The Instigator
masterzanzibar
Pro (for)
Winning
11 Points
The Contender
ChristianM
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

That, on balance, the rise of Brazil, Russia, India, and China has had a positive impact on the US

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
masterzanzibar
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/15/2009 Category: Politics
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,931 times Debate No: 7857
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (1)
Votes (2)

 

masterzanzibar

Pro

I Affirm with three contentions

I.Rise of Brazil has lead to strong U.S. Brazil relations, solving for South American Terrorism.
II.Rise of China has been key to protecting the United States from Nuclear war and Nuclear Terrorism.
III.Rise of China has prevented a rising power from overturning Western Order.

analysis of the resolution:
Since human life is what the United States is comprised of, any impact articulating on the prevention of the loss of human lives should be looked to as the most important impact in this round. .

Contention 1- Rise of Brazil has been key to U.S./Brazil Relations through ethanol exports.
Subpoint A- Relations through Ethanol
The U.S. and Brazil have dramatically increased a relationship that has, and will immensely benefit the U.S. for years to come. This relationship, according to experts is based primarily on ethanol exports and trade. According to Mcmullen in 2007 "[The United States signed a memorandum with brazil for greater cooperation on ethanol and biofuels. This agreement has created a partnership to work bilaterally on research and exchanges… increasing compatibility.]" The rise of Brazil, and its economy goes hand in hand with the increase of ethanol exports to the U.S. In other words, the economic rise of Brazil has been key to U.S. brazil relations.
Subpoint B- Benefits of this Relationship.
Past and current benefits of these relationships are completely transparent. Not only has Brazil aided the U.S. with biofuel energy needs, but this partnership has also been key in fighting the war on drugs. According to the New York Times in 2009, "because of pressure from the U.S., Brazil has begun shooting down aircraft used in trafficking illegal drugs in its airspace. The U.S. is scheduled to provide Brazil with 10.2 million dollars in drug and law enforcement aid this year, aiding immensely to the war on drugs"
Additionally, it is clear that this relationship will aid U.S. national Security indefinitely through solving for South American terrorism. According to the American Center for Democracy in 2007, South America is an increasing hotbed for terrorism, and is a uniquely underreported terrorist threat. "Groups such as hamas, hezbollah, Al-qaida, and al-jihad are becoming increasingly more active in South America." To avoid this threat, relations are key. According to Urbancic in 06' "Relations within south America are key for checking back terrorist threats. Only through bilateral and multilateral agreements [In South America] can we stop the next terrorist attack on U.S. soil."

Contention 2- Rise of China has been key to protecting the United States from Nuclear war and Nuclear Terrorism.
Because of the rise of the Chinese economy, the Chinese government has immensely increased its geopolitical influence throughout Asia and the United Nations. This influence according to experts has been instrumental in ensuring global safety from nuclear weapons. According to Hachigian and Sutphen in 08'"since the mid- 1990s, China has greatly improved control over the flow of sensitive technologies, signed bilateral agreements with the United States, and has joined over half a dozen international nuclear conventions. China was instrumental in felling the most notorious nuclear swap meet of our time, run by Pakistani scientist A. Q. Khan." Because china was instrumental in this act, countries such as Pakistan, Iran, and North Korea do not have the nuclear proliferations technologies that they would today. According to Clawson in 05' "stopping Iran short of achieving nuclear status is a vital US interest… They are unrelentingly hostile to the United States, and they have attacked U.S. forces repeatedly, the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction [In Iran] poses the most serious threat to U.S. national security." China's rise, has immensely aided the United States in avoiding a nuclear attack of catastrophic proportions.

Contention 3- Rise of China has prevented a rising power from overturning Western Order.
According to Ikenberry in 2008 "the fact that the United States, China, and other great powers have nuclear weapons also limits the ability of a rising power to overturn the existing order. In the age of nuclear deterrence, great-power war is, thankfully, no longer a mechanism of historical change. War-driven change has been abolished as a historical process." Conclusively we can see that allowing China to gain power has only furthered U.S. ideologies.
ChristianM

Con

Definitions:
GDP: Gross domestic product is one of the measures of national income and input for a given country's economy. GDP is defined as the total cost of all finished goods and services produced within the country in a stipulated period of time.

C1-Brazil
Brazil has a history of high inflation, high interest rates and high import duties which contributed to the bad US economy. Also major drug trafficking occurs from Brazil. Many drug gangs have their origins in Brazil and escape capture their for many years. Recently it took 100 police forces in Brazil to finally capture a mere 35 drug traders. So with people buying drugs from Brazil money is not flowing in the American economy further contributing to America's economic decline. Also Brazil, a Latin American superpower, has been plagued by political corruption and seems to be surrounded by many of the strongest socialistic governments in the word, such as the ones in Venezuela and Bolivia. How can we trade with a corrupt government? This could on a international scale make America seem corrupt itself. Additionally if a government has corruption it can not be trusted so trading with Brazil is and obvious mistake. Furthermore Brazil is also one of the top ten countries America imports oil from. By continue to sell huge amounts of oil to us Brazil is helping in keeping America addicted to oil proving once again that it is detrimental to the United States of America.

C2-Russia
One of Russia's big negatives is organized crime. And with Russia's immigrating to America organized crime is on the rise. With crime rising police are extra busy and to prevent officers from working to much cities often have to hire new officers whose salaries is paid through taxes causing an increase in both crime and taxes. Russian diplomacy had been described as secretive and suspicious, untrustworthy, and displaying unusual hostility toward the Western powers. If Russia can not be trusted who is to say that they won't eventually turn on the United States. Therefore Russia has in fact not had a positive impact on the United States

C3-India
India, in spite of being a strong democracy for the last 60 years, has had internal conflicts that are based on caste, religion, ethnicity, and language. Its troubled relationship with its nuclear neighbor Pakistan and the militancy in Kashmir continue to distract the government and its resources in that country. If it is too focused on internal conflict or its neighbors it could not possible have time to contribute positively to the United States thereby proving that it can not contribute positively to the United States.

C4-China
A new study has found that the United States' growing trade deficit with China has had an increasingly negative impact on the U.S. economy, causing job losses that reach into the most technologically advanced industries in the manufacturing sector and affect every state, according to a January 11 press release by the U.S.-China Economic and Security Review Commission (USCC). By effecting America's economy negatively it has impacted America negatively henceforth it had not positively impacted America.

C5-Overall detriment
All the four BRIC countries: a) are among the top seven largest countries in land area, b) among the top eight most populous countries (accounting for about 40 percent of the world population), c) among the ten biggest economies in terms of GDP purchasing power parity and d) are among the top fourteen biggest economies in terms of nominal GDP. Russia and China are also part of the five permanent members of the U.N. Security Council and the two of them, along with India, possess nuclear capabilities. America owes China 585 billion dollars, Brazil 141.9 billion dollars, Russia 69.7 billion and India 14.2 billions in debt. Predatory trade, especially as practiced by China, has led to more than 3.3 million U.S. manufacturing job losses since the beginning of 2001. China's illegal undervaluing of its currency combined with its peg to the U.S. dollar gives China's manufacturers a substantial competitive advantage over their U.S. competitors. Not only is China's cheating costing U.S. manufacturer's market share, it also is discouraging investment in manufacturing in the United States, and this lack of investment is contributing to weakness of the U.S. economy. Furthermore China remains a communist country, while Russia is slowly crawling out of its communist USSR past. Each one of the G7 countries is a matured democracy with free press, free elections, and the guarantee of free speech. Some of the BRIC countries have a long way to go in assuring these freedoms and a lack of these freedoms will be detrimental to the world population. So as one can see BRIC had not positively impacted the United States and in some case negatively impacted it.
Debate Round No. 1
masterzanzibar

Pro

NC-->AC
C1- AFF SAYS:"Brazil has a history of high inflation, high interest rates and high import duties which contributed to the bad US economy."

How? how has this impacted the u.s. economy. The united states has received cheap goods for years from Brazil, which has one of the most stable economies within south America. furthermore, when referring to the Goldman Sachs report ( those who coined the term BRIC) it states that Brazil, along with the three other nations have perhaps the fastest growing economies in the world. SO, if their economy is in fact improving exponentially, doesn't this negate your argument?
AS:"Also major drug trafficking occurs from Brazil"

Quite indisputable, however, if you look to the AC R1, I talk about how the rise of this nation has lead to efforts in combating drug cartels and the overall drug trade, culminating in an increase of the regulation of drug trades between US and Brazil. Additionally, with Brazil's increase in geopolitical influence in that region, they continue to be the hegemon in S.A.. meaning that they have a heavy influence on international trade in S.A., it is far better for them to have that control than Colombia or Chavez in Venezuela that we are not here to debate whether or not bad or good things happen in these nations, we are here to debate whether the rise in BRIC economies has made the status quo better or worse than it would have been without their rise for America.

AS: "Also Brazil, a Latin American superpower, has been plagued by political corruption and seems to be surrounded by many of the strongest socialistic governments in the word, such as the ones in Venezuela and Bolivia. How can we trade with a corrupt government? This could on a international scale make America seem corrupt itself."

First, we trade with corrupt governments all the time and make negotiations quite often. Take giving arms to Saddam Hussein for example. it happens. however, Brazil is A U.S. ally, and has the most stable and incorruptible government in S.A.. if we are going to have relations within S.A. ( which we need given my 1st contention about SA terrorism talking about how S.A. relations are key to stopping the next terrorist attack from south America.) we might as well have them with Brazil while they give us ethanol at reasonable price. furthermore, how is this even topical? even if they are the most corrupt governments in the world, this is a past tense resolution, and as of now we haven't seen any impacts of corruption from US BRAZIL relations thus those arguments are terminally non-unique.

AS: "Brazil is also one of the top ten countries America imports oil from"

has this increased with the rise of BRIC? even if it has, this has made oil cheaper for U.S. citizens who need the relief in a time of economic peril, or is too insignificant to be seen within the price margins and his addicted to Oil argument is flawed. furthermore Petro is cheap and sustainable, we need a decent supply until we find economically viable options.

C2- RUSSIA
AS:"One of Russia's big negatives is organized crime. And with Russia's immigrating to America organized crime is on the rise. With crime rising police are extra busy and to prevent officers from working to much cities often have to hire new officers whose salaries is paid through taxes causing an increase in both crime and taxes."

Has this increased due to the Rise of their economy? if there are more officers now working than before how does this increase crime? if more jobs are being created (new positions for officers) how is this a bad thing?

AS: Russian diplomacy had been described as secretive and suspicious, untrustworthy, and displaying unusual hostility toward the Western powers. If Russia can not be trusted who is to say that they won't eventually turn on the United States. Therefore Russia has in fact not had a positive impact on the United States

Who described it that way? as of now U.S. Russia relations are the best that they've ever been, and this is specifically due to the rise of Russia's economy. first, this is because these countries realize the only way to grow as far as economics go is to modernize and adapt from command to free market. China and Russia have both done this, and through this have been more accepting of western ideals. again ALL of these arguments that the CON is making are terminally non- unique as they are future arguments in a past tense resolution.

c3-INDIA
AS:"India, in spite of being a strong democracy for the last 60 years, has had internal conflicts that are based on caste, religion, ethnicity, and language. Its troubled relationship with its nuclear neighbor Pakistan and the militancy in Kashmir continue to distract the government and its resources in that country. If it is too focused on internal conflict or its neighbors it could not possible have time to contribute positively to the United States thereby proving that it can not contribute positively to the United States."

Okay so here the con says that India hasn't really had time to do anything, thus they haven't really had an impact on the U.S. However, within this statement we find a concession that India is not acting maliciously towards the United States in any way. however the development of their economy benefits the U.S. in several Ways. the most significant is the fact that their prosperity counter-balances the U.S. economic slump. basically because they do well they provide cheap goods, services, labors ect. to people within the United States in a time where they need it.

c4-CHINA
A new study has found that the United States' growing trade deficit with China has had an increasingly negative impact on the U.S. economy, causing job losses that reach into the most technologically advanced industries in the manufacturing sector and affect every state

okay how much job loss are we talking here? is there economic rise related to this? furthermore economic dependency between to hegemonic states can be a very beneficial thing. for example, china needs us to survive through the amount of consumption we have every year from their goods. we are their' main source of consumption, and with the downfall of our economy goes the down fall of theirs. This prevents things like nuclear warfare and warfare in general between the U.S. and china. furthermore china alleviates tariff burdens and other tax burdens on trade and other things ect to keep our economy well so we continue to purchase their goods.

C5-Overall detriment
"Predatory trade, especially as practiced by China, has led to more than 3.3 million U.S. manufacturing job losses since the beginning of 2001. "

what trade specifically? has this, again, been a result of the rise?

"China's illegal undervaluing of its currency combined with its peg to the U.S. dollar gives China's manufacturers a substantial competitive advantage over their U.S. competitors. "

how is this related to the rise?

"Furthermore China remains a communist country, while Russia is slowly crawling out of its communist USSR past. Each one of the G7 countries is a matured democracy with free press, free elections, and the guarantee of free speech. Some of the BRIC countries have a long way to go in assuring these freedoms and a lack of these freedoms will be detrimental to the world population."

as their economies modernize these countries become increasingly democratic, as they modernize towards western ideals. this has primarily been proven to be true in the two countries the CON specifically refers to Russia and China.
compare communist Russia and china with command style economies to now where they have both modernizes. the result is economic prosperity and more civil liberties and democracy as a result.

the con case has very little inherency, and that which is inherent is not topical. thus you must vote PRO extend my arguments thanks.
ChristianM

Con

ChristianM forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
masterzanzibar

Pro

thank you for the round, my opponent forfeits and can thus be seen as a concession. extend my arguments and vote PRO.
ChristianM

Con

ChristianM forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by masterzanzibar 7 years ago
masterzanzibar
i wish i had friends on this site
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Vote Placed by masterzanzibar 7 years ago
masterzanzibar
masterzanzibarChristianMTied
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Lazy
masterzanzibarChristianMTied
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