The Instigator
bigbass3000
Pro (for)
Winning
57 Points
The Contender
sadolite
Con (against)
Losing
41 Points

That the Economic Stimulus Act of 2008 will successfully mitigate economic slowdowns next year.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/10/2008 Category: Politics
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 3,541 times Debate No: 3174
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (55)
Votes (23)

 

bigbass3000

Pro

A learning debate, can you give me ideas
"To build a prosperous future, we must trust people with their own money and empower them to grow our economy. As we meet tonight, our economy is undergoing a period of uncertainty. America has added jobs for a record 52 straight months, but jobs are now growing at a slower pace. Wages are up, but so are prices for food and gas. Exports are rising, but the housing market has declined. At kitchen tables across our country, there is a concern about our economic future. In the long run, Americans can be confident about our economic growth. But in the short run, we can all see that that growth is slowing. So last week, my administration reached agreement with Speaker Pelosi and Republican Leader Boehner on a robust growth package that includes tax relief for individuals and families and incentives for business investment. ", it is because I agree with this quote from George Bush, that I affirm the resolution

Resolved: That the Economic Stimulus Act of 2008 will successfully mitigate economic slowdowns over the next year.

Economic Stimulus Act of 2008-The bill provides temporary tax incentives for businesses to make investments in their companies so that we create new jobs this year. The bill provides individual tax relief in the form of tax rebates. These rebates will amount to as much as $600 for individuals and $1,200 for married couples, with additional rebates for families with children. It was signed into action by George Bush on Feb. 13, 2008.

Mitigate-To become milder

Economic slowdowns-When the economy begins slow its economic growth, e.g. jobs, consumer products.

Con.1-Tax rebates work
Little A-What they are
"Individuals and families are eligible to receive up to $600 for individuals and $1,200 for couples. A minimum of $300 per person and $600 per couple would be available to those with at least $3,000 of earned income. This relief would be available to everyone with adjusted gross income less than $75,000 for singles and $150,000 for married couples filing jointly. It will be phased out for taxpayers above those income thresholds. Taxpayers may qualify by filing a tax return for 2007 and including a valid Social Security number on their tax return."

Little B-The G.D.P. increase
It is basic Keynesian economics, which are country is based on, one of the main reasons are economy is slowing is because people are not spending their cash. So what do you do to help the economy, you put cash in the American people hands. It is big enough, because it is 1% of our G.D.P., which according to (The Economist January 17, 2008), "1% of the G.D.P. is just enough to get us out of our funk". So the government gives money to the citizens to spend, thus spending on commodities like gas, food, or even bills. American are struggling right now, people are living pay check to pay check and this act will help the middle class, who are the ones feelings the heaviest blow. Secondly it has been done in the past and people did spend the money on the economy, but this time it is even more money. "Altogether, the government is hoping to add $145 billion to the economy. While the exact amount per person hasn't been determined, some estimates on Capitol Hill put it at $800 per taxpayer.
This would be almost four times the amount the government spent in 2002, the last time it tried to stimulate the economy.".

Little C-Middle Class
Also according to http://www.themiddleclass.org... ," a smart economic stimulus plan could prevent the downturn or soften its effects, but not just any stimulus package will do. To be effective, an economic stimulus package must direct money to those who will spend it quickly, boosting consumer demand and prompting increased production and economic growth. This Senate bill provides even more effective stimulus than the House legislation because the tax rebates are even more closely targeted to cash-strapped middle-class and aspiring middle-class Americans, who are more likely than wealthier people to spend the money they receive immediately, rather than saving it.", And that is exactly what this bill does for the American people.

Little D-Elderly
"Recipients of Social Security and certain veterans' benefits are also eligible for rebates. Those who receive at least $3,000 from any combination of benefits from these programs will receive rebates. The IRS and Treasury Department will be working closely with the Department of Veterans Affairs and the Social Security Administration, along with beneficiary organizations, to ensure that all eligible individuals are able to receive their payments.", What that means is that the elderly will receive money as well to stimulate the economy and according to William Novelli, Chief Executive Officer, AARP, "Tax rebates can be an effective stimulus measure, and [the Senate stimulus bill] provides tax rebates to millions of Americans, including over 20 million older Americans who primarily depend on Social Security for their retirement income. These older Americans spend 92% of their income -- a greater proportionate share of income than all other adults. This spending pattern strongly suggests that rebates for these individuals will be spent entirely and quickly, helping to provide an immediate boost to the economy.", so that will provide an immediate boost as well.

Con.2 Sociological boost
"There could be a psychological lift that ends the current gloom-and-doom atmosphere in corporate boardrooms. On Monday, the world glimpsed the depth of negativism when stock markets from Europe to Canada to Asia nose-dived. The US markets were closed for the Martin Luther King Jr. holiday. Economist Ethan Harris of Lehman Brothers offers a slightly different analysis. He estimates that a stimulus package of $100 billion could add 0.8 percent growth to the second quarter and 0.2 percent to the third quarter. "Perhaps even more important," he writes in a research report to his clients, "the policy would provide a psychological boost to the economy." , This means that it will boost the economy with providing hope to all the gloom that is happening.

Con.3 creates jobs
According to Ron Scherer | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor from the January 22, 2008 edition," "It may be too late, but it could mitigate the severity of the downturn or even jump-start us out of a recession," says Mark Zandi of Moody's Economy.com. "But I think that stimulus is helpful." Mr. Zandi, who is skeptical Congress will act quickly, estimates the proposed package could add $80 billion to real GDP in the second half of the year. That translates to about 1 percentage point of annualized growth. He also estimates that would support some 400,000 jobs. ", This means it can mitigate the job loss by providing jobs.

"Long-term unemployment places an enormous strain both on families and on the economy. Extending unemployment benefits would not only give aid to the families hardest hit by the economic downturn but also provide a critical stimulus to the economy. The long-term unemployed, their savings depleted, quickly spend virtually every dollar they receive, mostly on necessities found in their local economy. Extending unemployment benefits during an economic downturn is not only the right thing to do for the families struggling in this economy; it is also excellent economic policy."
–Heidi Shierholz, Economist, Economic Policy Institute (February 4, 2008)
sadolite

Con

This is so simple, It will help very little if at all. First where is this money coming from? Social Security is going bankrupt Medicare will be bankrupt even sooner. There is no money for any additional spending according to govt' officials, we have to raise taxes just to cover what is being paid for by the Govt now. So where in hell are they going to get this massive amount of money to cover all these checks! One of two things is painfully obvious here. We as tax payers are either being unfairly over taxed because they have all this extra money lying around or the federal reserve is just going to print a bunch of unsecured money and flood the monetary system with worthless cash in order to cover all the checks from the govt. If the later is true the only result will be inflation, and the economy will remain stagnent, What they are doing will cause, I hate to use the term (STAGFLATION)
Debate Round No. 1
bigbass3000

Pro

"Is this a rebate? What is it a rebate on?
The funds are rebate on the taxes you will pay next year, they are a rebate on your 2008 tax return. Rather than give it to you next year, they are giving it to you now. Next year, after you file your taxes, the IRS will calculate what you should've gotten and adjust your return. So if you received too much "rebate," they let you keep it. If you received too little, they decrease what you owe next year."

http://www.bargaineering.com...

So it is your taxes, just they give your taxes earlier, so you can boost the economy faster. He is saying it will cause stagflation, but it is not like they are getting this money out of thin air. It is the money the american people put into the governments hands.
This are just some clarifications on restrictions
"An individual with $2,500 in earned income in 2007: Disqualified because income fell below the $3,000 threshold. No rebate.
A married couple with no children, with adjusted gross income of $100,000 in 2007: Would qualify for the full $1,200 couples. A $1,200 rebate.
A worker with one child, who earned $9,000 and owed no taxes in 2007: Would qualify for the $300 rebate available to individuals who pay no taxes but earned at least $3,000, plus an additional $300 for the child. A $600 rebate.
A couple with income of $145,000 in 2007, with three children: Would qualify for the full $1,200 for couples, plus $300 for each child. A $2,100 rebate.
A couple with income of $160,000 in 2007 with two children: Would qualify for a partial rebate, reduced by 5 percent for every $1,000 in income above the $150,000 threshold. An $1,800 rebate $1,200 for the couple plus $300 per child — would go down by 50 percent for this family. A $900 rebate.
A couple with income of $200,000 and four children: Disqualified because their income exceeded $174,000, the phase-out limit. No rebate."
Come up with something more original, because I can't think of much else, but my case still stands in the round as you have not rebutted anything.
sadolite

Con

All of your figures are meaningless. The Govt is not going to cut spending to cover the rebates. It will just print more money to cover the short fall.
Debate Round No. 2
bigbass3000

Pro

Where is your analysis, the reason, why they are doing this is to benefit America, If it did not, then every single Senator, House of Reps who passed, this, just wanted to cause a stagflation as you said, obviously, you are cutting away from the debate, to an I don't know situation, just admit it. I wanted to have a real debate about this and also Professors of economics who gave the thumbs up to this bill are dumber than you right. You have provided no warrants, or data, just analysis.
sadolite

Con

"The funds are rebate on the taxes you will pay next year, they are a rebate on your 2008 tax return." So that means in 2008 the IRS will figure my taxes based on what I earned for that year and subtract the amount of the rebate I got this year and that will be my tax for the year of 2008 correct? If this is correct then the govt will have to make up the difference of the rebate it gave me this year for next years fiscal budget because it will now be short the money it gave me this year. The govt has never and I repeat never ever cut spending, it will print more money to make up the difference it is short in 2008 because of the short fall created by handing out money it does not have. This is my analysis, It's called simple math and knowing govt is completely irresponsible.
Debate Round No. 3
bigbass3000

Pro

Basically, they need a boost to start the train rolling, yes, you will have to pay, but When the economy rolls, it won't matter
sadolite

Con

Here is what will happen to the money that the govt sends out, and believe me you do not have to be an economic expert to figure this out. 1/4 to 1/3 of that money will be used to pay credit card bills that were racked up during the economic boom. Another 1/4 to 1/3 will be used to pay quarterly tax payments back to the govt, that is where my rebate is going. Another 1/3 to 1/4 will be used to pay monthly bills such as the mortgage payment, electric and utilities, etc. None of the above things do anything to stimulate the economy. The 1/4 to 1/3 left over will do nothing if anything to stimulate the economy. The best way to fix the economy is to let it tank and let the free market correct it self. What the govt is doing will only make the correction more painful when it finally does happen. I looked to see how old you are and it explains a lot, with age comes wisdom. here is a link that you can go to which has many sub links in it and it will explain to you what happens when the federal reserve prints worthless cash and all the other countries that do the same thing.

http://www.gold-prices.biz...

You are betting this scam will work, I wouldn't touch that bet with a ten foot pole!
Debate Round No. 4
bigbass3000

Pro

Could, you give something more credible like a college professor, or the news, .biz, my arguement, still stands, you have not rebutted anything. vote aff.
sadolite

Con

I don't' need to address any of your professors speculations on what might or might not happen if the fed prints more worthless money. No one can predict the economy. If they could they would own the world. I don't even have to read what these professors of yours have to say. It is all speculation, no matter how many numbers and scenarios they present they have absolutely no idea what will happen when the fed floods the monetary system with worthless cash. I have been around for almost 50 years and I have seen the fed do this before and all it did was cause inflation. History is on my side, pure speculation is on your side.
Debate Round No. 5
55 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by sadolite 5 years ago
sadolite
"The recession by the way ended in 2009."

Would get carpal tunnel syndrome if I had to type LOL the number of times needed to laugh sufficiently at that statement.
Posted by sadolite 5 years ago
sadolite
"The recession by the way ended in 2009"

LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL That's a good one.
Posted by Ragnar_Rahl 5 years ago
Ragnar_Rahl
" The recession by the way ended in 2009. So it did mitigate the economic situation."
Post hoc ergo propter hoc.
Posted by bigbass3000 5 years ago
bigbass3000
Also food and gas inflation is different from monetary inflation which has been average at best. In order to have hyperinflation, you have to have high velocity of money. Just because money is printed doesn't mean it will cause inflation. It has to have high velocity. Our economy is more deflation than inflation, because we don't have enough private sector investment because demand doesn't exist. US dollar is mainly devaluing because of trade imbalances due to our trade deficit. We import more than we export and the value of our currency goes down as well as the monetary policies of other countries. Here is a video explaining inflation, that way you can stop coming off as Ron Paul. Who I like, but Ron Paul loses credibility when he makes remarks that aren't sound.
http://www.khanacademy.org...
Posted by bigbass3000 5 years ago
bigbass3000
This wasn't about Obama's Plan. It was about George Bush Stimulus, which was tax cuts. The recession by the way ended in 2009. So it did mitigate the economic situation. Obama had a completely different bill, that did different things. So your comment is not topical. In fact Obama Stimulus plan had 45% tax cuts. Now you can make arguments about lessening regulations or whatever, but this debate was about Bush tax cuts, not Obama stimulus.
Posted by sadolite 5 years ago
sadolite
Told you so!! Look at us now. And you think Obamas plans will work LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL!~!
Posted by sadolite 7 years ago
sadolite
There are people who stick their head in the sand and then there are people who "STICK THEIR HEAD IN THE SAND!!! All stimulus and socialist ideas will fail guaranteed as the sun coming up in the morning. But there are those who put trust in govt and those people will be the first to loose everything.
Posted by sadolite 8 years ago
sadolite
Just keep on printing money it will solve the problem. Did I win this debate or what
Posted by sadolite 8 years ago
sadolite
I win!! reaccession city, I told you so.
Posted by Jamcke 8 years ago
Jamcke
Amazing. I actually agree with sadolite on something :O
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