The Instigator
Nicladom
Pro (for)
Losing
3 Points
The Contender
CALife
Con (against)
Winning
24 Points

That much of the world is offended by U.S. attitudes and ideas

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/10/2010 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,462 times Debate No: 10783
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (5)
Votes (4)

 

Nicladom

Pro

Wider than just politics, excluding current wars/conflicts, I sense there is a "why do they hate us?" feeling in American society; not restricted to any particular group or nation nor to the recent past... more than a simple resentment for the Big Kid in the playground.
Is the USA guilty of ongoing hegemony? Is cultural imperialism fact or fiction? Are Americans as insular as ever and do they care what the ROW thinks?

Here then, a couple of silly (yet significant) examples to support my thesis -

'Paris, France' - who needs to be told that Paris is in fact a French city; not to be confused with Paris,Texas. One predates the other by a mere 2000 years and is a cultural world treasure; the other is, well.......
Do Americans get how arrogant this makes them look to folks outside USA?

Dan Brown's Da Vinci Code (I know, trivial mass entertainment) states "Tuilleries at Versailles as Paris' version of Central Park". Funny, that- Central Park came 200 years after the Tuilleries??? Lazy writing or mere ignorance?

Whenever I see The President talking about 'the war on terror' he always refers to protecting America's way of life... fair enough. Yet its as if the ROW does not exist; many other countries are also threatened, including America's allies but they rarely get acknowledgment.

American society needs to take a long hard look at its greedy self interest; seriously reduce its per capita consumption of resources and adopt a 'fair shares' policy toward the less consumer driven countries.

I contend that the USA must lose its arrogance & show more respect for other cultures in this rapidly changing world of economic and military power.
"When China wakes, the whole world will tremble..." is rapidly coming to pass;
Europe and India are following; can America and its waning influence (and industries) afford to continue in its traditional ways?
CALife

Con

'Paris, France' - who needs to be told that Paris is in fact a French city; not to be confused with Paris,Texas. One predates the other by a mere 2000 years and is a cultural world treasure; the other is, well.......
Do Americans get how arrogant this makes them look to folks outside USA?

This argument is about the US naming a city after Paris? I fail to see the arrogance here, if anything they would be happy we admire their city and 2000 years of "cultural treasure".

Dan Brown's Da Vinci Code (I know, trivial mass entertainment) states "Tuilleries at Versailles as Paris' version of Central Park". Funny, that- Central Park came 200 years after the Tuilleries??? Lazy writing or mere ignorance?

You fail to realize the difference between Hollywood and real life... You found a spoof in a movie. What? Do you want a cookie?

Whenever I see The President talking about 'the war on terror' he always refers to protecting America's way of life... fair enough. Yet its as if the ROW does not exist; many other countries are also threatened, including America's allies but they rarely get acknowledgment.

You hear mostly about US troops because your in the US, if you lived else where you'd be hearing about that nations army's and events.

American society needs to take a long hard look at its greedy self interest; seriously reduce its per capita consumption of resources and adopt a 'fair shares' policy toward the less consumer driven countries.

If you want this, give up your internet, your computer, your house, most of your income and donate it to charity's. You cant ask the common person to give up what they RIGHTFULLY earned just to make it "fair" life isn't "fair", get used to it.

America was based off a free market system, the strive for a better product and a richer lifestyle is what drives American economics. You also fail to realize that the US donates more to foreign aid then other any other country. Yes, it may be a small amount depending on how wealthy we are but why do we have to pick up the burden of fixing the failures of other country's? Also, I think we should stop donating money to other country until our poverty level goes down and we fix the problems in THIS country.
Debate Round No. 1
Nicladom

Pro

Sorry to All for delays - my system has been locking up using Firefox; seems OK so far in IE.

My 'examples' were admitted as being a bit 'silly' but I was making the point that USA is unique in this
terminology; I have not encountered any other country that feels the need to annotate 'Paris, France"
nor 'London, England' nor 'Sydney, Australia' since to thinking people these names are unique and need
no explanation... this creates (IMO) the impression that Americans really are insular and the World ends
at their country's borders. Well, that's overstating the case, I admit; yet it is said that a small proportion
of Americans own a passport relative to other countries... I have seen values from 10-20% but don't have
authenticated figures.

Da Vinci code... the book, not the movie! (see the word "read"?). Thanks for the generous offer of a cookie
but I would prefer a biscuit. I agree wholeheartedly about Hollywood; that wonderful institution regularly
re-writes history whilst claiming 'based on real events'... (remember the film about a U.S. vessel capturing
a German U-Boat with the Enigma Code machine?) Damn, I thought that was a British vessel...

Actually I'm NOT in USA yet I do see Pres. Obama speaking exactly as I have indicated - the best president
since JFK, by the way! America has hope with him in charge; at last an intellectual Chief, after the morons of
recent years.

Here is where I got REALLY CONTENTIOUS; I admit, I was trying to provoke a response- and was I successful!
It is not just America that needs to look at its consumption; so do all the First World countries, including mine.
However, USA consumes 25% of World energy for only 3.5% of its population... THAT I am not unjustified in
terming greedy & selfish.

Since you don't understand the concept of fairness I assume you feel it OK to grab as much as you can devour, then?
Free market economics is indeed the best way to generate wealth but NOT the best way to distribute it... your recent
prime mortgage fiasco demonstrated that very well, did it not? Unbridled, uncontrolled greed by bankers and mortgage
brokers intent on filling their pockets at everyone else's expense! Ask the unfortunate folks who lost their homes &
savings how they feel about the Free Market and I think they won't be quite as positive as you...
Human nature tends to greed, naturally and its not entirely a negative; BUT.. it needs checks & balances to prevent
just what happened recently.
There seems to be more attention paid to Keynesian economics as a result, with its more 'humanitarian' version of
economic theory; well & good to talk of "rightfully earned" but that makes no allowance for those who cannot aspire
to high earnings, the disabled or other disadvantaged groups in American society. You rightly point out that 'charity
begins at home' and Obama is trying to re-balance society so everybody has access to good health care; this must
entail redistribution of wealth. To my mind Americans have long paid too little for motor fuel ('gas') to you and were
it taxed at an average World rate, then (1) consumption would decrease and (2) taxes collected would pay for the
best healthcare system for all Americans rather than the super rich favoured few. Otherwise your poverty levels will
not (magically) go down.
As to your comment re 'the common person' being rewarded for hard work- what's wrong with taxing the Paris (not
France!) Hilton types heavily as they certainly have done nothing to earn their rewards?

As for me giving up various material benefits, well, know this- I don't drive a 6 litre gas guzzler; (don't drive at all, in
fact); don't own a boat, live in a 35 sq m apartment, have modest living requirements and don't miss much of the
trappings of life so valued in many rich countries. Nor do I feel the need to "get used to it" which, to me indicates you
have the very attitude I am criticising in your country. Nothing personal, just pointing this out to you...

PS There is a spell checker below....
CALife

Con

I fail to see how passports have anything to do with the US attitudes and ideas. Why would travel have anything to do with US attitudes and ideas? Especially now since the economy will not allow people to travel.

Da Vinci code is a book, for entertainment. I'm sure there are historically accurate facts in that book but give me a break, its a book. There are a lot of books that bend the truth.... and the book is listed under fiction, if your looking for facts in that maybe you should put down fiction novels and read non fiction. Moreover, just because he is comparing two things doesn't mean he is saying one came before or after another, your merely looking for argumentative content where there is none.

Do you know who Barack Obama is? He is the President of the United States of AMERICA, not the king or prime minister of another country. Of course he is going to talk about how AMERICANS are performing when he talks to AMERICANS. Its not our fault your news stations publish/air the material, I don't ever hear your prime minister/queen/president, talk about American troops... where is our recognition from the UK? Don't be a hypocrite.

Greedy and selfish? We EARNED our cash and wealth. Our system is based of a social contract and a version of democracy and it worked, its not our fault other poor nations don't follow the same trend as us. And you forget to realize THE US DONATES MORE MONEY/SUPPLIES THEN ANOTHER COUNTRY IN THE WORLD. How's that for being greedy?

Oh and Paris Hilton inherited her money from her father, who worked his butt off to build a company and ensure financial stability for his family (this would include his daughter Paris) among other reasons. And there is an inheritance tax. And a tax of over 50% on the wealthy.

With gas, the US buys gas at world market prices, just if you didn't know that. And much of US gas comes from off shore drilling rigs and Alaskan supplies.

Did you know well fair has its own insurance? That's right, the poor have insurance. And they get help from the Government in may different ways, also by non profit organizations such as the red cross.
But I don't see where this ties into your argument subject so I wont go much into this.

Oh and the Red Cross, who is one of the largest non profitable organizations and provide aid to the rest of the world, was founded in the US.

And thank you for the spell check even though I didn't spell anything wrong. You might be talking about my grammar, if that is the case you shouldn't be because you had more grammatical errors then me.

The world is greedy, that is what drive economics my friends, without entrepreneurship there would be no civil modern world. Without greed and competition to be the best and have the best, technology wouldn't have progressed this far. Also, no one in Europe is justified in calling Americans "greedy" because your history is filled and rattled with greedy selfish people such as queens and kings. But im not going to complain about it because it is what drives society. But to much is what hurts society and economics such in the case of communism.

What your proposing (the US distributing the wealth) is reaching close to communism my friend, and every communist country lives in poverty and or has failed. Maybe the US should just take over the world and everyone would be just as wealthy as us eh?
Debate Round No. 2
Nicladom

Pro

Ever hear the expression "Travel broadens the mind"? Ergo, lack of passport might indicate small mindedness/ insularity; really, I shouldn't have to explain everything.

What ARE you talking about? Who can't know who Barack Obama is? What in my reply gave you this impression? The whole world is familiar with him. You seem to think the world outside USA is wholly ignorant of American affairs; nothing is further from the truth! Doesn't this support my impression of your insularity?
American troops are universally applauded for the sacrifices they are making in Afghanistan, Iraq and other trouble spots; its on TV here all the time but obviously you don't get to see it! Perhaps if you travelled more?

Gas- you are ill informed, again; the vast bulk of it comes to America from the Middle East, Saudi Arabia in particular.
Check your facts if you want to be taken seriously; see *below, also.

I was referring to taxation, not the international price of crude oil. But not to worry. In the context of wealth redistribution in the USA, not elsewhere. I was acknowledging your country as having the greatest gap between rich and poor of any nation on Earth and how it might be addressed, for the benefit of AMERICANS. Nothing to do with aid to other nations. The USA does NOT donate more than anyone else when measured per capita- which is the only honest way to measure generosity.

Basic health care is a function of Government in all advanced countries except yours; you pay taxes and should expect your Government to support you when you need it most. Which is more important, war or healthcare? Charities and insurance (for those who can afford it) play their part but Obama is rightly trying to accept his Government's dues and I applaud him for it.

Please READ my replies... I have already agreed that Capitalism is the best way to generate wealth so we have NO disagreement there. My issue is with what is being termed 'Extreme Economics' that is, the system you are so devoted to; I note you made no comment about the U.S. generated Prime Mortgage fiasco and ensuing Global Financial Crisis which resulted in massive costs to the U.S. economy and almost brought the World financial system to total collapse??
No answer, then- cat got your tongue?
National Debt is a scandal in America- you boast about the riches generated by the Free Market yet your country is almost bankrupt; how does that gell with "The world's richest nation"?
Communism is a failed idealism; all idealistic theories will fail, eventually, in the real world. I never mentioned it and you are drawing a very long bow to do so.

WRONG about the *Red Cross-
< Dunant organized local people to bind the soldiers' wounds and to feed and comfort them. On his return, he called for the creation of national relief societies to assist those wounded in war, and pointed the way to the future Geneva Conventions.
"Would there not be some means, during a period of peace and calm, of forming relief societies whose object would be to have the wounded cared for in time of war by enthusiastic, devoted volunteers, fully qualified for the task?" he wrote.
The Red Cross was born in 1863 when five Geneva men, including Dunant, set up the International Committee for Relief to the Wounded, later to become the International Committee of the Red Cross.>>

The American Red Cross was founded in 1881. ANOTHER example of an American (you) re-writing history...

Your final comment "Maybe the US should just take over the world and everyone would be just as wealthy as us eh?" proves my case better than I EVER could; HEGEMONY is alive and well in the good ol' U. S. of A. According to you at least.

I therefore ask voters to affirm the contention that "Much of the World is offended by American attitudes and ideas"
CALife

Con

I'm sorry in the heat of my conversation and my devout patriotism for my country I have lost sight of the argument here. And my apologies for that.

Now to what really matters, the statics

"

55%
Percentage of respondents who answered "very favourable" or "fairly favourable" when asked how they felt towards America, with Canadians second in line for the most favourable responses (after respondents in the U.S., of course). Overall, 37 per cent of respondents answered "very unfavourable" or "fairly unfavourable."

"
Keep in mind several country's and around 1000people from each were interviewed for this.

Source: http://www.cbc.ca...

"
United States is the most admired country in the world. The U.S. nabbed the top spot of this year's National Brand Index (NBI), which ranks countries by how admired they are globally, up from number seven last year:
"

Source: http://thinkprogress.org...

If you go to this website, http://www.guardian.co.uk..., click on a survey results ---> Americans Good or Bad?, you will see an average of 68 percent of people have a favorable opinion of Americans.

And I lay my case to rest. Few may have unfavorable opinions of the US, but the majority considers us favorable.
Debate Round No. 3
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by CALife 7 years ago
CALife
Wtf is wrong with Con...?

Explain.

Debate is off topic.

Tell me about it....
Posted by wjmelements 7 years ago
wjmelements
Debate is off topic.
Posted by Xer 7 years ago
Xer
Wtf is wrong with Con...?
Posted by brian_eggleston 7 years ago
brian_eggleston
Nice debate...watches with interest from London (the one in England!)
Posted by Volkov 7 years ago
Volkov
Change the voting period to a month and I'll accept this.
4 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Vote Placed by Grape 7 years ago
Grape
NicladomCALifeTied
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Vote Placed by kingofslash5 7 years ago
kingofslash5
NicladomCALifeTied
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Vote Placed by MrHardRock 7 years ago
MrHardRock
NicladomCALifeTied
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Vote Placed by CALife 7 years ago
CALife
NicladomCALifeTied
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