The Instigator
Lboomboom
Pro (for)
Losing
3 Points
The Contender
Danielle
Con (against)
Winning
46 Points

The Allies are mostly to blame for World War 2

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/12/2010 Category: Politics
Updated: 6 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 10,114 times Debate No: 13645
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (3)
Votes (7)

 

Lboomboom

Pro

Lets make it plain and simple.

The allies>the treaty>hitler in power> ww2
Danielle

Con

Thanks, Pro.

Essentially my opponent's argument is that the allies of WWI, mainly the Triple Entente - United Kingdom, France and Russia - are to blame for WWII indirectly [1]. I'm assuming "the treaty" he refers to is the Treaty of Versailles, which was one of the repercussions of WWI. Essentially the treaty punished Germany by taking away land, significantly decreasing its military, stifling Germany's economy by taking away all its territory, forcing Germany to accept sole blame for WWI, etc [2].

The Germans, naturally, being unfairly solely blamed and so harshly punished began to love Hitler who not only spoke out against the treaty, but actually violated it in multiple ways to demonstrate its irrelevance [3]. Eventually Hitler's invasion of Poland in September 1939 is finally what instigated Churchill to declare war (what became WWII) on Germany [4].

However the breach in my opponent's logic regards his false accusation of who is to blame for the Treaty of Versailles. As you can see, he attributes it to the Allies because they were the ones who imposed it on Germany, which eventually helped Hitler rise to power. My contention is that the Allies are not responsible for the treaty - that many countries are equally if not more responsible - including Austria and Germany itself.

Indeed there are many underlying causes for WWI, including but not limited to competition among various nations in regard to imperialistic conquests and military, as well as good old fashioned nationalism/racism and wanting power and prestige. Additionally, many alliances formed had people on edge regarding a possible war; it seemed that everyone taking sides and strategizing suggested war was imminent. However the "straw that broke the camel's back" was the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand, heir to the Austrian-Hungarian throne [5]. His assassination by a Serbian nationalist precipitated Austria-Hungary's declaration of war against Serbia. This caused Germany and Austria-Hungary, and countries allied with Serbia (the Triple Alliance Powers) to declare war on each other, starting World War I [6].

As you can see, the allies did not directly instigate WWI. If anything, Serbia and Austria-Hungary are to blame as being the catalysts for WWI, meaning my opponent's contention has no merit.

A few other things to mention were that there were more causes to WWII than Hitler; for instance Japan invading China in 1937 under the leadership of the Kwantung Army [7]. Another factor was the economic situation - most notably the effects of the Great Depression from the 1930s felt all over the world. And finally, even if you could somehow pretend that the Allies were actually to blame for the Treaty of Versailles, you cannot blame the Allies for (a) Hitler's psychotic personality and decision to manipulate and become a tyrannical and mass murdering dictator; or (b) the people's gullibility and eagerness to follow Hitler just because he was persuasive.

That said, I thank my opponent for this opportunity to debate and wish him good luck in the upcoming rounds.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org...
[2] http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk...
[3] http://www.historyplace.com...
[4] http://www.2worldwar2.com...
[5] http://en.wikipedia.org...
[6] Johnson, Lonnie (1989). Introducing Austria: A Short History (Studies in Austrian Literature, Culture, and Thought). Ariadne Press. pp. 52–54.
[7] http://en.wikipedia.org...
Debate Round No. 1
Lboomboom

Pro

From what i realize is that after the allies DEFEATED germany, and germany was required to take ALL BLAME for the war. because the treaty of versailles signed after ww1 treated Germany very harshly, not to mention it was greatly resented by the German people. germany's state after ww1 left the germans to feel hopeless. now nazism was pretty popular in germany at that time. Nazism still appealed to many germans as all hopes were lost. the promises made by hitler himself directly attacks the actions of the allies. Hitlers aims in the war involves the following:

-To unite German speaking people (using NSD which had been denied at the Treaty of Versailles.

-He wanted lebensraum (living space) in order to gain self-sufficiency (autarky)

-He wanted to dominate Europe and the World

To achieve any of these aims would involve breaking the Treaty of Versailles (28/6/1919), and this could lead to war.

therefore, if he were to even have these aims it would be because of the treaty CREATED by the allies. not to mention that the treaty was the key to hitlers victory in the german election.

Now hitlers intentions may have been also a factor for ww2, the total cause of ww2 may be several factors combined. such as,

-The harshness of the Treaty of Versailles (28th June, 1919) on Germany (i.e. Land losses, Reparations, War Guilt)
-The failure of the League of the Nations to Keep peace, Bring about disarmament
-Hitler's aggression(His aims, His actions)
-The aggression of the other powers:

Italy – Abyssinia (1935), Rome-Berlin Axis, Anti-Commintern Pact, Albania

Japan – Manchuria (1931), Anti-Commintern Pact (November, 1937)

Russia – Nazi-Soviet Pact, Invasion of Poland

-The democracies were too passive

USA – isolation

France – would not do anything without Britain's support

Britain – sympathetic towards Germany, e.g. Anglo-German Naval
Treaty (1935) and later appeased her (May/June 1937 – March 1939)

Hence the failure of the allies to prevent ww2, the allies are mostly responsible for ww2. It is because of the allies demands, passiveness, and failure to keep peace that led to another war.

Now you may say that germany immediately caused ww2 as they invaded poland in September 1, 1939, but think about what caused germany to start off ww2. Then think about that caused hitler and the germans to have fascist beliefs. think about how hitler was able to hold political power. then think about what the allies have done after ww1. It is because of the state of germany left by the allies that let someone like hitler gain political power. I mean, how else would he appeal to the audience during his speeches? what else but the use of propaganda, german pride, and the resentment of the treaty of versailles? why wouldn't the german people listen to him when the allies set up a democratic government who signed the treaty of versailles greatly resented by them? i have many questions. enlighten me.
Danielle

Con

Thanks, Pro.

Essentially my opponent did not refute any of my case; in fact, she didn't even address my main argument. To re-cap her position, the allies are to blame for WWII because they imposed the harsh Treaty of Versailles which helped Hitler rise to power. I've contended that the Treaty of Versailles *would not have been created in the first place* had there not been WWI. In that case, we must look to who began WWI - with an emphasis on Serbia, Germany and Austria-Hungary (non-allies). Had the Serbian nationalist not shot Archduke Ferdinand, Austria-Hungary would not have declared war on Serbia, and not have led to the conflict within the Triple Alliance Powers ultimately leading to the declaration of war on each other, hence WWI. Without WWI there would have been no treaty. Without the treaty, my opponent's argument wouldn't hold.

Additionally, I pointed out that the allies nor the treaty could be considered responsible for what Hitler as an individual chose to do with his life and career. For instance, while the German sentiments at this time were understandable, consider the allies' efforts to maintain peace. Hitler violated the Treaty of Versailles innumerable times, i.e., by withdrawing from the League of Nations and beefing up Germany's military for example. Still the allies were hesitant to go to war, and Hitler knew this ultimately deciding to push the envelope and see just how much he could get away with [1]. It wasn't until Hitler took it upon himself to invade Poland that the allies responded by declaring war. In other words, they avoided the ultimate conflict for as long as possible, so it's unfair to lay most of the blame for the events on them.

Moreover both my opponent and I acknowledge other causes for WWII, including but not limited to competition for resources, problems with territorial disputes, a response to communism, the economic turmoil as a result of the Great Depression, the rise of fascism, European civil war, problems with the League of Nations, the Japanese invasion of other countries (China, Soviet Union, Mongolia) etc. [2]. Therefore it's irresponsible to suggest that the allies are mostly to blame, when in fact there were innumerable underlying causes separate from these powers.

In short, Pro has to prove that the allies are responsible for the treaty despite them not instigating WWI (the reason the treaty existed), and that the allies should accept responsibility for Hitler's barbaric choices in violating the treaty and subsequent actions (like imprisoning the Jews) even though they were trying to turn a blind eye and avoid war all-together. She must also prove that the allies position in all this was more influential than the other combined factors leading up to this horrific war. Thanks again, and good luck!

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org...
[2] http://en.wikipedia.org...
Debate Round No. 2
Lboomboom

Pro

Lboomboom forfeited this round.
Danielle

Con

Well, that's a shame. Please extend my arguments.
Debate Round No. 3
Lboomboom

Pro

Lboomboom forfeited this round.
Danielle

Con

Please extend my arguments.
Debate Round No. 4
Lboomboom

Pro

Lboomboom forfeited this round.
Danielle

Con

Please extend all of my arguments. Thank you.
Debate Round No. 5
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by Postup10101 6 years ago
Postup10101
cough u mean girl cough cough.
Posted by TheAtheistAllegiance 6 years ago
TheAtheistAllegiance
This was an easy one. The Lwerd guy definitely won.
Posted by Danielle 6 years ago
Danielle
Whoops! Sorry, Pro, for referring to you as a guy. I'm a girl too and hate when people automatically assume I'm a guy -- I usually don't do it, but I was mistaken this time. My apologies :)
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Vote Placed by ethopia619 6 years ago
ethopia619
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