
28 Points

"Thank you and good luck to whomever accepts the debate..."

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 9 votes the winner is...
mongeese
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/19/2009 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 4,269 times Debate No: 8711
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (35)
Votes (9)

 

mongeese

Con

http://www.debate.org...

"Thank you and good luck to whomever accepts the debate, I look forward to your rebuttal."

Resolved: "Whomever" is grammatically appropriately used in the sentence above, and should not be replaced with "whoever."

My opponent claims that the usage of "whomever" is correct, but I disagree.

The debate will start in Round 2. Thank you and good luck.
Xer

Pro

I accept. Thank you and good luck.
Debate Round No. 1
mongeese

Con

All right, then.

http://web.ku.edu...

Two sentences verified to be grammatically correct:
"I decided to vote for whoever called me first."
"Give it to whoever deserves it."

Now compare it to the first sentence fragment:
"[I wish] good luck to whomever accepts the debate..."

All three sentences follow the following structure:
[Subject] [Verb] [Object] [Preposition] whoever [Verb] [Object].

Here is Professor Gibson's explanation:
"It's 'whoever' in both cases. Even though you can read the first sentence as 'I decided to vote for him' (which would make it 'whomever'), the entire phrase '(he) called me first' is the object of the preposition 'for.' So, it's 'whoever.' It's the same for the second example: '...he deserves it' wins out."

http://web.ku.edu...

Finally, just copy and paste the following sentence into Microsoft Word:
"Thank you and good luck to whomever accepts the debate, I look forward to your rebuttal."
The green underline will appear beneath "whomever," and you will be prompted to replace it with "whoever."

Therefore, I have the support of both Professor Gibson (http://web.ku.edu...) and Microsoft's grammar team to negate the resolution.

Vote CON.
Xer

Pro

-My opponent has proved that I am right, and for that, I thank him.

"Two sentences verified to be grammatically correct:
"I decided to vote for whoever called me first."
"Give it to whoever deserves it."

Now compare it to the first sentence fragment:
"[I wish] good luck to whomever accepts the debate..."

All three sentences follow the following structure:
[Subject] [Verb] [Object] [Preposition] whoever [Verb] [Object]."

---Whoever is subjective, while whomever is objective.
(See Con's source)
---My opponent has shown that whomever would work in the situation. Professor Gibson would not agree with your grammar in this situation. Therefore, the resolution is affirmed, vote Pro.

Also, my opponent said: "Therefore, I have the support of ... Microsoft's grammar team to negate the resolution." This is a blatant lie. The evidence is in the picture below. If the Microsoft grammar team agreed with my opponent, there would be a squiggly green line under "whomever". This is not the case.
http://i39.tinypic.com...

On a side note--- Who whines this much about the difference between whoever and whomever... seriously?

---I look forward to my opponent's rebuttal. Although, this silly debate should be 1 or 2 rounds, not 3. Thanks for the opportunity to debate anyway.
Debate Round No. 2
mongeese

Con

My opponent quotes me, and then adds that "whomever" is objective. However, we're looking for the subjective, because the "whoever/whomever" is the subject of the phrase, "whoever accepts this debate." It may also be the object of the verb "thank," but according to Professor Gibson, in such a case, the subjective overrides the objective.

http://web.ku.edu...
"Remember every verb needs a subject (the implied 'you' is the subject of 'ask'), and subjects of sentences are always in the nominative case. Therefore, in the question about whether it's 'whoever' or 'whomever,' it's gotta be 'he' (or 'she'). So, 'whoever' (nominative case) is correct.
"This rule supersedes all other rules as it relates to 'who' and 'whom.'"

He doesn't explain how this helps him. He just says that it does. The structure that all three sentences should follow uses "whoever," not "whomever," as he apparently thinks. However, it is "whoever." Professor Gibson is STILL on my side.

Finally, my opponent uses a picture from Microsoft Word that supposedly proves him right. Wrong.

http://www.debate.org...

See my link to my own picture. Microsoft Word is clearly prompting a change from "whomever" to "whomever."

Now, you may be confused about how my opponent was able to get his picture, despite the opposition from Microsoft Word. Simple. He ran the Spell Check, but hit "Ignore" every single time he was asked to change something, so that the result would look as if Microsoft Word was perfectly okay with his sentence, even though it is grammatically incorrect. See my second link. There's no way that those two sentences are grammatically correct.

http://www.debate.org...

"On a side note--- Who whines this much about the difference between whoever and whomever... seriously?"
It's not whining. It's debating.

"---I look forward to my opponent's rebuttal. Although, this silly debate should be 1 or 2 rounds, not 3. Thanks for the opportunity to debate anyway."
Ah, but if this was only two rounds, I would not have been able to expose your fraud picture or point out the flaws of your logic.

Professor Gibson and the Microsoft Word grammar team both negate the resolution. Therefore, vote CON.

Thank you for participating.
Xer

Pro

My opponent babbled a lot in the previous round, he didn't really offer anything new to counter...

I don't know what he did to Word.... but he knows hacks.

Professor Gibson supports me... and so does Word.

Vote Pro.

Thank you for wasting precious minutes in my life.
Debate Round No. 3
35 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Xer 7 years ago
Xer
SHENANIGANS.

Now I'm losing.
Posted by mongeese 7 years ago
mongeese
Contradictory.

We know that there have been ten votes, and 68 points, so this could only be explained by a 5-point vote and nine 7-point votes, or two 6-point votes and eight 7-point votes. A 3-point vote is quite impossible, and a 3-point vote is what Nags has claimed to have done.

Now, why did you give yourself five/seven (probably seven) points on a debate that you knew you didn't actually win?
Posted by Xer 7 years ago
Xer
No.
Posted by mongeese 7 years ago
mongeese
Question: Did you give any points to CON?
Posted by Xer 7 years ago
Xer
Your math doesn't take into account people who gave some points for Pro and some points for Con.
Posted by mongeese 7 years ago
mongeese
The math:

Seventy points possible.
Sixty-eight points total.
There were five to seven points from every vote, with either one five-vote or two six-votes, with all others being seven-votes.
Nags claims to have only had three points from his vote.
This contradicts reality.
Posted by studentathletechristian8 7 years ago
studentathletechristian8
Mongeese: The score was 33-35. If you take away Nag's vote for himself, the score is 33-32. The total points would be 65 with 9 votes deciding those 65 votes. (I said 9 votes instead of 10 because I am taking Nags's vote away) The maximum points that can be allotted are 7 per voter. 9 times 7 is 63, which represents the total possible points that could have been given in the debate. That leaves two votes unaccounted for...
Posted by Xer 7 years ago
Xer
You're assuming that everybody gave all of their points to either Con or Pro.
Posted by mongeese 7 years ago
mongeese
You should realize that what you just said is completely impossible, as ten votes can only give seventy points total, and a vote that is only worth three points would result in a total of sixty-seven points, while our total is sixty-eight.
Posted by Xer 7 years ago
Xer
Just Convincing Arguments.
9 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 9 records.
Vote Placed by MTGandP 7 years ago
MTGandP
mongeeseXerTied
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Vote Placed by LipstickandLightplay 7 years ago
LipstickandLightplay
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Vote Placed by studentathletechristian8 7 years ago
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Vote Placed by untitled_entity 7 years ago
untitled_entity
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Vote Placed by wjmelements 7 years ago
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Vote Placed by mongoose 7 years ago
mongoose
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Vote Placed by rougeagent21 7 years ago
rougeagent21
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Vote Placed by Xer 7 years ago
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Vote Placed by mongeese 7 years ago
mongeese
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