The Instigator
telisw37
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
patrick967
Con (against)
Winning
21 Points

The Adam of the bible was God Himself.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
patrick967
Voting Style: Open Point System: Select Winner
Started: 8/6/2014 Category: Religion
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,149 times Debate No: 60068
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (40)
Votes (3)

 

telisw37

Pro

Luke 3:38.
patrick967

Con

"which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God." -Luke 3:38

If God had a son, he would not be God himself. Just like if I had a kid named Fred, I would not be Fred. Only in the case of Jesus would that ever make sense to some people (not me, though).

"And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." -Genesis 2:7

Adam was literally made of dust/dirt. He was not God.
Debate Round No. 1
telisw37

Pro

I first would like to thank my opponent for accepting this debate.
I must refute my opponent claim about the word 'FORMED'!
Formed=#3335 in Strongs or any Lexicon means squeezing into , the potter.
I must inform my opponent that the bible is a Hebrew/Greek document, and even with the King's James translation a wise, bible student will check out the actual meaning/usage the actual correct interpretation of the author writing the 4000+ year old document. I assure you that anyone who uses 21th century English to understand 4000 year old scrolls without deeper study, will babble every time.
Example #1. The word "TOUCH"/"KNOW" means knowledge, and hindsight, However in Hebrew 4000 years ago the word knew means: lay with a woman, meaning sex, with the ability to have children! (No hand'blow/j_b!) Notice Gen 3:3 Eve said touch the tree. However the Serpent/Satan tricked her, God's promise was that good and evil kings will come out of Eve's(Sex Organ+Knowing=Screwing!) royal bloodline of David. Remember virgin Mary!
3:3 But of the fruit 6529 of the tree 6086 which [is] in the midst 8432 of the garden 1588, God 430 hath said 559 8804, Ye shall not eat 398 8799 of it, neither shall ye touch 5060 8799 it, lest 6435 ye die 4191 8799.
Pronounce: naw-gah'

Strong: H5060

Orig: a primitive root; properly, to touch, i.e. lay the hand upon (for any purpose; euphem., to lie with a woman); by implication, to reach (figuratively, to arrive, acquire); violently, to strike (punish, defeat, destroy, etc.):--beat, (X be able to) bring (down), cast, come (nigh), draw near (nigh), get up, happen, join, near, plague, reach (up), smite, strike, touch.

Also I want to draw attention to the duel Hebrew meaning concering striking down and to punish.

I refute my opponents claim of IF GOD HAD A SON! Why is begotten used? Is my opponent claiming begotten is not about sex with a woman, however virgin Mary only had sex with the Holy Spirit to birth Jesus Christ.

  1. Genesis 5:4
  2. And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  1. Judges 8:30
  2. And Gideon had threescore and ten sons of his body begotten: for he had many wives.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  1. Psalm 2:7
  2. I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begottenthee.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  1. John 1:18
  2. No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  1. John 3:16
  2. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

  1. John 3:18
  2. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Sonof God.

1. I would like to ask my opponent to explain the word "begotten"?

2. Next did Adam keep His eyes closed when He walked with God in Eden the Garden of God?

3. Who was in Eden the Garden of God with the snake?

Ezekiel 28:13
Thou hast been in Edenthe garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Ezekiel 31:9
I have made him fair by the multitude of his branches: so that all the trees of Eden, that were in the garden of God, envied him.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

Next I ask my opponent to solve the riddle of Jesus Christ who was is God in Flesh! How is Christ a son of David, yet the God of David?

Matthew 22:45
If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Mark 12:37
David therefore himself calleth him Lord; and whence is he then his son? And the common people heard him gladly.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Luke 1:32
He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Luke 20:44
David therefore calleth him Lord, how is he then his son?
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Romans 1:3
Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of Davidaccording to the flesh;
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

Christ healed anyone who had faith that He was is a son of David born umbillical cord to umbillical cord from Adam to Noah to Abraham to Mary.

Matthew 1:20
But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Matthew 15:22
And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Matthew 20:30
And, behold, two blind men sitting by the way side, when they heard that Jesus passed by, cried out, saying, Have mercy on us, O Lord, thou son of David.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Matthew 20:31
And the multitude rebuked them, because they should hold their peace: but they cried the more, saying, Have mercy on us, O Lord, thou son of David.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Matthew 21:9
And the multitudes that went before, and that followed, cried, saying, Hosanna to the son of David: Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord; Hosanna in the highest.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Is Jesus wrong and my opponent correct?

13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

The root of David is the first man in David's family tree that had children.




patrick967

Con

Before I begin, I would like to say that I am in no way, shape, or form a biblical scholar, and I have no knowledge of Hebrew. I have read the Bible though, in case anyone was wondering.

My opponent doesn't appear to know the definition of formed, so here it is.
Formed- bring together parts or combine to create (something)[1]


I would like to address what my opponent said about the virgin Mary.
"however virgin Mary only had sex with the Holy Spirit to birth Jesus Christ." Maybe I'm confused here, but wouldn't that mean Mary wasn't a virgin? Doesn't human reproduction work that way?

Now I shall answer my opponent's questions.

1. Begotten is the past tense of "beget," which means: (typically of a man, sometimes of a man and a woman) bring (a child) into existence by the process of reproduction. [2]

2. Walking? What walking?

"And the Lord God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed. And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil." -Genesis 2:8-9

"And the Lord God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it. And the LordGod commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." -Genesis 2:15-17

3. Is this even relevant to whether or not God was Adam?

I don't even know what else to refute. I've made my case that has yet to be refuted and Pro has pretty much just quoted the Bible. Eagerly awaiting some arguments.
Debate Round No. 2
telisw37

Pro

I refute my opponents claim that he answered my questions. And formed in Hebrew has a different meaning. And trust me, no one assumed my opponent was is educated in Hebrew. Yes for the ignorant, The Holy Spirit did offer the sperm to Virgin Mary who gave birth to Christ. So beggotten means sex, call it the mystery of God. Who was in Eden the Garden of God? Adam of all of mankind? Or answer the riddle of Christ. How is Christ a son and God of David?

Formed=#3335 in Strongs or any Lexicon means squeezing into , the potter.


Strong's Exhaustive Concordance

earthen, fashion, form, frame, maker, potter, purpose

Probably identical with yatsar (through the squeezing into shape); ((compare yatsa')); to mould into a form; especially as a potter; figuratively, to determine (i.e. Form a resolution) -- X earthen, fashion, form, frame, make(-r), potter, purpose.


see HEBREW yatsar


see HEBREW yatsa'



Jesus claimed to be the root and offspring of David. Explain that please. You can not....................... Try Adam!


Revelation 5:5

And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Rootof David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations


Revelation 22:16

I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the rootand the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations


patrick967

Con

I apologize, I forgot to provide my sources last round.
[1]-https://www.google.com...
[2]-https://www.google.com...


"So begotten means sex, call it the mystery of God."
The "mystery of God" indeed! There is no possible explanation for Mary giving birth and still being a virgin. The only way you could possibly explain it is with "god works in mysterious ways," and that's the worst explanation for anything!


yatsar: to form, fashion

Original Word: יָצַר
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: yatsar
Phonetic Spelling: (yaw-tsar')
Short Definition: formed
(http://biblehub.com...)
(http://www.biblestudytools.com...)
(http://www.biblebigpicture.com...)
Debate Round No. 3
telisw37

Pro

I am still waiting for my opponent to make an argument! My opponent uses Google to research a 4000 year old document. I assert that one must seek correct data to gain understanding. I admit that 99.9% of all Christian religions agree with my opponent. However Satan deceives the whole world, not just part of it. Revelation 9:121. If one member of Abraham's or David's geneology man or woman (Mary) was killed before Christ was virgin born, then Christ could not fulfill scripture, in other words Satan would have been successful in killing God Himself! Remember the many attacks on the male Hebrews over the history of the world. Why did Hilter hate the Jews?

Eve is not the mother of all human beings. She is the mother of Israel and great great............. grandmother of Abraham, Isaac. David. and Mary the virgin mother of Christ the Alpha of the bible. Meanings Adam returned virgin born through a daughter Eve a baby born God with us.

John 1:8 Says no man has seen God at anytime. Yet Adam walked with God and saw God. Gen2:1 Says the host=people were finished. Then God formed=Squeezed into the form of Adam. (Strongs #3335 formed = squeezed into, the potter.) Adam had a special job to til the ground=control the weather. Gen_2:10, And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads. Only the 99.9% of religions in error teaches God made and named nations without the different races indigenous to the lands created. Religious evolution is an oxymoron! (Or just Moron!)

My opponent is suggesting that the land of Havilah was created with no people to dwell there, notice the gold!
Gen_2:11, The name of the first is Pison: that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold; (THE FIRST GOLDEN COW?)
Gen_2:12, And the gold of that land is good: there is bdellium and the onyx stone. (PEARLS FOR PIGS?)
Gen_2:13, And the name of the second river is Gihon: the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia/Cush/Africa. (ADAM WAS RED RUDDY DID HIS FAMILY TURN BLACK?)
Gen_2:14, And the name of the third river is Hiddekel: that is it which goeth toward the east of Assyria. And the fourth river is Euphrates.(NOTICE IRAN=ASSYRIA NOT OF ADAM OR ISRAEL.................................)
Gen_2:15, And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.

Notice that gold and pearls are outside Eden. Did God make gold for golden calf's and cast His pearls before swine?

Christ is the Alpha of the bible and the Root of David. Rev_5:5, And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
Rev_5:6, And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
Rev_5:7, And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.
Second witness: Rev_22:13, I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
Rev_22:14, Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Rev_22:15, For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
Rev_22:16, I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
Notice that in order for Christ to be the Root of David means He was is Adam as well.
Do you see the fake lamb standing being allowed to deceive the churches?
The Root of David is sitting.
Immaculate conception is another religious error or bold faced lie! You choose.



When did God form Himself?

Isa_43:10, Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. See Genesis 2:7
Isa_43:11, I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.
Isa_43:12, I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed, when there was no strange god among you: therefore ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, that I am God.
Isa_43:13, Yea, before the day was I am he; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand: I will work, and who shall let it?
Isa_43:14, Thus saith the LORD, your redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; For your sake I have sent to Babylon, and have brought down all their nobles, and the Chaldeans, whose cry is in the ships.
Isa_43:15, I am the LORD, your Holy One, the creator of Israel, your King.
My opponent cries sources!
I use the Companion Bible
The Strongs Concordance
Nelsons Book of Bible Charts and Maps


patrick967

Con

I made my argument in the first round with Genesis 2:7, and it has yet to be refuted.

"And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."

Yes, I use Google, but you're not here to criticize me about how I debate or my sources. You're here to debate me on whether or not Adam was your god. Genesis 2:7 isn't the only thing against that. The Christian god is called a "trinity god," because of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. I have never heard of any church preaching that Adam was God.

And no, you can't say God formed himself. No one has ever formed themselves, and don't give me that "God is omnipotent" stuff. He wouldn't exist, so he wouldn't be omnipotent.

My opponent also claims that I suggested that "the land of Havilah was created with no people to dwell there, notice the gold!" I never suggested anything like that! If anything, I'm suggesting that absolutely nothing in the Bible ever happened.

My arguments are what I'm suggesting. All you have to do is read them without thinking of a secret meaning behind them.

Debate Round No. 4
telisw37

Pro

I refute my opponents entire argument totally, because the creation of mankind in Genesis 1:26 is not the same as when God formed the man to til the ground in Genesis2:7. And yes I have refuted you in past rounds and you ignored the facts.

Now my opponent claims the bible is false. Then please explain in your closing why do you debate the bible? Because only a fool would debate the reality of Mother Goose.

I refute my opponent's claim that nothing in the bible is true. Because of the Nation of Israel and the Jewish people. If the bible is false how did it fortell Israel getting their nation back?

Christian god? Christians do not follow the bible or the God written of in the scriptures.

And the word omipotent means all powerful so God did exactly what He said.

Your arguement is full of errors, and I see no meaning or secrets.
patrick967

Con

We're obviously both as stubborn as mules about our opposing religious views. And no, this:

"Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” -Genesis 1:26

Does not refute anything. It's your god saying he'll make mankind in his (our?) image.

And yes, I claim the bible is false. Because it is. There's no possible way that Mary was a virgin or that Noah's Ark ever happened. "If it's false, how did it fortell Isreal getting their nation back?" Dumb luck. They got their nation stolen and they're gonna want it back.

Christians don't follow the Bible or the God written of in it? Really? Is that why the Bible is Christianity's Holy Book? Is that why you've quoted the Bible so many times?

(I'm aware of the definition of "omnipotent." But one cannot be omnipotent if one doesn't exist yet.)


Debate Round No. 5
40 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by telisw37 2 years ago
telisw37
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
Posted by telisw37 2 years ago
telisw37
Ask yourself where was Christ during the time of Abraham? We'll half of Christ was in the nut/sperm sack of Abraham and the other half was in Sara's womb! Simple false teachers make the simple truth a lie!
Posted by rthomas370 2 years ago
rthomas370
Most of what you're saying doesn't make sense... let's just agree to disagree cause you seem very close minded.. I give you a verse that couldn't be more clear and you just say I'm wrong.
Posted by telisw37 2 years ago
telisw37
Well the bible says Christ came umbilical cord to umbilical cord from Adam to Christ. Alpha and Omega. Fake Christians deny Christ was here in the flesh in the beginning , they claim immaculate conception , Duh,
Posted by telisw37 2 years ago
telisw37
More pet milk served lukewarm, they ate nothing, Eve had sex with Satan and then Adam had sloppy seconds.
Posted by rthomas370 2 years ago
rthomas370
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.
John1.14

The only son: Jesus Christ
Posted by rthomas370 2 years ago
rthomas370
"The word" is Jesus. That is why it says "and the word became flesh and dwelt among us."
Posted by rthomas370 2 years ago
rthomas370
And Jesus was there with God in the beginning. That's why it says "let US make man in OUR IMAGE." Like I said before...you gotta study the scripture and not just read it.
Posted by rthomas370 2 years ago
rthomas370
Both those verses ate misinterpreted...1 Timothy 2:14 is saying that eve was the one who was tempted and deceived. Therefore she is at fault, but Adam still ate the fruit. That is why God punished both man and woman. Woman with child bearing and man with hard labor.

Read revelations 13:8 again. It is saying that the names were written in the book of life before the foundation of the world. Jesus didn't die before the foundation of the world. You obviously read the scripture but you don't study it...
Posted by telisw37 2 years ago
telisw37
Try John 1:1 who was with God in the beginning? Who made all things, nothing was made without all of Mankind? Mankind was their own light? Sorry only Adam was there. You are just wrong.
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by AlternativeDavid 2 years ago
AlternativeDavid
telisw37patrick967
Who won the debate:-Vote Checkmark
Reasons for voting decision: Pro had burden of proof, but seemed to think Con had it. Pro spent the whole debate trying to disprove Con, while not making his own argument.
Vote Placed by 9spaceking 2 years ago
9spaceking
telisw37patrick967
Who won the debate:-Vote Checkmark
Reasons for voting decision: pro, rather than supporting his case, tried to refuted con's. His mission was to prove adam=God, and he failed
Vote Placed by MrJosh 2 years ago
MrJosh
telisw37patrick967
Who won the debate:-Vote Checkmark
Reasons for voting decision: PRO instigated this debate, and held the burden to supports his case, but spent the bulk of the debate sending CON down rabbit holes. PRO never supported his case; debate to CON.