The Instigator
backwardseden
Pro (for)
The Contender
VyleKarma
Con (against)

The 10 commandments: What true downers they all are

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/20/2017 Category: Religion
Updated: 10 months ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 477 times Debate No: 103617
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (8)
Votes (0)

 

backwardseden

Pro

Thankfully this nation was NOT founded under god who is 100% pure evil and hate as is unquestionably printed in the bible. Proof of that can be found under the 10 commandments.

Here's an absolute prime example of how anyone can outthink god with a less than a 3rd grade education because... Well all of the 10 commandments are negative and prohibiting when they should be uplifting if anything. What true downers they all are. There's also no way a supreme deity of intelligence or integrity would ever put into play The 10 Commandments in which 9 of them this country, the U.S. violates and a true supreme deity can not expect anyone to follow all of them to the letter in the first place...

*shall not kill - god kills and violates his own commandment as god kills and murders all the time. Hey god is responsible for the biggest genocide of all time with the great flood as he obliterated every living thing except for 2 of each species and Noah and his family which would have had to have been incalculable quadrillions. He also murdered innocent 6 month olds breast feeding and god would have had to have committed countless abortions to boot. And christians are supposed to be against abortions!!! What? Then talk about animal abuse. That is animal abuse at its finest. Wow! / is 100% hypocritical/ and the U.S. killed/kills millions in foreign countries and here on U.S. soil. Then talk about god sending in his chosen people to kill other peoples for absolutely no reason at all. So killing/ murder is just fine according to god. So god is a contradictory hypocrite.

*no other gods before me - violates the religious freedom of choice (regardless if god is a supreme deity, he wouldn’t care which only points out to his shallow ego)

*take the name of the lord your god in vain - violates the freedom of speech (again, god wouldn’t care that is IF god is god in which he clearly isn’t and would be able to shrug this off with ease and MOVE ON, very childish)

*not make unto thee any graven image - violates the freedom of speech (again, god wouldn’t care, very childish as he lights his roman candle twiddle boxes)

*remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy- violates the freedom of religion/choice/expression (um nope, god wouldn’t care)

Exodus 31:13-15 “Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you. 14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. 15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death." And how many violate it and are NOT put to death? Regardless, a bit harsh, horrifying and truly silly don't you think? And there's no way that it can possibly be put into place, especially into today's modern era. I mean how shocking do you have to be? Also its a bit silly that any supreme deity would require “rest”.

*honor your father and your mother - ha ha ha - Wow. Have you seen some of the parents out there who abuse their kids and or are terrible parents and or should never be parents? So this only appeals to those that are good parents or better.

Exodus 21: 17 "And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death.” Um absolutely not. Not if your mother and father abuse you. Not if they rape and torture you. Then indeed its the absolute reverse. Then if anything its the mother and father that shall surely be put to death if anything. That's a gimme.

*shall not commit adultery - violates the freedom of choice. Or if the other supposed “violator doesn’t let the other person know that he or she is committing adultery and or if the person does not know if the person he or she is sleeping with is committing adultery, what then? Also yet again its punishable by death. Wow such a stupid commandment.

*shall not covet your neighbor’s ?? well, violates the freedom of choice AS USUAL!

*shall not steal That’s awfully vague. Shall not steal what? One sip of water because your garden needs watering in the desert or you bare absolutely dying of thirst? One tiny bite of meat because your family is starving? A nuclear bomb from Iran or N. Korea or wherever to save the world from a holocaust?

Once the 10 commandments are rightfully reset due to a thoughtful process which never happened to begin with, obviously, because god is totally incapable of thinking, rationalizing, reasoning, using common sense, nor using logic because he doesn’t require an ounce of it, then who knows how many commandments will be needed, in their place????? As it is assuredly required to have a commandment which states something to the effect of "thou shall not rape, beat, torture, nor cause harm to children." In reality, there's no way that the 10 commandments are righteous and just with leaving that one out and thus leaving god's ridiculous blubbering superior ego complex in. That’s a duh situation. And there’s no way this god of the bible who is supposed to be kind, caring and loving, could have possibly missed that one. Nor could he have missed something like “thou shalt not permit slavery”. But then again this god endorses slavery which is evil. But then again, there’s no proof that this god of the bible even exists.


See how stupid these 10 comandments just---don’t---work? 9 commandments out of 10 = kablooey!!! Well at least here in this country. Hey god you hair brained maggot of the printed bible, lose the bloated ego. Let us all band together and permanently get rid of those ridiculous commandments that trumpets his bloated ego. They are not needed for any reason and they are absurd indeed.

Are there any commandments that are geared towards children? No there are none. There NEEDS TO BE!!! obviously. That is a gross violation and it is truly shameful especially when their voices and cries need to be heard and not shut down. Children throughout the bible do not get to say nor voice one single sentence in the bible which is the worst form of child abuse there is as they are neglected and ignored.

However there are 4 commandments out of the 10 commandments covering god’s bloated fragile frail superior ego. Now why is that? What is god afraid of that he requires 4 out of 10? I’ll tell you what he is afraid of… He is afraid of losing his grip, power and control that he has with his supposed chosen people. So what does this god character do? He applies fear through his commandments. And fear controls. Its that simple. In no way could these 10 commandments ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever and lets say - ever - again be implied to today’s intelligent and educated congregations from around the world if they were written today ----- unless they are for those that are far too gullible and seeking an explanation for the unexplained, just like you. So obviously, the 10 commandments weigh in with precious little credibility and with no integrity that isn‘t contradictory and hypocritical that “thou shall not kill“ is. None. So please do not invent the excuse that I am taking verses from your bible out of context. K? When in fact you can not read your simpleton bible at all - ever - for what they are now can you? That’s an “absolutely not” answer on all levels.

Man can and will do and has done for 265,000 years just fine without god. god cannot do without man.


So your job as Con in this debate is to ultimately prove that the 10 commandments are just and ethical and must convincingly establish that they are well followed in today’s scatterbrained society.


VyleKarma

Con

First of all, I want to clarify that I am do not believe in any literal gods and I see the Bible as a set of stories and metaphors about human behavior and the ideal way to conduct your life. I believe Christianity and its values were essential in the formulation of Western civilization, the most successful society in the history of the world, and that the ten commandments are extremely valuable principles for living a good life.

Fundamentalist Christians look at the Bible as a literal document, and a problem arises when scientific atheists accept that interpretation but deny its validity. It is certainly invalid, but there's a second way of interpreting it that neither of them acknowledges, or at least not the scientific atheists. Science tells us what things are, not how we should act, and I believe the correct way of interpreting the Bible is as a set of mythological stories about how you should act. This is not necessarily the only truth about the Bible and religion, but it's the one I'm concerned with for the purposes of this debate.

[b]1. I am the Lord Your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.[/b]

The reason the first commandment is so important is to push the idea of transcendent moral values. Throughout the Bible, there is a central message that "God is good," which is pushed constantly. It invokes the theme of divine figure which is perfect and ideal in every way, and if you accept that premise, you"d naturally want to be as much like God as possible, which is exactly what Christ models. A human who lived an ideal, transcendent life, which we should all strive for.

It also reinforces the idea that people should be free to pursue that life. The Bible states that God freed the Hebrew people from being enslaved, and the idea of individual freedom is the driving force behind Western society, which is brought up again in several commandments.

[b]2. You shall have no other gods beside Me. You shall not make for yourself any graven image, nor any manner of likeness, of any thing that is heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them, nor serve them, for I, the Lord Your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation.[/b]

The idea that we should not recognize any institution, government, person, or group as a transcendent or divine is valid. This once again invokes the idea of personal liberty. We should not give the government control over our lives, we should not give a king or queen absolute power, et cetera. This is why we have a bill of rights, and a constitution limiting the scope of the government's power. This is why we have (and should have more) term limits. It's also about humility, and recognizing that you are not, and will never be perfect.

[b]3. You shall not take the name of the Lord Your God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that takes His name in vain.[/b]

You should not do or say bad things in the name of God. It does not make you innocent if you do bad in the name of good, and again, no one is above the law.

[b]4. Remember the Sabbath, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor, and do all your work; but the seventh day is a Sabbath unto the Lord Your God, in it you shall not do any manner of work, you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your man-servant, nor your maid-servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger that is within your gates; for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested on the seventh day. Wherefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day, and made it holy.[/b]

There are quite a few ways of looking at this. The most simple one is that you should give yourself time to rest, but it also brings up the idea of holiness, and to me this means you should take the time to examine you life and ensure what you are doing with it is as ideal as possible.

[b]5. Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord God gives you.[/b]

This one is very complicated, and my understanding of what it means was formulated in part by the Biblical lectures by Jordan B Peterson which are on YouTube if you want to see them. The literal way of looking at this is obviously that you should respect your mother and father, but it's also about your cultural mother and father, because like your actual parents, your societal culture made you who you are, and you shouldn't trivialize that. The last part of this commandment is very important. "that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord God gives you." Assuming your society is functional to an extent, the idea of completing overturning your culture is very dangerous. When you recognize flaws in it, even if they're massive, you shouldn't call entire culture, you should make adjustments, because if you try to completely overturn a lifestyle, or throw out the old gods so to speak, the new gods will likely be much more dangerous than you anticipate. A culture is not arbitrary, and unless you have an extremely good reason, you should pretty much follow the traditional lifestyle, because there's more reason to it than you think.

To give a concrete example, most of the world was relatively capitalist prior to the 20th century, and it was fairly successful and functional, however, the Russians had recognized flaws in this lifestyle, and completely overturned it rather than making conservative adjustments. Look how it turned out for them.

[b]6. You shall not murder.[/b]

Murder, not kill. As far as I can tell, you have no criticism for this commandment in itself. This again emphasizes individualism, and the idea that an individual life and its freedoms are important. The fact that God violates this commandment in the Bible's stories is irrelevant to whether or not it is a good commandment.

[b]7. You shall not commit adultery.[/b]

Perfectly valid principle for a good life. Adultery destroys trust, and trust is important in relationships and families.

[b]8. You shall not steal.[/b]

Property rights and individualism. Taking someone else's property without their consent is wrong, and rightfully against the law.

[b]9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.[/b]

Honesty and trust, basic Western values.

[b]10. You shall not covet your neighbor"s house, nor his wife, his man-servant, his maid-servant, nor his ox, nor his [debate.org wouldn't let me submit this word lol], nor anything that is your neighbor's.[/b]

You argue that this is against freedom of choice. I certainly wouldn't want some of these commandments put into law, but that doesn't mean they aren't totally reasonable and ethical guidelines to live a good life, and removing envy from your life seems to be a good guideline.
Debate Round No. 1
backwardseden

Pro

Well if you believe in christianity and its values, then you believe in its god. How can you not? You have the stumbling block of being able to prove this god of the bible even exists. No one has. No proof exists. If you believe in christianity and its stories and values, then you believe that slavery is good, stoning people to death because they are gay is good, being raped is good, being put to death because you curse at your parents is good, being put to death because you do not worship the sabbath is good, because you worship other gods you should be put to death is good, god committing atrocities such as horrific genocides is good and thus killing innocent babies still sucking on their mothers nipples is good, killing innocent children and pregnant mothers is good, and thus because this god killing pregnant mothers its the first sign of abortion so that’s good and thus your idea of christianity is thrown right out the window like dung powder. Then of course there’s all the animal abuse. So where does your christianity values lie? Its all right there in your bible.Have you actually read it? Apparently not as most who claim to be christains which is 80% do not pick up their bible’s and actually read it but once per every other week and that’s only a few verses, if that.

Absolutely atheists deny the validity of the bible because no god would ever communicate in text form. The worst form of communication possible.

“If god is all knowing and he knows the future of all events and he wrote a book that can only be interpreted as if it endorses slavery and if its heinous violence against your children against your neighbors… how could a god be that omnipotent and devise a book where we can’t distinguish between the law of Israel and god’s law? I mean their interwoven where we have metaphor and fact and nobody can distinguish the two. We don’t know what we’re supposed to take figuratively. We don’t know what we’re supposed to take literally. Was it actually a tree? I mean come on. How can anyone distinguish this. I mean come on. It doesn’t make any sense. It doesn’t matter how its translated. It doesn’t matter what version. If it was written by an omnipotent being there would be ONE VERSION. And there would be only ONE WAY to interpret it because it would be written well.” Aron Ra
Actually it wouldn’t be written at all. What’s wrong with your god comin’ down and talking to people? ‘Hey you know some of that stuff that’s in the book? I’m here to correct it.” Matt Dillahunty

“We have to rely on copies of copies of anonymous authors with no originals and the textural testimony to a miracle for example, there’s no amount of reports, anecdotal reports that is sufficient to justify in believing that actually happened as reported. And anything that would qualify as a god would clearly understand this and if it wanted to clearly convey this to people in a way that is believable would not be relying on ---TEXT--- to do so. And this to me is the nail in the coffin for christianity. The god that christians believe in is amazingly ---STUPID---!!! If it actually wants to achieve its goal by spreading its word to humanity by relying on text, by relying on languages that die off, by relying on anecdotal testimony, that’s not a pathway to truth. And anything that would qualify for a god would know this.which shows either god does not exist or doesn’t care enough about the people to understand the nature of evidence to actually present it. Now which of those two possibilities is accurate?” Matt Dillahunty

“If jesus and Muhammad and abraham and moses had never been born, which in any case I tend to dabble, if all their stories were untrue were suddenly found and everyone had to admit it some people I know would show panic. Now what would we do? We’d have no morals suddenly. What could be more nonsensical than that? As the matter of fact the position that we occupy would---be---precisely---the---same as it is now if none of these texts had ever been written, as if none of these lacerations had ever been made. We would still have to reason together about how how to treat one another, about how to build a just city, and about how to have irony and a sense of humor.” Christopher Hitchens

[b]1. I am the Lord Your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.[/b]
Its not important if a god is a true god because he would share himself with the entire world first of all and make peace with the entire world and not have any wars and not settle down in one little splatch of land to spread his filthy little ego across in it in which no true god would even have an ego to begin with. That’s why its not important. No god would care. What moral values are you speaking of? The ones mentioned in the first paragraph as mentioned in this second round such as your god’s approval of slavery and stoning people to death because they curse at their parents and killing people because they wish to worship other gods? Wow what great morals this god character has. Again, prove god exists.

[b]2. You shall have no other gods beside Me.
Um no you missed the point completely. Your god raised martial law and committed countless genocides because of it to get rid of those who believed in other gods because he’s a jealous god in which no god would ever ever ever ever ever be jealous of all emotions which proves that this so-called god is not a god as jealousy is anger as disguised fear which proves that this so-called god is imperfect. Now who in their right mind would WANT to worship bile like that? Here’s some of the genocides your god committed for no reason. Worshiping other gods is no reason.
Indeed god is far far far worse than Hitler, Mao, Pol Pot, Stalin, Hong Xiuquan combined. Here's some examples... 3,000 EX 32:27-28, 14,700 NU 16:49, 24,002 NU 25: 1-11, 12,000 JOS 8: 1-25, 10,000 JG 1:4, 120,000 JG 8:7-10, 42,000 JG 12:3-6, 1,000 JD 15:14-15, 3,000 JD 16:27-30, 25,101 JD 16:27-30, 1 SAM 4 34,002, 1 SAM 6:19 50,070, 2 SAM 8 65,850, 1 KI 20: 28-29 100,000, 1 KI 20: 30 27,000, KI 19 35 -37 185,000, 2 CHR 13 17-18 500,000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, 2 CHR 28:6 120,000, Esther 9:5-18 75,813 etc etc etc Yeah god is really so moral huh? There’s no such a thing as “love” within any genocide.
That’s how Syria is operated. Not this country.

[b]3. You shall not take the name of the Lord Your God in vain;
Oh absolutely you should say bad things about god for reasons listed above. Who in their right mind would NOT rebel against a tyrannical dictator that god clearly is?

[b]4. Remember the Sabbath, to keep it holy.
Really stupid. No “god” requires rest of any kind. Yeah and like you should really be put to death for not worshiping the sabbath? More power to me for not worshiping the sabbath. Billions of others also. Notice its not happening now? Jeez. Why not? Yeah god is losing his grip.

[b]5. Honor your father and your mother,
Sure. Honor your mother and father IF and only IF they are good to you. If they rape and beat you and treat you like a dog, then it is they that should be cursed at at the very least. Regardless, just because I curse at them is not a warrant for my death or anyone’s.

No its thou shalt not kill. Back then the terms “murder” and “kill” meant the same thing. Look it up in the Torah. Not changed at all. Even in the 20th century. Not changed at all. Then here you come and you change it and you think its perfectly fine. But your god killed, well actually murdered according to you. And hey that’s perfectly OK as he murdered innocent babies still suckling on their mother’s nipples as he did in the massive genocides such as the great flood which never happened - correct? That’s perfectly OK? Wow how truly contradictory and hypocritical. So you as a christian believe that killing/ murdering is perfectly OK to your god. But not to you. Huh?
National Geographic, this month in fact did an article on those who believe that they are the resurrected jesus and the second coming of him. Now would you follow any of these jesus’s and “kill” for them if they instructed you to do so? There’s no difference from god telling you to “kill” for his holy wars.
And the thing about it is…
Tracie Harris “In the bible the only reason why people had to die was because god set up this system of sacrifice which is really weird.”
Don Baker “So he’s killing himself to appease himself for a rule he made up. What a bunch of bulls--t.”
Tracie “He could have just said ‘treat people well and I will judge you on that instead of people must die’. Let’s be clear on this. Nobody had---to---die.” Wow is she 100% correct.

And what is really horrific is that the bible starts off with not hope, but despair when Cain kills Able. the bible says “kills”, not “murder”.
Now if god is god, there would be absolutely no reason for killing and instead he could have brought in an era of peace. But nah, he loves death, hate and evil proving that he is completely immoral.

“The fact that God violates this commandment in the Bible's stories is irrelevant to whether or not it is a good commandment.” Absolutely 100% false and is completely relevant because 1. It proves this fake god is a 100% contradictory hypocrite. 2. It proves this fraudulent god is a terrible role model and should not be looked upped to for any reason especially for children. These 2 rules in which you ignored, are essential as to why this god character should never be given any kind of faith offered unto him for any reason.

[b]7. You shall not commit adultery.[/b]
I nor anyone has the right to take away the pleasures of sex from anyone as being with someone different is always a different experience. No it doesn’t destroy trust at all. It destroys jealousy. Jealousy is a horrific emotion filled with lies a deciet invented by your god for no reason at all proving this god is not a god but a fake and a fraud.

I'm out of space.
VyleKarma

Con

"Well if you believe in christianity and its values, then you believe in its god. How can you not?"

I obviously recognize that the Bible was written by humans, and regardless of whether they were divinely inspired, they were much less advanced and civilized than us, but to recognize underlying metaphorical themes and principles in the Bible and to claim that they are useful and ethical does not require accepting that every word in the Bible is literally true. Many works of fiction throughout history such as the works of Shakespeare are not literally true, but have nuggets of underlying wisdom that can be applied to the real world. It would be totally invalid to literally interpret any of these fictional stories, including the Bible, but we can utilize them without doing so. Almost all Westerners, regardless of their religion, live a fairly Judeo-Christian lifestyle. We don't murder, we don't steal, we don't live polygamous lifestyles, and we teach our children not to lie, but we didn't just come up with these principles on our own. They're traditional values were developed over thousands of years and expressed through stories like those in the Bible. Also, I never claimed that all the values and stories expressed in the Bible were unquestionably valid and perfect. That's why we talk about them and adapt our interpretation of them.

The assumption that a literal god exists is not necessary for us to discuss the validity of the 10 commandments. If the literal god that exists in the Bible was commanding that we should follow these rules or be put to death, I would agree that is wildly immoral, but that presupposition is not necessary to discuss this topic. There are much broader ways of interpreting these commandments which I laid out in my first round.

"Who in their right mind would NOT rebel against a tyrannical dictator that god clearly is?"

If we were to take the Bible absolutely literally, I would agree, but that's not the only sense in which we can discuss these stories and specifically these commandments. I'm going to try to refrain from reiterating this point too much as it's applicable to pretty much everything you've written so far.

"Sure. Honor your mother and father IF and only IF they are good to you. If they rape and beat you and treat you like a dog, then it is they that should be cursed at at the very least."

Regardless of how your parents treated you, or I as I mentioned earlier, your metaphorical/cultural parents, they are a significant part of what made you the person you are. You should certainly recognize their flaws, especially if they're huge and disastrous flaws, but to completely disrespect and disregard them as entities in your life has bigger implications than you'd think. I'm sure you've heard of the idea that you shouldn't forget where you came from. This is the same idea.

"No its thou shalt not kill. Back then the terms 'murder' and 'kill' meant the same thing."

This is not true. The proper translation from the original documents is "Thou shalt not murder." Killing becomes murder if you were not doing it in defense of yourself or others. And again, you bring up the idea that in the stories, God told people to kill in his name during holy wars, but this is only a valid point if we both accept the presupposition that I'm representing the literal interpretation of the Bible, which I'm not.

"I nor anyone has the right to take away the pleasures of sex from anyone as being with someone different is always a different experience. No it doesn’t destroy trust at all. It destroys jealousy."

How does it destroy jealousy to commit adultery? It creates jealousy in your partner. Sex is an extremely powerful act, and adultery is generally interpreted by the offended spouse as a sign that the adulterous spouse might have romantic feelings for another person, which devalues the bond between the two partners. If you don't respect the value of that bond enough to maintain monogamy, you shouldn't engage in a serious relationship.
Debate Round No. 2
backwardseden

Pro

I obviously recognize that the Bible was written by humans, and regardless of whether they were divinely inspired,” which is a HUGE major hypocritical contradiction just as the god in the bible as printed is. “they were much less advanced and civilized than us,” And yet you somehow believe that we should seek their stories out and abide by their laws which is yet another bold hypocritical contradiction.
And yet how many christians MUST take their bible as being literally true, which of course is a true impossibility? You can’t just pick apart the parts YOU like and toss away the rest. Either YOU like it all, or YOU toss it all into the trash heap and take a giant dill-weed dump on it. That’s the entire problem with people that supposedly read the bible and how they clearly misinterpret it. So what if they are christians or not?

Shakespeare. You have to be taught on how to interpret his dialogue otherwise you are completely lost. The same exact thing is true with the bible. So exactly where and how did you get your interpretations from? If you say its from yourself, well then that’s left to be said that its laid upon a carpet of true and absolute scrutiny and nothing but. Its also how wars are created regardless of how and where you got you misinterpretations from, as absolutely no one interprets YOUR bible correctly, no one, no exceptions, none. After all, what idiot god is going to communicate in text form, the worst form of communication possible?
Ah yes indeed, this so-called god would splatter his grotesque bloated suffering egotistical superior complex all over this planet, holding nothing back, and he’d rank supreme. So where’s the evidence to support this as any true god would willingly give to support his crusades? Its nowhere. And you insist “My god is better than your god.” And you would be fighting OVER THE SAME GOD except for in the jungles. Strange, but this god MUST either hate or is afraid of the jungles. Hmmmmmm now why is that? They are scarcely mentioned in the bible, if at all.

And wow just how mentally deranged is this god guy to within the very first pages, he has Cain killing Abel when this god could have easily interfered, put a stop to this horrific nightmare before it even started and said “no”. But nah, your god loves the hate, the evil, the pain and suffering that goes along with killing. AND even worse is YOUR god makes it so easy for man to kill a man. This god could have made it a lot lot lot more difficult, if anything, for man to kill a man, or this god guy could have easily put a stop to it before it even were to have gotten started. Nah. So much goes for “thou shalt not not kill”. Um no. In YOUR god’s lingo, its “thou shalt kill”.

Regardless what is really troublesome, and I’ve had this dinging in my toxic brain ever since I was a little noodle… the bible never states “thou shalt not kill “humans”. So what is it that we as men are supposedly supposed to not kill? Granted, I’d have a much better time and understanding if the bible’s chieftains had originally stated something like “thou shalt not kill humans” but the bible nor the torah never states that. They both simply state “thou shalt not kill”. Now humans, we kill every single day. Actually EVERYTHING kills every single day in order to survive. We kill the microbes that enter us in order to breathe etc etc tec. The bible is NOT clear. Granted, I’ll take the side of “thou shalt not kill humans” but that’s not what the bible in no way shape or form says.

“Many works of fiction throughout history such as the works of Shakespeare are not literally true,” Yeah. But do you understand them? There, just like in the bible is one-helluva-lots-of blood guts and gore, violence, evil, and hate. Is that something that you’d want to actually want to teach to a child? Would you really want to teach to a child the bible for instance, especially the deliberate genocide by YOUR god and the great flood, the knowing end of the earth and the wiping out of all life (let’s call it exactly what it is as the so-called saving of 2 whopping animals would still cause their extinction from an evolutionary standpoint = 2 ants for 1 anteater? etc = huh?) and there is 0 proof that the great flood ---ever--- happened in the first place so the bible point blanked lied, So this is the book that YOU pay attention to? And this is the book that YOU believe has good Moral standards? Oh I get it… you believe this is so by delivering false hope because that is most certainly what YOUR bible hypnotically does and it does so without any transgression whatsoever. Nor does its supposed printed god give one hooted holier of an a$$ who it runs over to get there.

“It would be totally invalid to literally interpret any of these fictional stories,” who are you to say that? Unleaded or Regular? Same thing. No difference. This god has freely admitted that he IS EVIL btw. According to your bible, you cannot separate the good from the bad. Why? Easy. Suppose you have a mass murderer, rapist, torturer of 6 five year old girls. Would you ever let this person, for any reason go? No of course not. You’d certainly throw away the key if anything. And you’d probably give him the chair. So why should this made up fairy tale god be treated any differently? After all, he knowingly creates these mass murderers, rapists, torturers, sodomizers etc etc etc by the millions every single year to knowingly commit their horrific acts every single year by the millions.. He shouldn’t. Yet according to the sad methodical christian religion you are supposed to forgive this person and if he finds christ he is guaranteed a place in this so-called heaven, whereas if I do not, or if anybody does not believe in this christ, in which there is absolutely no proof for him ever existing, then we are all damned and we should all go to hell for doing absolutely nothing wrong. That's according to YOUR bible.

It is well known that Hitler was a devout christian and Hong Xiuquan even more so. So according to the bible, they automatically have places in heaven. Well goodie for me, all the more reason for me to ---never--- believe in this god nor christ characters. So get your facts straight mister.

“Almost all Westerners, regardless of their religion, live a fairly Judeo-Christian lifestyle.” Through all your rants in that paragraph, its taught through other religions and other government stances. Its not just the jedeo-christian lifestyle as you insist. How do you think that man got along before god showed his shiny white pearly’s up? There’s 0 sign of him tearing himself apart. Babylonia, Egypt, the aborigines, nearly all native American Indian tribes before your white man sweaty greasy trash pig decided to wipe them out etc etc etc they did just fine without your god. Then POOF here he comes and guess what happens? Well you figure it out.

“We don't murder, we don't steal, we don't live polygamous lifestyles,” You mean some don’t. Do you really think that other religions and cultures could have been around for lot longer and some do have the same values? Babylon, Gobekli Tepe, Egypt, Buddhists, Gaia Mother Earth, the Aborigines, etc etc etc had far superior values, a few in which your christian brethren wiped out?
Yeah you teach children not to lie, by burning their fingers, by making them stand in the corner for an hour or longer or so. Etc etc.etc That’s “values”?
Such arrogance barking from your lips to honestly believe that the bible is the only source that has values engraved within its shallow walls.
The 10 commandments are immoral with or without a stupid little Biff the Tragic Dragon tapdance on ice.

“"Who in their right mind would NOT rebel against a tyrannical dictator that god clearly is?"” That’s why the god of the bible cannot possibly exist.
“If we were to take the Bible absolutely literally,...” Well billions do even though they do not read the damn thing to begin with which is such a joke.
“Regardless of how your parents treated you,...” Um no. There is no regardless. If your parents treat you like trash then they should be put in jail and some should be executed/ given the chair without thinking twice. NO EXCUSES. NONE

Killing was described in full detail. Its an absolute losing proposition from your part.

Being with someone different in sex destroys the lying that you have to go through, the turning your back on someone, the jealousy. I NEVER get jealous of a girlfriend if she wants to see someone else because I do not have the right nor the willpower to take that difference, that diversified, that contrast that is within every person there is. Jealousy is an absolutely STUPID emotion thought up by a STUPID non existent god who would never have any part of it to begin with. All jealousy is, is a foul horrific emotion that is anger as disguised fear



Ah yes! I noticed you missed 4 of the 10 commandments. Now why is that?
VyleKarma

Con

"You can't just pick apart the parts you like and toss away the rest."

I'm not saying we should abide by the laws of people who lived thousands of years ago, I'm saying there is wisdom contained in texts like the Bible and that we should not disregard them so eagerly. I'm aware that many Christians take the Bible as literally true, but they do not represent everyone person who believes the Bible has value. You say people teach us how to interpret Shakespeare and that's the only reason we gain wisdom from his stories. This is not necessarily true, as the people who developed these interpretations had no one teaching them, and we are perfectly free to deny the validity of theirs and develop our own. This has happened many times with many documents, including the Bible.

I will not be able to complete my response.
Debate Round No. 3
backwardseden

Pro

Of course you will not be able to complete your response. Whatever gave you the first clue as you shimmy up your crickety chimney? Your response was so incomplete that I’m just not going to respond. Respond to what I said in complete detail in the third round as grouped as one portion IN WHICH YOU BROUGHT UP IN ROUND 2 and I responded to in turn, not just one small portion in which is most certainly is incomplete on your part in the third round or don’t respond at all. We’re done.
This round has not been posted yet.
Debate Round No. 4
8 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Posted by VyleKarma 10 months ago
VyleKarma
rip I messed up the bold words thing
Posted by backwardseden 10 months ago
backwardseden
@cakerman - Oh believe me I'm on your side which is why I mentioned "Great have it your way" otherwise I would have completely bullied my way across it and not even mentioned the super massive hypocritical contradictions in which the bible has around 1,000 making it truly confusing and unreadable as proved here. But it does exist nonetheless in such a HUGE way. Read Exodus 20: 3-17.
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
13 Thou shalt not kill.
14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
15 Thou shalt not steal.
16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his a$$, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.
Posted by dsjpk5 10 months ago
dsjpk5
That amendment can be used, in theory, to validate any action, so that's not a valid answer.
Posted by smurfy101 10 months ago
smurfy101
9th amendment

Also the lack thereof is unenforceable
Posted by dsjpk5 11 months ago
dsjpk5
Freedom of choice? Where's that in the Constitution?
Posted by cakerman 11 months ago
cakerman
I'm not a theist, and that is actually the set of commandments that Moses broke the first time around, the true ten commandments went

Through the history of Christianity, few portions of the Old Testament have influenced the church more than the Ten Words revealed by God to Israel at Mount Sinai. While often termed the "Ten Commandments," the Hebrew label preserved in Exod 34:28, Deut 4:13, and 10:4 is "Ten Words," which is also the etymology of the term Decalogue (from the Greek deka "ten" + logoi "words"). Nevertheless, Moses declares that the Ten Words were "commanded" (Deut 4:13), and Jesus explicitly calls them "commandments" (Matt 19:17-19), so the traditional title is not misdirected

Nevertheless, it is evident that, even with these alterations, Deuteronomy itself treats its Decalogue as a reiteration of the very "Ten Words" spoken by God out of the midst of the fire at the mountain of God"namely, as an echo of Exod 20:1-17"(cf. Deut 5:4-5, 22 with 4:12-13 and 10:4). After the 40 years in the wilderness (1:3-4; 4:45-46), the Ten Words have been updated, probably for pastoral purposes.[3] But Moses still stresses that, while the Deuteronomic version is a secondary account, it is nevertheless "just as Yahweh your God commanded you"
Posted by backwardseden 11 months ago
backwardseden
@cakerman Welp you know what? I just googled "10 commandments" and here's what came up.
* I am the LORD thy God.
* No other gods before me.
* No graven images or likenesses.
* Not take the LORD's name in vain.
* Remember the sabbath day.
* Honour thy father and thy mother.
* Thou shalt not kill.
* Thou shalt not commit adultery.
I do think that google would know better than you most certainly would any day of the year. Be that as it may. GREAT have it you way, that means that your bible contradicts itself rather hypocritically and blatantly I might add for about the 1,000th time I might add in the fricken book itself, from a book that is supposed to be exquisitely oh so perfect. NEWSFLASH: Its unreadable.
And no god would EVER choose text form, the worst form of communication possible, when this god could use actual evidence like talking to us, so man could get it wrong with no updates in at least 2,000 years as clearly as seen here either seen one way or the other. Which is correct? Or none?
Posted by cakerman 11 months ago
cakerman
you know none of these commandments were actually directly referred to as the ten commandments in the scripture? these are the real 10 commandments:

I. Thou shalt worship no other god.
II. Thou shalt make thee no molten gods.
III. The feast of unleavened bread thou shalt keep.
IV. Six days thou shalt work, but on the seventh day thou shalt rest.
V. Thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, of the firstfruits of wheat harvest,
and the feast of ingathering at the year"s end.
VI. Thrice in the year shall all your men children appear before the Lord God.
VII. Thou shalt not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leaven.
VIII. Neither shall the sacrifice of the feast of the passover be left unto the morning.
IX. The first of the firstfruits of thy land thou shalt bring unto the house of the LORD thy God.
X. Thou shalt not seethe a kid [ie, a young goat] in his mother"s milk
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