The 2014 Minnesota Vikings in the playoffs?!
Debate Rounds (3)
1. The competition in the NFC North has weakened in comparison to previous years, I will address the reasoning for each teams decline here:
1a. Green Bay Packers: The Packers are a team that is buoyed by spectacular quarterback play. But when one looks past Aaron Rodgers most of the team lacks sizzle, that is primarily said for the defense which simply doesn't have the ability or talent to stop many offenses efficiently. The Packers will do good with Rodgers at the helm, but Football is a team game, and the Packers simply do NOT have as complete a team as other teams in the NFL.
2a. Chicago Bears: The Bears are in a similar position as the Packers, the Bears rely on a dominant offense to carry their entire team. If one were to look past the offense they would see a defense that is in need of plenty of work, work I don't believe the Bears have accomplished.
3a. Detroit Lions: The Detroit Lions are a team with plenty of talent, the Lions just aren't a team that can use it's talent to win enough Football games. If the Lions could actually get it's talent to win games I would seriously consider them as NFC North favorites. Yet, I don't expect their coach Jim Caldwell to get the most out of the entire Lions team.
2. The Vikings coaches are of a greater quality than years past: The addition of Mike Zimmer was a brilliant addition in the minds of many people in the industry of Football. Mike Zimmer is a noted defensive guru who has helped turn around the defenses of every team he has been with very quickly (and just remember defense was the Vikings greatest problem last year.) Plus Zimmer is a respected coach by many in the league and should garner the respect of every Viking on the team Norv Turner was an fantastic hire as well, he is also a proven coach in this league who has worked with Hall of Famers such as Emmitt Smith and Troy Aikman (plus the future Hall of Famer Ladainian Tomlinson) Norv Turner should in theory raise the Viking's offense up another level.
3. The Vikings has massive amounts of talent
3a. The Vikings in the past 3 drafts has gathered 7 first rounders. Every one of these players (Matt Kalil, Harrison Smith, Shariff Floyd, Xavier Rhodes, Corrdarrelle Patterson, Anthony Barr, and Teddy Bridgewater) have the ability to improve tremendously because of the presence of Mike Zimmer, Norv Turner, and others.
3b. Pro Football Weekly has shown through its numbers that the Vikings have a very balanced team throughout.
3c. *cough* Adrian Peterson *cough*
So in conclusion the Vikings have a good chance of making the playoffs because of a division that may not be as tough as years past (it will still be tough though), a better coaching staff than years past, and a wealth of talent on both sides of the ball.
The Vikings are a balanced football team, and those teams often win.
First of all, they lost Jared Allen during the offseason. That is going to have a major impact on them considering Allen's stats in recent years.(http://www.nfl.com...)
Also, you said that the Green Bay Packers do not have enough talent on the whole team, and you basically said that it's just Aaron Rodgers responsible for their success. The Packer's defense will be incredible next year if everyone stays healthy. They have Sam Shields coming off an excellent year at corner, they have Clay Matthews as brilliant as usual, they drafted Alabama Crimson Tide star Haha Clinton-Dix at safety, and they acquired former Bears star Julius Peppers on the offense. As for their offense, Eddie Lacy will have a monster year. He was rookie of the year last year with great stats, especially for a modern day running back in a division with great defenses (http://m.espn.go.com...)
Also, their receiving group remains in tact with Jordy Nelson and Randall Cobb still there.
As for the Detroit Lions, the main thing is Calvin Johnson. He broke Jerry Rice's single season receiving yards record in 2012 and had a game this year where he almost set a record for the most receiving yards in one game. In addition to him, the Lions defense is just punishing. They have Ndomakong Suh, Nick Fairly, and Ziggy Ansah on the D line. They're gonna be tough to beat, especially with head coach Jim Caldwell in the division.
Moving on to the Chicago Bears. The only disadvantage for this team in this division is Jay Cutler. He's kind of a crybaby and he gets hurt a lot. He has to stay healthy this season for Chicago to have success. The Bears defense will be dominant as always. They have Tim Jennings and Charles Tillman of course. Also, they drafted Kyle Fuller out of Virginia Tech and scored J. Ratliff in free agency.
The Vikings two biggest disadvantages this year are the teams in their division and Teddy Bridgewater. Bridgewater may have been a top prospect, but he's still a rookie. The thing about rookie QB's is they're scared and they make too many mistakes. The Vikes may make the playoffs within the next two or three years, but it's very unlikely this year .
1. "First of all, they lost Jared Allen during the offseason. That is going to have a major impact on them considering Allen's stats in recent years"
1a. When you mean recent years do you mean his 2011 NFL regular season? Jared Allen of course was a good player in the years 2012 and 2013, but his declining production in those years can be replaced with a few people. The first of which is Everson Griffen whom just got resigned to a big deal to remain in Minnesota. It is logical to believe that Everson with his youth, athleticism, and the coaching of Mike Zimmer can elevate his play to that of starter level. Remember Everson has been impressive in spot duty so far producing 8 sacks in rotation in the 2012 season (with 3 of those sacks coming in the final game to seal a wildcard birth against the Green Bay Packers.) Ironically enough, the last person to help eliminate the void of Jared's numbers isn't a player, but a coach, Mike Zimmer. Mike Zimmer's scheme is known for being able to pressure the quarterback efficiently across the board. It is also common knowledge that Zimmer's schemes don't focus on a few superstar players, but focus on the defense to play as a unit, as a team. So the team will replace Allen's missing productivity.
2. "You basically said that it's just Aaron Rodgers responsible for their success"
2a. Yeah, you pretty much summed up what I was saying, and how is that not true? We got a sample of the Packers without Rodgers last year. Lets, just say they weren't exactly blowing by teams as they used to. Heck, they could only manage to tie us the Vikings in Week 12 of the 2013 NFL regular season (our defense was the worst in franchise history.) I think that alone would prove that the Packers without Rodgers are a completely different team. Sam Shields will man down one corner spot efficiently, but what of the other? Clay Matthews is brilliant, I bet the Packers wish they had 10 more of him on the field at the same time. If we are going by the fact that he is a rookie, Haha Clinton-Dix shouldn't be able to shore up the entire Packer's backfield. Julius is similar to Allen, he may have the ability to preform, but the odds of him preforming enough to help a defense be "incredible" is very doubtful. Look how incredible he made to 2013 Bears defense (161.4 yards rushing/game.)
3. Your points on the Lions
3a. The deal with the Lions is that their talent is always enough to win, but have historically always underachieved.
4. "The Bears defense will be dominant as always"
4a. Was it dominance I was witnessing last year?! (2013) 30th ranked overall defense in the NFL, and 31st ranked rushing defense?! Lets hope it is that dominant this year.
So hopefully that proves that the teams in the division are manageable for the Vikings.
Not all rookie QB's are prone to mistakes (RG3 in 2012 for proof)
What about our coaches and young talent?
RG3 is an exception, not the standard. RG3 was projected to go number two overall and he did. Bridgewater almost wasn't a first round pick, and he was expected to be. His prospect really fell in the draft, and for good reason. He didn't really stand out at the combine or his pro day. Also regarding Bridgewater, I think he will have trouble with his head coach Mike Zimmer. Zimmer is a defensive guy and defensive style coaches are known for being QB killers, which isn't good for a rookie.
Also, regarding Aaron Rodgers, he was not the only guy injured on last year's team. Some other guys with injuries were Clay Matthews, Jordy Nelson, and Jermichael Finley to name a few.
- Cam Newton
- Matt Ryan
- Peyton Manning
- Andrew Luck
So I guess these guys were "scared and made too many mistakes."
There is no reason to believe that Teddy can't be as successful as any of these guys. Teddy Bridgewater started the draft process as the #1 QB and a potential #1 pick. His draft stock fell because of a lackluster pro day. Now let me get this straight, the #1 QB in the entire draft who has thrown for over 9,800 yards and has thrown 72 touchdowns in his college career now falls in the draft process because of a workout in shorts? Teddy Bridgewater has been nothing short of amazing on THE FIELD he has been praised for his toughness, accuracy, and mentality (something you said a ALL rookie QB's have a problem with.... "The thing about rookie QB's is they're scared and they make too many mistakes.")Teddy simply hasn't been like that on the football field, in fact, far from it.
Also where did you do your research for "Defensive style coaches are known for being QB killers."
Sure, some may have that reputation, but defensive style coaches in general work just fine with QB's here are a few examples.
- Jim Schwartz/Matthew Stafford
-Ron Rivera/Cam Newton
-Mike Tomlinson/Ben Roethlisburger
And yes, those Packers were injured too, but tell me this if you were the Packers would you rather have a healthy Aaron Rodgers or all of the players you mentioned. I think the Packers would want their star QB, in a QB driven league, starting and healthy.
So I think all of your points have been answered effectively. Now what about all of my other points? Can I get a few responses? You still haven't brought up Norv Turner, or the rest of the first round picks, or Adrian Peterson.
As far as I'm concerned the Vikings have a good chance of making it to the playoffs. Nothing you have said has made me think twice (or anyone else for that matter.)
Yes, Teddy Bridgewater's stock fell because of his bad pro day. Do you know why the NFL does pro days? It's to see who can play and who can handle pressure. Andrew Luck and RG3 had very good pro days. Can they handle pressure? Well let's see. They have both closely brought their teams to playoff appearances, and they have both felt and handled the pressure of the NFL postseason. So, Bridgewater has not yet shown that he can handle pressure and still do a good job. And by the way, I didn't say that ALL rookie QBs have huge issues of fear and mistake making. I didn't use the word all, so don't take advantage of something I said if I didn't say it.
About defensive style coaches, here are some who 's QBs have taken a lot of sacks over the course of the year:
John Harbaugh/Joe Flacco-took 48 sacks in 2013
Rex Ryan/Geno Smith-took 43 sacks in 2013
Mike Tomin/ Ben Roethlisberger(yes)- took 42 sacks in 2013
And of course I would rather have Aaron Rodgers, but the quarterback isn't the only important position on the field. This league wouldn't be "QB driven" without playmakers that the Packers didn't have, such as Jermichael Finley and Jordy Nelson.
I am about to adress the other subjects that you pointed out. Norv Turner had one good season in San Diego, it was 2009. They didn't even win the playoff game they played in (they lost to Mark Sanchez's Jets). The rest of his seasons in San Diego were 9-7, 8-8, and 7-9 seasons. As for the Viking's other first round pick Anthony Barr, he's questionable. While watching the draft, I thought C. J. Mosley would've been the much smarter pick (as he had won championships at Alabama and really was a better player). Adrian Peterson is great, and I have nothing but respect for the guy. The only thing with him, is that he must get the spotlight early. What I mean is, with a rookie QB coming in, too much focus may be on teaching him the offense. AP is the much better player, so Mike Zimmer must be smart enough to have a running type offense.
I think we both have debated well enough to convince voters to vote for us. I wish you good luck in the voting process.
No votes have been placed for this debate.
You are not eligible to vote on this debate
This debate has been configured to only allow voters who meet the requirements set by the debaters. This debate either has an Elo score requirement or is to be voted on by a select panel of judges.