The Instigator
DucoNihilum
Con (against)
Winning
30 Points
The Contender
left_wing_mormon
Pro (for)
Losing
6 Points

The 9/11 terror attacks were committed by leaders of the United States government

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/23/2008 Category: Politics
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,906 times Debate No: 3346
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (16)
Votes (12)

 

DucoNihilum

Con

I have never seen a different 'theory' of the events hold water, and would be glad to try to see somebody go for the contrary.
left_wing_mormon

Pro

By the looks of it, you are defending the possiblity of an "inside job" by the government regarding the september 11 attacks.

First of all, there are alot of questions about 9-11 that have yet to be answered. But my questions are not about "controlled demolitions" or missles in place of planes. My questions are along the lines of: Why did the president cut anti-terrorism funding from the F.B.I. by 12%, or what did Bush think when he got an F.B.I. warning of a terrorist attack on New York city?

When dealing with a "conspricy" theroy, you need to first adress the basics.

Now I really don't know what your logic is for this debate, so I would love to respond as soon as you give me an official argument. Thank you.
Debate Round No. 1
DucoNihilum

Con

Firstly, I would like to note how difficult it is for me to write what you call an 'official argument' when I am con, the burden of proof is on you, and this is primarily a refutation debate. How am I supposed to refute what you haven't brought up yet? I can only be brief again, as I have no idea what you might bring as reasons for why you think the US Government was involved in the 9/11 attacks.

As for the things that you brought up....

Perhaps the president did not think that terrorism was very serious threat? Looking back as we are now and thinking about the presidents decision might make him look foolish, however, we must look at the situation from a time before 9/11 actually happened. Terrorism was rather low in the US, relatively small terror attacks happened every decade or so- we were not in a "war on terror". The president receives many memos every day, I agree that he did receive a memo regarding the 9/11 terror attacks. Looking back at it now, this seems like an obvious threat. Looking at it from that point of view, perhaps not. He gets at least one PdB (Presidential Daily Brief) a day. Even if he did think it were some sort of threat, what is he supposed to do about it? He had no information about the time of the attack. You might say that he could call the alarms, notify the US public, and shut down or add more security to airport- but pre 9/11 this would have been practically unheard of, and would probably have caused some issues, considering the president had just come into office not too long before this.

From my investigations into the 9/11 terror attacks, all 'proofs' that the government was involved have either been totally irrelevant, relating more to incompetence than planning, or utter misunderstandings of how things work ( Fire could not melt steel).

I am open for my opponents reasons why he believes that the US government was involved in 9/11
left_wing_mormon

Pro

I'm sorry. I had a very stupid moment here. I'm afraid I wasted your time. See I thought you believed in the conspriacy theroy, I didn't think to look at whether yuo were con or pro....

Sorry, there is nothing to debate because we both believe the same thing on this subject. The government had no hand in the 9-11 attacks...

Yes, call me an idiot if you must...Sorry for wasting time...
Debate Round No. 2
DucoNihilum

Con

Funny, this is the second time that happened with me with the same topic. I kind of wanted a real debate here.

GO ahead and just concede your other rounds now so I don't have to debate this all month.
left_wing_mormon

Pro

...sorry....

I would like to say I read your other debates. I think your amazing...in a way thats totally ok with the bible...(that was a joke...)
Debate Round No. 3
DucoNihilum

Con

Thanks. I try to make somewhat logical debates all the time. Unfortunately, a lot of the debates on this site end in the other debater leaving. (Not talking about you or anything here)
left_wing_mormon

Pro

I might as well take this as a chance to put some of my writings out there. This is not relevent, but I want to see what people say...

Conversation with my favorite Conservative

Grandma: Yeah Jon, well, what about all the good things, huh? Why are you being so pessimistic? We got Saddam Hussein out! We killed known terrorists like Abu Musab al-Zarqawi! We gave Iraq a new government system called a democracy, in place of their old dictatorship! And….some bad things have happened in the war, but that's what it is Jon! People die in war. No one likes war. You need to balance out the Pros and Cons. U.S.A.!!

Me: Well, the things that get to me are the really big cons, Gram. The pros are good; nobody liked Saddam, he was cruel and mean and vile! However, he kept al-Qaeda out of his country because of the religious differences. He hated bin Laden, but since our invasion, al-Qaeda is now holding strong in Iraq. As the BBC reported: Iraq war 'helped al-Qaeda recruit'. More terrorists are being produced everyday who are willing to strap bombs to their bodies and run into a military camp! Even CNN is reporting the apparent rise in al-Qaeda attacks.

Grandma: Yeah but… We got Saddam out!

Me: Ok. We got Saddam out. That's good, but when are we going to get other bad guys of the world like… Kim Jong Il, Omar al-Bashir, King Abdullah, and so forth. We can't select specific countries to invade, kill innocence, and then just stay watching their country fall apart.

Grandma: Fall apart? Our former Secretary of Defense said himself we are looked at as liberators and heroes by the Iraqi people! They want us there!!! Donald Rumsfeld wouldn't lie!

Me: Actually the Program on International Policy Attitudes did a new poll and their findings were as follows:
– A large majority of Iraqis–71%–say they would like the Iraqi government to ask for US-led forces to be withdrawn from Iraq within a year or less. Given four options, 37 percent take the position that they would like US-led forces withdrawn "within six months," while another 34 percent opt for "gradually withdraw[ing] US-led forces according to a one-year timeline."
– Support for attacks against US-led forces has increased sharply to 61 percent (27% strongly, 34% somewhat). This represents a 14-point increase from January 2006, when only 47 percent of Iraqis supported attacks.
– More broadly, 79 percent of Iraqis say that the US is having a negative influence on the situation in Iraq, with just 14 percent saying that it is having a positive influence.
– Asked "If the US made a commitment to withdraw from Iraq according to a timeline, do you think this would strengthen the Iraqi government, weaken it, or have no effect either way?" 53 percent said that it would strengthen the government, while just 24 percent said it would weaken the government.
– Asked what effect it would have "if US-led forces withdraw from Iraq in the next six months," 58 percent overall say that violence would decrease (35% a lot, 23% a little).
Oh and by the way Gram, another study by the Center for Public Integrity showed Donald Rumsfeld lied 109 about Iraq before we invaded.

Grandma: Well, don't go pulling statistics out! You kids and your Liberal Facts!! Go hate America some where else! You hate the troops and you hate Jesus! Get my diabetes shot!

***********************************************************
As my Grandmother quietly fell asleep in front of the television, which was humbly displaying Fox News, I put a blanket on top of her and kissed her forehead. You see, I love my Gram. I don't hate the way people think. I just ask that if more people were willing to think about the facts, would you still hold to your guns, or would you put down the guns and realize that you can start change now.

Oh, and I did give my Grandmother her diabetes shot.
Debate Round No. 4
DucoNihilum

Con

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left_wing_mormon

Pro

So three men walk into a bar...you figure one would have seen it...

sorry attempt to tell a joke...sorry...

I just want to recomend a book called "All Queit on the Westeren Front"
Debate Round No. 5
16 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by jazzyfizzle 8 years ago
jazzyfizzle
i think that u picked something that u know people would agree to
Posted by DucoNihilum 8 years ago
DucoNihilum
I challenged you, go ahead and accept.
Posted by Yraelz 8 years ago
Yraelz
Not a fan of the BBC or CNN?
Posted by sadolite 8 years ago
sadolite
The BBC and CNN, lol. (25 characters)
Posted by Yraelz 8 years ago
Yraelz
I'd actually rather see you start it. I think this is quite frankly the most biased issue on debate.org, from what I have seen. I don't think I can win, but I'd at least like the last word to attempt to.
Posted by DucoNihilum 8 years ago
DucoNihilum
Well, I try to be careful with my propositions. I don't want to be caught in a trap in which you show that in one government report an estimated 13,409 gallons of fuel was burned and in another 13,500 was burned. I would accept the below proposition. Although, wouldn't it be more efficient for you to start the debate as pro, as you could put forth your opening argument when my argument would be mostly refutational at the begging with this sort of debate?
Posted by Yraelz 8 years ago
Yraelz
"It is as likely or more likely that 9/11 was an inside job as compared to any other scenario."

I will debate you on this topic. Will you make?
Posted by Yraelz 8 years ago
Yraelz
Haha, wouldn't that allow you to preempt my case?
Posted by DucoNihilum 8 years ago
DucoNihilum
Well, what specific examples would you use?
Posted by Yraelz 8 years ago
Yraelz
I doubt I could prove they were more likely an inside job. I could easily argue that they were not as the government told us they were though. Which gives suspicion to the inside job idea.
12 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by freedom9 8 years ago
freedom9
DucoNihilumleft_wing_mormonTied
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Vote Placed by griffinisright 8 years ago
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Vote Placed by left_wing_mormon 8 years ago
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