The Instigator
UtherPenguin
Pro (for)
Winning
5 Points
The Contender
FreedomJosh
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

The Allied Forces are most at fault for causing World War Two

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
UtherPenguin
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/8/2014 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 817 times Debate No: 64805
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (9)
Votes (1)

 

UtherPenguin

Pro

Haven't seen any historical debates all too often so I decided to make one myself.

Here is the format of the debate:

Round One: Acceptance of Terms (If Con finds the terms unreasonable then they may be altered only if backed by reason itself)
Round Two: Opening Arguments
Round Three: Rebuttals
Round Four: Counter-Rebuttals
Round Five: Conclusion Arguments

Terms:

Allied Forces: The counties that opposed the Central Powers in World War One and eventually the Axis Powers in World War Two, this includes: France and French colonies, Th British Empire and Commonwealth, The Soviet Union, The United States, The Republic of China (not Maoist China), Yugoslavia, Poland and Czechoslovakia.

Axis Powers: The alliance of countries that opposed the Allies in World War Two. This includes: Nazi Germany, Italy, Japanese Empire, Ethiopia, Libya and Italian Somaliland.

Central Powers: An Alliance of countries that opposed the Allied Forces in WW1, consisted of Austria-Hungary, The Ottoman Empire, Germany and Bulgaria.

World War Two: A global conflict between the Allied Forces and Axis Powers. Started with the Nazi invasion of Poland in 1939 and ended with the surrender of Japan in 1945. This does not include the Second Sino-Japanese War .

World War One: A global conflict between the Central Powers and Allied Forces. Started after the July Crisis of 1914 and ended after the surrender of Germany in 1918.
FreedomJosh

Con

Before I inform you of how it was the Axis Powers who caused World War 2 I think there is something you need to know, In November 1918 a German Officer being treated for wounds from a poison gas attack received word of Germany's surrender, he then layed in his bed and cried he vowed revenge for Germanys defeat the name of that man was Adolf Hitler.
Before World War 2 Germany had been secretly breaking it's treaty with the Allies by building tanks (such as the Panzer 4) and lying about the weight of the Bismark (which was probably the best battleship in the world) By 1939 German forces had began invading Poland & France, and... do I really need to explain the Halocaust
Anyways all wars start with one side firing the first shot and in WW2 Germany fired the first shot and as a matter of fact Axis Powers fired the first shot in WW1 too.
Debate Round No. 1
UtherPenguin

Pro

First to start off with the Treaty Of Versailles was an unjust example of "Victor's Justice". This was when the Allies showed favoritism and leniency to their own part when it came to starting World War One but remained hypocritical and harsh to the Central Powers, especially Germany. Claiming that the Germans were the main blame to World War One.

However how do most historians agree on what started World War One? The assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria-Hungary. Despite the fact that Austria-Hungarians were on side with the Central Powers when the war started. As well the fact that the assassins were a group of young Serbian Nationalists. Serbia was also on side with Russia with the war that followed and were hence forth a part of the allied forces.

This is what made the Versailles treaty hypocritical and unfair. The verdicts of the Versailles treaty concluded that it was completely Germany's fault for causing the war despite the fact that it was an Allied country would started it in the first place. In fact here were the terms for Serbia in the treaty :"Romania, Montenegro and Serbia - Should be evacuated and Serbia should have an outlet to the sea "
They completely ignored the contribution Serbia had to starting the war in the first place.

The inflation that was caused from the debt that the Weimar Republic had to pay was so high that the German mark had lost virtually all of it's value. By the end of the 20's, one dollar (US) was equivalent to 1 000,000,000,000 German Marks. This all while Serbia left the Versailles Treaty relatively unpunished.

The crisis that Germany was going through during the time of the Weimar Republic actually facilitated the rise of Hitler. Remember Hitler was elected democratically, however why would Germany elect someone with such extreme views? Simply put it: The government were in such chaos that the people were looking for someone to fix all of their problems. Crisis and instability facilitates the rise of dictators. This was the case with Napoleon for example.
Most people would not have listen to Hitler had such crisis in Germany never happens. In fact the Kaiser may not have abdicated if this crisis never happens. And what started this crisis in the first place that allowed Hitler to rise to power was all rooted from the Versailles Treaty.
If the allies were more just in their verdict at the Paris Conference then the war could have been prevented.
Sources:

1. http://www.historyonthenet.com...
2. http://www.historytoday.com...
3. http://www.johndclare.net...
4. http://www.markedbyteachers.com...
5. http://en.wikipedia.org...
6. http://en.wikipedia.org...
7. http://www.bbc.co.uk...
FreedomJosh

Con

Well The Austrian-Hungarian Government had been been urged by Germany to start a war, and the Assasination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand was carried by the Black Hand a secret siberian society, thus the Siberian Government had nothing to do with it. The Austrian-Hungarian really didn't like Archduke Franz Ferdinand and saw his assasination as nothing more than the excuse for the war they and their German allies wanted. As a matter of fact while the invading troops got into position the Austrian-Hungarian Government made several unbelievable demands from Siberia, when Siberia sent the a letter agreeing to the demands Franz Josef refused to read until it was to late.
And as for World War 2 it was the Nazi's crave for power that started it. Who would be at fault for war the the side that didn't want another great war or the side that wanted to rule the world?
Debate Round No. 2
UtherPenguin

Pro

UtherPenguin forfeited this round.
FreedomJosh

Con

I'm not saying one was at fault I'm just saying wars start when one side fires first. The Axis Powers fired first. Actually before WW2 the German people actually had things going well for them. This goes to show when people such as the Nazis come to power we cannot allow them to stand.
Debate Round No. 3
UtherPenguin

Pro

UtherPenguin forfeited this round.
FreedomJosh

Con

FreedomJosh forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
UtherPenguin

Pro

My apologies for my previous forfeits, to make up I will put my rebuttal and my conclusion at this round.

"Well The Austrian-Hungarian Government had been been urged by Germany to start a war"

The Germans did not necessarily urge the Austrian to wars, they just approved what would be considered a "blank check". That if Austria-Hungary wanted to mobilize against Serbia than they would have the Kaiser's approval.

" and the Assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand was carried by the Black Hand a secret siberian society, thus the Siberian Government had nothing to do with it."

Serbians were still behind the assassination, while not the best justification for war it still is a reason. The Versailles Treaty failed to acknowledge Serbia's part in starting the war in the first place.

" The Austrian-Hungarian really didn't like Archduke Franz Ferdinand and saw his assassination as nothing more than the excuse for the war they and their German allies wanted."

Not all of Austro-Hungary was in approval for starting the war, the Hungarians were mostly opposed to war. They wanted a peaceful negotiation with Serbia. Franz Ferdinand himself was arguable the greatest voice of defence for the Serbs in the empire.. Yet what did the Serbs do to him? They killed him.

"And as for World War 2 it was the Nazi's crave for power that started it. Who would be at fault for war the the side that didn't want another great war or the side that wanted to rule the world?"

My last rebuttal and my conclusion is that the Allies were at fault for the injustice of the Versailles treaty. Had the Versailles treaty never happened the Kaiser would have likely not abdicated. The Kaisers abdication and the slew of crisis's that the Weimar Republic had to deal with were what sowed the seeds to Hitler's rise to power, all of this caused by the injustice of the Versailles Treaty.

Thank you for the debate, I apologise forfeiting the last few rounds, I am interested in seeing what your last argument is.
FreedomJosh

Con

FreedomJosh forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
9 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 9 records.
Posted by MizuneKurosaki13 1 year ago
MizuneKurosaki13
Weren't the allies the ones who defeated Germany, then gave him an unfair treaty and debt that he had to pay back right after a war ($30 Billion)? I think that's why WWII started in the first place; because Germany was looking for a way out of their horrible debt and they let Hitler manipulate them for his own personal ambitions.
Posted by Atheist-Independent 2 years ago
Atheist-Independent
Representation of nerdy history debates! Thank you!
Posted by FreedomJosh 2 years ago
FreedomJosh
I'm sorry for missing the last round my internet has been really slow and was unable to get to it
Posted by cheyennebodie 2 years ago
cheyennebodie
The reason there was a WW2 because the allies did not defeat Germany. Both sides just quit. Germany was on the verge of collapse. That is why they accepted the treaty of Versaille.But the system that started WW1 was left in place. And that system gave rise to Adolf Hitler. Now France was also to blame. They put burdens on Germany that gave Hitler a platform .

We never had a WW3 in that area because we dismantled Germany's ability to wage war till that generation is now dead. The German people today have a different attitude now.That worked in Japan also.
Posted by FreedomJosh 2 years ago
FreedomJosh
Actually WW1 officially began when Austrian shells bombarded Siberian troops and The Emperor of Austria-Hungary tried to call off the attack but it was to late
Posted by Emilrose 2 years ago
Emilrose
Oh, too bad I didn't see this.

By invading Poland and Czechoslovakia Germany was responsible for the initiation and World War Two. Violation of law made a response from allied forces necessary.
Posted by carriead20 2 years ago
carriead20
Actually the central powers did not fire the first shot in WW1, it was the Serbians assassinating, Francis Ferdinand, the Archduke of Austria-Hungary.
Posted by FreedomJosh 2 years ago
FreedomJosh
My bad when I said Axis Powers also fired the first shot I meant central powers
Posted by Zack95 2 years ago
Zack95
yes we should have just let Hitler do his own thing in Europe. it was our fault. i would debate but i would not have time.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Gabe1e 2 years ago
Gabe1e
UtherPenguinFreedomJoshTied
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Total points awarded:50 
Reasons for voting decision: Conduct to neither for forfeiting the same amount of times, arguments to Pro, and sources.